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Replies to '06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"'

 
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October 19, 2005, 4:48 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: gcnjustin

I'm still here... and thanks for the question!

Unfortunately, it would be pretty close to impossible to really get into the Bible issues in any deep fashion on a message board like this one. There's just too much to discuss. However, I'll give you a short answer and tell you where you can learn more.

Monogamous gay couples weren't a part of the culture in which the Bible was written, so the Bible doesn't take a position on them at all. We see the Bible condemning gang rape, idolatrous orgies, and the like, but no gay couples are mentioned at all. (There are some who believe that a few gay couples are mentioned in Scripture, but it's far from universally accepted.)

However, there are other passages that provide strong ammunition for the pro-gay-marriage argument. One example is Romans 13:8-10, which makes it clear that sin is *always* evidenced by a lack of love. Adultery, theft, murder... all of these are unloving actions. But there is nothing about a committed same-sex relationship to make it less loving than if one of the partners were of the opposite sex. Therefore, if we say that gender alone is the defining characteristic, you'd have to find a very clever way to work your way out of the very plain statement in Romans 13.

That's one of many examples. On my organization's website (gaychristian.net) we have several Bible-related resources that deal with these issues. If you want a very in-depth discussion of the issue from both sides, check out our "great debate" page, which goes into way more detail than you probably ever wanted. :)

I hope this helps! Incidentally, we also have some resources for moms who are struggling to come to terms with the coming out of their kids, as well as a bunch of other things. Check it out if you're interested.

God bless!

--Justin
 Hi Justin:

Thank you for your answer.  Not sure if you're still here or not but thought I'd respond.

I just looked up that reference again and can't get around it.

I'm using the King James Version of 1611

"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves.  Who changed the truth of Godinto a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever.  Amen.   For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections;  for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature;  And likewise also the men, leaving their natural use of the women, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." 

I think this pretty much desribes homosexual behaviour as something that goes against nature.  It doesn't mention that if they were doing this in love, then it would not be a sin.   It seems to me that the act itself is called a 'vile affection' . 

As much as I would like to condone the gay lifestyle and be all-accepting, I am not in a position to say it's right when God sure seems to be saying it's not.  I hope you understand where I'm coming from.  You seem like you would. 


 
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October 19, 2005, 5:08 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: gcnjustin

I'm still here... and thanks for the question!

Unfortunately, it would be pretty close to impossible to really get into the Bible issues in any deep fashion on a message board like this one. There's just too much to discuss. However, I'll give you a short answer and tell you where you can learn more.

Monogamous gay couples weren't a part of the culture in which the Bible was written, so the Bible doesn't take a position on them at all. We see the Bible condemning gang rape, idolatrous orgies, and the like, but no gay couples are mentioned at all. (There are some who believe that a few gay couples are mentioned in Scripture, but it's far from universally accepted.)

However, there are other passages that provide strong ammunition for the pro-gay-marriage argument. One example is Romans 13:8-10, which makes it clear that sin is *always* evidenced by a lack of love. Adultery, theft, murder... all of these are unloving actions. But there is nothing about a committed same-sex relationship to make it less loving than if one of the partners were of the opposite sex. Therefore, if we say that gender alone is the defining characteristic, you'd have to find a very clever way to work your way out of the very plain statement in Romans 13.

That's one of many examples. On my organization's website (gaychristian.net) we have several Bible-related resources that deal with these issues. If you want a very in-depth discussion of the issue from both sides, check out our "great debate" page, which goes into way more detail than you probably ever wanted. :)

I hope this helps! Incidentally, we also have some resources for moms who are struggling to come to terms with the coming out of their kids, as well as a bunch of other things. Check it out if you're interested.

God bless!

--Justin
Hey Justin:  I reread your post and think I understand better what you're saying. 

However....

"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleannes through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves;  Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and served the creature more than the Creator who is blessed forever.  Amen.  For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections;  for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature;  And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet".



You're saying this is a sin because it doesn't have love, I believe.  But the words' unnatural', used a few times, stick way out.  As a Christian, you probably believe we were born into sin and it is natural for us to sin.  Then why  did the writer use the word 'unnatural' at all?  If it is totally inkeeping with our 'nature' to sin, then, the act of homosexuality is very natural in this regard.

However, it sure seems that God is calling it unnatural because He created human bodies to perform certain functions, sodomy not being one of them, and therefore unnatural.




 


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