Replies to '07/03 School Discipline: Out of Control?'

 
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November 29, 2008, 4:33 pm PST

12/05 School Discipline: Out of Control?

Quote From: skenski

I have taught for over 8 years in an inner city school district located in the mid-west. Although I have heard stories  and seen news reports even locally similar to this show's examples, I have never experienced anything like that in the two schools I have taught at. What I have experienced is so out of control children and such little support from the district or parents I find it very difficult to teach the curriculum outlined by the district and the state. Currently I have 24 students and 3 of them are on specific behavior plans. These plans include tracking sheets that I must stay on top of and record each student's behavior sometimes as often as every 20 minutes! I must also reward behavior that simply complies to school and classroom standards sometimes as often as three times a day. Each student's behavior must be logged daily to document successess and failures. Each student has an agenda and behavior tracking sheets that must be completed with detailed descripitons of behavior for parents to read, sign and have returned daily. I am required to meet monthly with the parents and the team which help to set up these behavior plans. Now on top of this...I have 21 other children I am trying to teach, assess, grade papers, file, complete lesson plans, tutor, prepare for formal observations, and keep up parent contacts with. I do all this with no additional help. We have no aids or PARA's. I work from 6:30 in the morning to 6:30 at night, come in and work work for 5 hours every Saturday, and of course take work home with me every night. Yes, some teacher's and schools are NOT doing what is right by our children. Sometimes that is through poor disciplanary procedures, but most often its because of too much paperwork and too little time actually caring and teaching the children we are given the responsiblility to teach each year.
I so enjoyed reading your response...hopefully everyone following this message board will be given pause by your enlightening information. I have worked with children in inpatient psychiatric settings for over 7 years. Its not uncommon to be hit, kicked and bitten on a daily basis. The cussing is a given. And these are just the 6-8 year old crew:) It is frustrating work in and of itself. Additionally there is frequent criticism about rules and procedures from parents, guardians. From my experience in the area I am impressed by one person's ability to manage 24 children and 24 sets of parents. I appreciate your message and I appreciate your daily efforts!
 
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December 2, 2008, 10:24 am PST

12/05 School Discipline: Out of Control?

Quote From: skenski

I have taught for over 8 years in an inner city school district located in the mid-west. Although I have heard stories  and seen news reports even locally similar to this show's examples, I have never experienced anything like that in the two schools I have taught at. What I have experienced is so out of control children and such little support from the district or parents I find it very difficult to teach the curriculum outlined by the district and the state. Currently I have 24 students and 3 of them are on specific behavior plans. These plans include tracking sheets that I must stay on top of and record each student's behavior sometimes as often as every 20 minutes! I must also reward behavior that simply complies to school and classroom standards sometimes as often as three times a day. Each student's behavior must be logged daily to document successess and failures. Each student has an agenda and behavior tracking sheets that must be completed with detailed descripitons of behavior for parents to read, sign and have returned daily. I am required to meet monthly with the parents and the team which help to set up these behavior plans. Now on top of this...I have 21 other children I am trying to teach, assess, grade papers, file, complete lesson plans, tutor, prepare for formal observations, and keep up parent contacts with. I do all this with no additional help. We have no aids or PARA's. I work from 6:30 in the morning to 6:30 at night, come in and work work for 5 hours every Saturday, and of course take work home with me every night. Yes, some teacher's and schools are NOT doing what is right by our children. Sometimes that is through poor disciplanary procedures, but most often its because of too much paperwork and too little time actually caring and teaching the children we are given the responsiblility to teach each year.

That you said 24 students tells me you are in a better community because most classrooms are over 30 students now.  Many jobs require a bunch of paper work and extra attention to for others or things.

A teacher is an educator, chooses that just a police officer choose to protect the public with his/her life on the line.  I respect your postion and choice of career but you are not in such bad shape in life, you get all holidays off, vacations and decent pay and benefits, you are a public servent in most states.

I do not respect that any teacher plays off they have it rough in any way unless they are in danger as some are in the roughest schools.  When we have equal schoool systems regardless of neighborhoods and money influence we may get better students.  Parents is at an all time high of not raising thier children, schools are at an all time high of not meeting that needed extra conditioning for that way of life.

 

This school: band, swim pools, computer rooms, tennis courts ETC

That school lucky to have one set of up to date books?

 
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December 5, 2008, 1:37 pm PST

Real knowledge

Quote From: skenski

I have taught for over 8 years in an inner city school district located in the mid-west. Although I have heard stories  and seen news reports even locally similar to this show's examples, I have never experienced anything like that in the two schools I have taught at. What I have experienced is so out of control children and such little support from the district or parents I find it very difficult to teach the curriculum outlined by the district and the state. Currently I have 24 students and 3 of them are on specific behavior plans. These plans include tracking sheets that I must stay on top of and record each student's behavior sometimes as often as every 20 minutes! I must also reward behavior that simply complies to school and classroom standards sometimes as often as three times a day. Each student's behavior must be logged daily to document successess and failures. Each student has an agenda and behavior tracking sheets that must be completed with detailed descripitons of behavior for parents to read, sign and have returned daily. I am required to meet monthly with the parents and the team which help to set up these behavior plans. Now on top of this...I have 21 other children I am trying to teach, assess, grade papers, file, complete lesson plans, tutor, prepare for formal observations, and keep up parent contacts with. I do all this with no additional help. We have no aids or PARA's. I work from 6:30 in the morning to 6:30 at night, come in and work work for 5 hours every Saturday, and of course take work home with me every night. Yes, some teacher's and schools are NOT doing what is right by our children. Sometimes that is through poor disciplanary procedures, but most often its because of too much paperwork and too little time actually caring and teaching the children we are given the responsiblility to teach each year.
Thank you for presenting real knowledge.  The time out length is too long but what all did they try before hand? I saw a teachers getting hit.  Why is the teacher not suing?
 
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December 5, 2008, 3:22 pm PST

Bless you

Quote From: skenski

I have taught for over 8 years in an inner city school district located in the mid-west. Although I have heard stories  and seen news reports even locally similar to this show's examples, I have never experienced anything like that in the two schools I have taught at. What I have experienced is so out of control children and such little support from the district or parents I find it very difficult to teach the curriculum outlined by the district and the state. Currently I have 24 students and 3 of them are on specific behavior plans. These plans include tracking sheets that I must stay on top of and record each student's behavior sometimes as often as every 20 minutes! I must also reward behavior that simply complies to school and classroom standards sometimes as often as three times a day. Each student's behavior must be logged daily to document successess and failures. Each student has an agenda and behavior tracking sheets that must be completed with detailed descripitons of behavior for parents to read, sign and have returned daily. I am required to meet monthly with the parents and the team which help to set up these behavior plans. Now on top of this...I have 21 other children I am trying to teach, assess, grade papers, file, complete lesson plans, tutor, prepare for formal observations, and keep up parent contacts with. I do all this with no additional help. We have no aids or PARA's. I work from 6:30 in the morning to 6:30 at night, come in and work work for 5 hours every Saturday, and of course take work home with me every night. Yes, some teacher's and schools are NOT doing what is right by our children. Sometimes that is through poor disciplanary procedures, but most often its because of too much paperwork and too little time actually caring and teaching the children we are given the responsiblility to teach each year.

We will never send our granddaughter w/autism to public school.  Understaffed and overcrowded and a disgraceful use of teachers.  Burn them out and underpay them.  I can't see another dime going overseas to assist other countries when our own children and our most vulnerable children are not funded appropriately.  It is a disgrace.  Good principals and teachers take care of the children with and without parental interest.  I'm humbled by what you do, I don't have the emotion or the strength to do it. 

 

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December 5, 2008, 3:29 pm PST

school discipline

Quote From: skenski

I have taught for over 8 years in an inner city school district located in the mid-west. Although I have heard stories  and seen news reports even locally similar to this show's examples, I have never experienced anything like that in the two schools I have taught at. What I have experienced is so out of control children and such little support from the district or parents I find it very difficult to teach the curriculum outlined by the district and the state. Currently I have 24 students and 3 of them are on specific behavior plans. These plans include tracking sheets that I must stay on top of and record each student's behavior sometimes as often as every 20 minutes! I must also reward behavior that simply complies to school and classroom standards sometimes as often as three times a day. Each student's behavior must be logged daily to document successess and failures. Each student has an agenda and behavior tracking sheets that must be completed with detailed descripitons of behavior for parents to read, sign and have returned daily. I am required to meet monthly with the parents and the team which help to set up these behavior plans. Now on top of this...I have 21 other children I am trying to teach, assess, grade papers, file, complete lesson plans, tutor, prepare for formal observations, and keep up parent contacts with. I do all this with no additional help. We have no aids or PARA's. I work from 6:30 in the morning to 6:30 at night, come in and work work for 5 hours every Saturday, and of course take work home with me every night. Yes, some teacher's and schools are NOT doing what is right by our children. Sometimes that is through poor disciplanary procedures, but most often its because of too much paperwork and too little time actually caring and teaching the children we are given the responsiblility to teach each year.
It is mandated under Adequate Yearly Progress from NCLB to state how many suspensions a school has.  Therefore, the practice seems to be to not truthfully report or to avoid having too many that make the school look bad by not adequately discipline students who need it.  I didn't get to see the whole show today, but heard the piece from the student who said that the teachers didn't do anything when the student reported bullying.  Unfortunately, when teachers don't get support from administration, they start to feel why bother putting in a report where the student will just get their hand slapped and nothing more is done.  I don't endorse that, I am just stating that as a contributing factor to what appears to be apathy on the teacher's part.  Schools need to be able to have a discipline policy that is humane, responsible and will be followed through, not only by the staff but by the students and their parents.
 
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December 5, 2008, 9:16 pm PST

This is why I homeschool!

Quote From: skenski

I have taught for over 8 years in an inner city school district located in the mid-west. Although I have heard stories  and seen news reports even locally similar to this show's examples, I have never experienced anything like that in the two schools I have taught at. What I have experienced is so out of control children and such little support from the district or parents I find it very difficult to teach the curriculum outlined by the district and the state. Currently I have 24 students and 3 of them are on specific behavior plans. These plans include tracking sheets that I must stay on top of and record each student's behavior sometimes as often as every 20 minutes! I must also reward behavior that simply complies to school and classroom standards sometimes as often as three times a day. Each student's behavior must be logged daily to document successess and failures. Each student has an agenda and behavior tracking sheets that must be completed with detailed descripitons of behavior for parents to read, sign and have returned daily. I am required to meet monthly with the parents and the team which help to set up these behavior plans. Now on top of this...I have 21 other children I am trying to teach, assess, grade papers, file, complete lesson plans, tutor, prepare for formal observations, and keep up parent contacts with. I do all this with no additional help. We have no aids or PARA's. I work from 6:30 in the morning to 6:30 at night, come in and work work for 5 hours every Saturday, and of course take work home with me every night. Yes, some teacher's and schools are NOT doing what is right by our children. Sometimes that is through poor disciplanary procedures, but most often its because of too much paperwork and too little time actually caring and teaching the children we are given the responsiblility to teach each year.
I am totally sympathetic with the hard job that school teachers have. It is a well known fact that all neurological disorders are on the rise (AS, ADD/ADHD and so on) and it is increasingly common that public school classrooms can have as much as one third special needs. No doubt that teachers are overwhelmed which is why we homeschool our special needs son. Our son was in the special needs preschool run by the district and on a IEP and we were told "off the record" that if we had any resources what so ever to NOT enroll our child in public because as the head of the school disctrict informed us - they knew they couldn't met the needs of these students. Other than preschool our son has never been in public school but at the age of 9 reads at a 6th grade level, math at a 4.5 level in fact when we last tested him his lowest score was spelling which I don't even teach and that was a whole grade level above what he would be in public school. I can testisfy that school discipline is most definately out of control. When our son was in the school runned preschool we were told that they regularly tie the children into the chairs. I asked what does the child do - their response: "They eventually stop struggling." Disgusting that they think its okay to tie special needs 3 and 4 year olds into chairs and consider that good education. My husband hear on almost a weekly basis of special needs children that are molested, bullied and assault and we look at each other and say,"Thank God we homeschool."
Ada
Homeschool Mom for the last 4 years
 
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December 6, 2008, 2:21 am PST

Same Here

Quote From: skenski

I have taught for over 8 years in an inner city school district located in the mid-west. Although I have heard stories  and seen news reports even locally similar to this show's examples, I have never experienced anything like that in the two schools I have taught at. What I have experienced is so out of control children and such little support from the district or parents I find it very difficult to teach the curriculum outlined by the district and the state. Currently I have 24 students and 3 of them are on specific behavior plans. These plans include tracking sheets that I must stay on top of and record each student's behavior sometimes as often as every 20 minutes! I must also reward behavior that simply complies to school and classroom standards sometimes as often as three times a day. Each student's behavior must be logged daily to document successess and failures. Each student has an agenda and behavior tracking sheets that must be completed with detailed descripitons of behavior for parents to read, sign and have returned daily. I am required to meet monthly with the parents and the team which help to set up these behavior plans. Now on top of this...I have 21 other children I am trying to teach, assess, grade papers, file, complete lesson plans, tutor, prepare for formal observations, and keep up parent contacts with. I do all this with no additional help. We have no aids or PARA's. I work from 6:30 in the morning to 6:30 at night, come in and work work for 5 hours every Saturday, and of course take work home with me every night. Yes, some teacher's and schools are NOT doing what is right by our children. Sometimes that is through poor disciplanary procedures, but most often its because of too much paperwork and too little time actually caring and teaching the children we are given the responsiblility to teach each year.

Bless your heart, I too have had 8 yrs experience in an inner city school.  I no longer teach and although I miss it; I don't miss this kind of mess.  The last year I worked I had 33 regular ed kids,  another 7 that were inclusion students from the BD class and 4 more from the mild/moderate class.  There was never a para.  Out of the 33 ten kids were 504 for behavior/academic issues.  I've been slapped, kicked, and threatened by both students and parents.  I've had to disarm students on two different occasions, testify in court, and have dealt with the police so much  that one jokingly suggested setting up a sub-station in the school. 

 

I found the "experts" take on the situations shown to be simple rhetoric.  As a classroom teacher I'm sure you found it to be the same.  If I had a nickel for every time I heard the buzz word, "best practices," I would be a rich lady today.   Classroom teachers need real support not just someone sitting in an ivory tower offering the current educational buzz words.

 

What I saw today was just plain wrong.  I totally understand these teachers' fustrations, but to allow a child to sit in her own urine, or belittle a 5 yr old in front of the class, (try that with an inner city kid and you'll see how street wise they really are), or to take an adolecent, who is inherently hyper-sensitive about her changing body, and strip search her, is far and beyond acceptable.  I have always told parents they are welcome to drop in my class anytime to quietly observe because what was going on in my room was an open book.  I understand that policy is not popular with most teachers because it can be disruptive, but it definately kept me on my toes, not that many parents/grandparents took me up on my offer.

 

PS.  Pat on the back for the parents who thought to send their son to school with the recorder.  Clever.

 


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