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Replies to '06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"'
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October 19, 2005, 1:47 pm PDT
 Quote From: a31g49 Why is it so hard for so many on this site to understand that not everyone is a christian and not everyone is a born again christian.
I happen to be Native American and am proud of my heritage-- ethnic and spiritual. My culture doesn't condem people for living how they are made. We don't believe we own our children-- meaning we can not chose their path for them-- we can only guide them.
We have nothing in common with fundamentalist christians when it comes to belief systems. Many in my community have embraced a spirituality (christianity) which DESTROYED our culture and way of life. It's a very sad thing. But I suppose when you are confronted with "Convert or die" many do choose to accept the conquerers way of life.
So, when you all start going on and on about what your god wants from all people of the earth, all I can do is shake my head at your ignorance. For isn't that what you do when you are confronted with traditions different from your own?
I believe the Earth is the mother of us all, and that we are destroying our mother. Can't you hear her screams? But do I tell you SUV driving, 6000 square foot house living, polluting non-bleievers that you our murdering our mother? Isn't that more important that who someone loves? No, I don't. Not generally, anyway.
My tribe has a cultural history of accepting all among us as brothers and sisters. Including those who do not fit into traditional gender roles. Including those who are attracted to those of the same sex. It's all around us on mother earth. All mammal species show same sex attraction. While it is not the norm, it is not unnatural.
You do not get the right, because you call yourself a christian to comdemn people who believe other than you do. And you sure don't get the right to make the laws that affect us all according to your religion.
You surely do not have the right to impose self-hatred and self-loathing on people being true to their born selves.
I'm so thankful I live in a part of the country where I do not have people like the visitors on this board trying to convert me to their religion.
And all of this judgement day stuff is a little confusing. I remember that less than 20 years ago, that kind of reasoning was only used by doomsday cultists like Jim Jones or David Koresh. It's frightening to me how many seemingly sane Americans have fallen into the doomsday cult mentality.
I could really get into the jesus rhetoric if more pople who claimed to be christians quoted the Sermon on the Mount insteas of leviticus.
I am not gay, but I have had the pleasure of knowing many gays, lesbians and transgendered people throughout my lifetime. I am the richer in spirit for it.
And I almost for got. For those illogical people who claim that god doesn't make mistakes? What about people born transgendered? In the US, the birth rate of people with ambigous genitalia (intersex) is about 2% of live births. So those people are not mistakes? I don't believe they are and according to your logic, you shouldn't, either. But then that doesn't fit your worldview of two genders and strict gender based societal roles.
I long for the day we all get past out superstitious knee jerk reactions to those who are different. I am hopeful though. It was only a little over a hundred years ago that the official US government position on my people was 'the only good indian is a dead indian.'
Maybe someday the attitudes I'm seeing here toward those who are gay/lebian/bisexual/intersex/transgendered are just as abhored by mainstream society.
I might have to do some prostelytizing of my own, if I had to face this type of self-righteousness on a daily basis. I am so glad some one else has a problem with the fact that so many on this site seem to act like everyone is a christian. I am also not a christian, I am a pagan and parts of my familly have been druids for as long as Irish ancestors existed. Religion should not have to a determining factor as to the validity or worthiness of a persons existance. If god or in my case the gods,(the great spirit), had a problem with gay people he would not have created them. Lets not forget, the bible was writen by men, and not God himself. It is also quite apparent that the bible is percieved by pretty much anyone who reads it in the way they choose to see it. You so called chistians who act in a way quite contrary to what I'm lead to believe the bible is says is rightous and good usually call yourself the best christians. Maybe its time to reread your bible and hear what Jesus was actually saying and try much harder to love, accept and forgive others who maybe don't live as you choose them to. Remember forgiveness is for your God and not for you as writen in the bible. Wouldn't it be a real eye opener if you got to your pearly gates to find acceptance and christ like behaviour was the true test to get in. I can't help but wonder why so many feel the need to treat people so badly just because they were born with different needs and feelings. These can't be reprogramed as Angela's mother stated, and the reason you can't reprogram is because the creator didn't intend for others to undo what he has built and done. Lets all try much harder to accept others and not be so quick to judge out of fear. We're all here to dance at this party we call life and even though everyone doesn't have the same drummer, its all the same dance. Time to love others for who they are and not for who they do. If I had been judging people for thier sexuality all my life so many of my friends ,I would have had to turn my back on for being gay, and I would have been the looser for it. I only ask that people try to be more like your Jesus and be more understanding and less critical. Let the judgement come from the only one who has that job description, GOD! |
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October 19, 2005, 2:10 pm PDT
Quote From: a31g49 Why is it so hard for so many on this site to understand that not everyone is a christian and not everyone is a born again christian.
I happen to be Native American and am proud of my heritage-- ethnic and spiritual. My culture doesn't condem people for living how they are made. We don't believe we own our children-- meaning we can not chose their path for them-- we can only guide them.
We have nothing in common with fundamentalist christians when it comes to belief systems. Many in my community have embraced a spirituality (christianity) which DESTROYED our culture and way of life. It's a very sad thing. But I suppose when you are confronted with "Convert or die" many do choose to accept the conquerers way of life.
So, when you all start going on and on about what your god wants from all people of the earth, all I can do is shake my head at your ignorance. For isn't that what you do when you are confronted with traditions different from your own?
I believe the Earth is the mother of us all, and that we are destroying our mother. Can't you hear her screams? But do I tell you SUV driving, 6000 square foot house living, polluting non-bleievers that you our murdering our mother? Isn't that more important that who someone loves? No, I don't. Not generally, anyway.
My tribe has a cultural history of accepting all among us as brothers and sisters. Including those who do not fit into traditional gender roles. Including those who are attracted to those of the same sex. It's all around us on mother earth. All mammal species show same sex attraction. While it is not the norm, it is not unnatural.
You do not get the right, because you call yourself a christian to comdemn people who believe other than you do. And you sure don't get the right to make the laws that affect us all according to your religion.
You surely do not have the right to impose self-hatred and self-loathing on people being true to their born selves.
I'm so thankful I live in a part of the country where I do not have people like the visitors on this board trying to convert me to their religion.
And all of this judgement day stuff is a little confusing. I remember that less than 20 years ago, that kind of reasoning was only used by doomsday cultists like Jim Jones or David Koresh. It's frightening to me how many seemingly sane Americans have fallen into the doomsday cult mentality.
I could really get into the jesus rhetoric if more pople who claimed to be christians quoted the Sermon on the Mount insteas of leviticus.
I am not gay, but I have had the pleasure of knowing many gays, lesbians and transgendered people throughout my lifetime. I am the richer in spirit for it.
And I almost for got. For those illogical people who claim that god doesn't make mistakes? What about people born transgendered? In the US, the birth rate of people with ambigous genitalia (intersex) is about 2% of live births. So those people are not mistakes? I don't believe they are and according to your logic, you shouldn't, either. But then that doesn't fit your worldview of two genders and strict gender based societal roles.
I long for the day we all get past out superstitious knee jerk reactions to those who are different. I am hopeful though. It was only a little over a hundred years ago that the official US government position on my people was 'the only good indian is a dead indian.'
Maybe someday the attitudes I'm seeing here toward those who are gay/lebian/bisexual/intersex/transgendered are just as abhored by mainstream society.
I might have to do some prostelytizing of my own, if I had to face this type of self-righteousness on a daily basis. I am so sad for you that you have been treated in a wrong manner by those who call themselves Christians. Before you decide I am a fundamentalist nut, let me just say I am the sister of an openly homosexual male who I love with all of my heart. My best friend has also been living an openly lesbian lifestyle for the past 18 years and I still love her like a sister without judging her. I am also 1/16 Choctaw and finally I am a true Christian. Basically what the world calls Christians are religious people who don't exemplify Jesus. If they or you read the Bible you would see that Jesus did not hang out with the religious people of His day and was often accused by those same religious people for hanging out with sinners. I am not religious. Unfortunately in our country all sides, whether they are Christian or not, Gay or not, believe their point of view is the right one. While reading your post, I felt great sorrow for you because while you were condemning the religious people who'd posted, you couldn't see in your anger that you were being just as bad as they were. We all need to quit waging our own little wars for our viewpoint and leave each other alone. For our country to be called the United States of America, we have never been more separated. We are divided by race, gender and sexual orientation. Finally I would say this to you and would just ask that you really think about it...is it any more right for homosexuals to shove their sexual orientation down the throats of heterosexuals than for heterosexuals to shove their sexual orientation down the throats of homosexuals? Neither way is right. What two people do in the privacy of their own bedroom is their own business, however if you put it out there into a public forum, you make it the business of other people, so you can't get mad if they don't agree with you. Dr. Phil was right, the first lady wasn't really having an issue with her sister about her sexual orientation, but they had other issues going on. I hope that in your life instead of running into and dealing with religious people you have many more come into your life who are true Christians. Take a look in a mirror and you might find your behavior is just like those you are having a problem with, because you are really angry and feeling that your way is the right way just like them. That's what really showed in your post. |
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October 19, 2005, 2:19 pm PDT
Quote From: a31g49 Why is it so hard for so many on this site to understand that not everyone is a christian and not everyone is a born again christian.
I happen to be Native American and am proud of my heritage-- ethnic and spiritual. My culture doesn't condem people for living how they are made. We don't believe we own our children-- meaning we can not chose their path for them-- we can only guide them.
We have nothing in common with fundamentalist christians when it comes to belief systems. Many in my community have embraced a spirituality (christianity) which DESTROYED our culture and way of life. It's a very sad thing. But I suppose when you are confronted with "Convert or die" many do choose to accept the conquerers way of life.
So, when you all start going on and on about what your god wants from all people of the earth, all I can do is shake my head at your ignorance. For isn't that what you do when you are confronted with traditions different from your own?
I believe the Earth is the mother of us all, and that we are destroying our mother. Can't you hear her screams? But do I tell you SUV driving, 6000 square foot house living, polluting non-bleievers that you our murdering our mother? Isn't that more important that who someone loves? No, I don't. Not generally, anyway.
My tribe has a cultural history of accepting all among us as brothers and sisters. Including those who do not fit into traditional gender roles. Including those who are attracted to those of the same sex. It's all around us on mother earth. All mammal species show same sex attraction. While it is not the norm, it is not unnatural.
You do not get the right, because you call yourself a christian to comdemn people who believe other than you do. And you sure don't get the right to make the laws that affect us all according to your religion.
You surely do not have the right to impose self-hatred and self-loathing on people being true to their born selves.
I'm so thankful I live in a part of the country where I do not have people like the visitors on this board trying to convert me to their religion.
And all of this judgement day stuff is a little confusing. I remember that less than 20 years ago, that kind of reasoning was only used by doomsday cultists like Jim Jones or David Koresh. It's frightening to me how many seemingly sane Americans have fallen into the doomsday cult mentality.
I could really get into the jesus rhetoric if more pople who claimed to be christians quoted the Sermon on the Mount insteas of leviticus.
I am not gay, but I have had the pleasure of knowing many gays, lesbians and transgendered people throughout my lifetime. I am the richer in spirit for it.
And I almost for got. For those illogical people who claim that god doesn't make mistakes? What about people born transgendered? In the US, the birth rate of people with ambigous genitalia (intersex) is about 2% of live births. So those people are not mistakes? I don't believe they are and according to your logic, you shouldn't, either. But then that doesn't fit your worldview of two genders and strict gender based societal roles.
I long for the day we all get past out superstitious knee jerk reactions to those who are different. I am hopeful though. It was only a little over a hundred years ago that the official US government position on my people was 'the only good indian is a dead indian.'
Maybe someday the attitudes I'm seeing here toward those who are gay/lebian/bisexual/intersex/transgendered are just as abhored by mainstream society.
I might have to do some prostelytizing of my own, if I had to face this type of self-righteousness on a daily basis. The Christians of this nation think they rule the world but they don't! Mother Earth has blessed us with many plants, animals, colors, cultures, beliefs, and yes! sexualities and genders! If Christians wouldn't be so nosey and hostile, maybe they could see past the gay thing and reflect on this glorious earth and realize that it is in trouble! We are sucking it dry! Stop the over-populating! Stop over-using our resources! |
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October 19, 2005, 2:20 pm PDT
Quote From: a31g49 Why is it so hard for so many on this site to understand that not everyone is a christian and not everyone is a born again christian.
I happen to be Native American and am proud of my heritage-- ethnic and spiritual. My culture doesn't condem people for living how they are made. We don't believe we own our children-- meaning we can not chose their path for them-- we can only guide them.
We have nothing in common with fundamentalist christians when it comes to belief systems. Many in my community have embraced a spirituality (christianity) which DESTROYED our culture and way of life. It's a very sad thing. But I suppose when you are confronted with "Convert or die" many do choose to accept the conquerers way of life.
So, when you all start going on and on about what your god wants from all people of the earth, all I can do is shake my head at your ignorance. For isn't that what you do when you are confronted with traditions different from your own?
I believe the Earth is the mother of us all, and that we are destroying our mother. Can't you hear her screams? But do I tell you SUV driving, 6000 square foot house living, polluting non-bleievers that you our murdering our mother? Isn't that more important that who someone loves? No, I don't. Not generally, anyway.
My tribe has a cultural history of accepting all among us as brothers and sisters. Including those who do not fit into traditional gender roles. Including those who are attracted to those of the same sex. It's all around us on mother earth. All mammal species show same sex attraction. While it is not the norm, it is not unnatural.
You do not get the right, because you call yourself a christian to comdemn people who believe other than you do. And you sure don't get the right to make the laws that affect us all according to your religion.
You surely do not have the right to impose self-hatred and self-loathing on people being true to their born selves.
I'm so thankful I live in a part of the country where I do not have people like the visitors on this board trying to convert me to their religion.
And all of this judgement day stuff is a little confusing. I remember that less than 20 years ago, that kind of reasoning was only used by doomsday cultists like Jim Jones or David Koresh. It's frightening to me how many seemingly sane Americans have fallen into the doomsday cult mentality.
I could really get into the jesus rhetoric if more pople who claimed to be christians quoted the Sermon on the Mount insteas of leviticus.
I am not gay, but I have had the pleasure of knowing many gays, lesbians and transgendered people throughout my lifetime. I am the richer in spirit for it.
And I almost for got. For those illogical people who claim that god doesn't make mistakes? What about people born transgendered? In the US, the birth rate of people with ambigous genitalia (intersex) is about 2% of live births. So those people are not mistakes? I don't believe they are and according to your logic, you shouldn't, either. But then that doesn't fit your worldview of two genders and strict gender based societal roles.
I long for the day we all get past out superstitious knee jerk reactions to those who are different. I am hopeful though. It was only a little over a hundred years ago that the official US government position on my people was 'the only good indian is a dead indian.'
Maybe someday the attitudes I'm seeing here toward those who are gay/lebian/bisexual/intersex/transgendered are just as abhored by mainstream society.
I might have to do some prostelytizing of my own, if I had to face this type of self-righteousness on a daily basis. I agree wholeheartedly, and I appreciate your post. There are many people, millions, in the US who are not Christian and do NOT want to be. However, because of the current and past political and cultural climates, we must constantly endure the beliefs and the effects of those beliefs as a pervasive part of daily life. If your "Christian" beliefs allow you and encourage you to discriminate against fellow humans, then perhaps you should more carefully consult the Bible, the book that is so often misused to support discrimination. The passages that "condemn" homosexuality are questionably translated at best, and are very few in number compared to the number of verses, chapters, and books devoted to love, compassion and, yes, NON-JUDGEMENT. Jesus time and time again chose to spend his time with the prostitutes and the tax collectors, not the Pharisees, who were fixated on condemnation. We should worry less about regulating the personal choices of homosexuals and more about regulating the reckless political choices of our government officials. Diversity is what makes this country great, but so much time, energy, and countless lives have been squandered because of intolerance and ignorance. |
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October 19, 2005, 2:36 pm PDT
Quote From: a31g49 Why is it so hard for so many on this site to understand that not everyone is a christian and not everyone is a born again christian.
I happen to be Native American and am proud of my heritage-- ethnic and spiritual. My culture doesn't condem people for living how they are made. We don't believe we own our children-- meaning we can not chose their path for them-- we can only guide them.
We have nothing in common with fundamentalist christians when it comes to belief systems. Many in my community have embraced a spirituality (christianity) which DESTROYED our culture and way of life. It's a very sad thing. But I suppose when you are confronted with "Convert or die" many do choose to accept the conquerers way of life.
So, when you all start going on and on about what your god wants from all people of the earth, all I can do is shake my head at your ignorance. For isn't that what you do when you are confronted with traditions different from your own?
I believe the Earth is the mother of us all, and that we are destroying our mother. Can't you hear her screams? But do I tell you SUV driving, 6000 square foot house living, polluting non-bleievers that you our murdering our mother? Isn't that more important that who someone loves? No, I don't. Not generally, anyway.
My tribe has a cultural history of accepting all among us as brothers and sisters. Including those who do not fit into traditional gender roles. Including those who are attracted to those of the same sex. It's all around us on mother earth. All mammal species show same sex attraction. While it is not the norm, it is not unnatural.
You do not get the right, because you call yourself a christian to comdemn people who believe other than you do. And you sure don't get the right to make the laws that affect us all according to your religion.
You surely do not have the right to impose self-hatred and self-loathing on people being true to their born selves.
I'm so thankful I live in a part of the country where I do not have people like the visitors on this board trying to convert me to their religion.
And all of this judgement day stuff is a little confusing. I remember that less than 20 years ago, that kind of reasoning was only used by doomsday cultists like Jim Jones or David Koresh. It's frightening to me how many seemingly sane Americans have fallen into the doomsday cult mentality.
I could really get into the jesus rhetoric if more pople who claimed to be christians quoted the Sermon on the Mount insteas of leviticus.
I am not gay, but I have had the pleasure of knowing many gays, lesbians and transgendered people throughout my lifetime. I am the richer in spirit for it.
And I almost for got. For those illogical people who claim that god doesn't make mistakes? What about people born transgendered? In the US, the birth rate of people with ambigous genitalia (intersex) is about 2% of live births. So those people are not mistakes? I don't believe they are and according to your logic, you shouldn't, either. But then that doesn't fit your worldview of two genders and strict gender based societal roles.
I long for the day we all get past out superstitious knee jerk reactions to those who are different. I am hopeful though. It was only a little over a hundred years ago that the official US government position on my people was 'the only good indian is a dead indian.'
Maybe someday the attitudes I'm seeing here toward those who are gay/lebian/bisexual/intersex/transgendered are just as abhored by mainstream society.
I might have to do some prostelytizing of my own, if I had to face this type of self-righteousness on a daily basis.
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