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Replies to '07/03 School Discipline: Out of Control?'

 
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December 5, 2008, 2:57 pm PST

The Problem of Full Inclusion

Quote From: inthenest

ONLY IN AMERICA!!!! I think that the teachers handled the situation of the violent student with autism in an ideal fashion. Children, whether they are autistic, preschoolers or 'normal' older children, need consistent, firm consequences to violent, out of control behaviour. The fact that Isabelle is disabled and is an older child underscores the urgent need to get this child on the right track, otherwise she could hurt other children in the classroom, the teachers whom she was attacking and even herself. She was given a chance to cooperate. She had a break for lunch. It was not 3 uninterrupted hours but likely more like 1 hour. Granted, she could have been brought back into the classroom sooner than that such as 15 minutes. My guess would be that these parents are not disciplining Isabelle at home and that is why she is so violent at school and has a problem with authority as Dr Phil stated. The fact that these parents are so up in arms over this issue indicates also that they are not firm parents. Generally discipline in the USA is inadequate which accounts for all the wild teens in your country.

Federal legislators, few of whom have ever been trained as educators, have deemed that all disabled children be educated in a "regular" classroom with non-disabled peers.  Clearly, severely autistic or even retarded (which only means "slowed down" and is not a profane expression) require more support and structure than one teacher and an aide in a class or 25+ children can offer.  Thus, the concept of "time-out" is almost the only option available to the teacher, who is also being judged by how many of her/his students pass criterion referenced or standardized tests.  Thus, removing the child is an option.  All suggestions of teaching the child "socialization" skills are really good; but, they cannot be taught at the expense of the other children in the room.  For that reason, special education classes were "created" and were wonderful for children encountering difficulties in coping.  Unfortunately, parents and their advocates felt special ed. was a mark against kids and thus, the idea of full inclusion is now the newest "innovation."  Though known as a pessimist, I predict special ed. will one day soon be seen as the most intelligent way to begin.  Although I am left-handed, clumsy, and most unskilled in cutting (my teachers tried to get me to become right-handed,) I wanted to be a brain surgeon.  However, I still can't cut a straight line.  So, I looked at what I could do well, majored in that area, and left the surgery to those with great fine motor skills.  My parents didn't sue anyone; in fact, they were darn glad that they would never have to face the possibility of my doing surgery on them.  So, parents, get over it; some children do better being taught in those areas that will help them cope with life and its challenges!!!!!
 
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December 5, 2008, 3:27 pm PST

12/05 School Discipline: Out of Control?

Quote From: inthenest

ONLY IN AMERICA!!!! I think that the teachers handled the situation of the violent student with autism in an ideal fashion. Children, whether they are autistic, preschoolers or 'normal' older children, need consistent, firm consequences to violent, out of control behaviour. The fact that Isabelle is disabled and is an older child underscores the urgent need to get this child on the right track, otherwise she could hurt other children in the classroom, the teachers whom she was attacking and even herself. She was given a chance to cooperate. She had a break for lunch. It was not 3 uninterrupted hours but likely more like 1 hour. Granted, she could have been brought back into the classroom sooner than that such as 15 minutes. My guess would be that these parents are not disciplining Isabelle at home and that is why she is so violent at school and has a problem with authority as Dr Phil stated. The fact that these parents are so up in arms over this issue indicates also that they are not firm parents. Generally discipline in the USA is inadequate which accounts for all the wild teens in your country.

Wow.  You are really misinformed. Please educate yourself about autism before you speak.  What was done to Isabelle is not anywhere close to "ideal" nor was it discipline. It was abusive! I suppose you think children who have special needs should all just be put away somewhere and kept away from the "normal" children. Isabelle is an 8 year old human being who is perfectly capable of learning and would love to behave and please others I am sure, but she needs to be taught in a different way because of her autism. She was kicking and screaming because she was being closed into a room without even a chair to sit in for 3 hours (even though she did have food brought in to her, thank GOD) and behaved probably as any other 8 year old would in the same circumstances. Especially if this was not the first time this had been done to her.  Please think outside the box and learn that some of our children need special care and must be taught in a way that motivates them to learn and rewards them along the way so that it all means something to them.  It can be done it just requires that we learn how to teach them. This is a neurological, biological disorder that is so poorly understood.  I am amazed that there are people who still think the way you do and that you don't understand why the parents would be upset!  I hope if you have children they are safe and not locked up in a closet somewhere!
 


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