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Replies to '12/29 Drunken Mistakes'
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October 10, 2006, 8:02 pm PDT
 Quote From: bear_ta Alcoholism is a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychological, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. This disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by continuous or periodic: impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, most notably denial.
Disease means an involuntary disability. It represents the sum of abnormal phenomena displayed by a group of individuals. These phenomena are associated with a specific common set of characteristics by which these individuals differ from the norm and which places them at a disadvantage.
Primary refers to the nature of alcoholism as a disease entity, in addition to and separate from other path-physiologic states that may be associated with it. Primary suggests that alcoholism, as an addiction, is not a symptom of an underlying disease state. Primary also implies that when this disease coexists with other conditions, therapies applied to them are ineffective until the alcoholism is dealt with.
Impaired control means inability to limit alcohol use or consistently limit, on any drinking occasions, the duration of the episode, the quantity consumed, and/or the behavioral consequences of drinking.
We have to decide once and for all whether or not alcoholics have a disease or if they are evil. Seems to me if someone is an alcoholic and they are incapable of caring for themselves we should be able to help them, whether they like it or not, and thereby protect society, or we just shoot them. We shouldn't blame people for things beyond their control. Alcoholism is a disease, period. It is resistant to treatment, in part, due to the most prominent, persistent, presenting symptom: Denial! Alcoholism has been recognized by the Medical Community as a serious Disease for a Very long time, now. So, the debate is OVER.
About treating an Alcoholic AGAINST their will…Be very, very careful what you ask for! I worked in Behavioral Healthcare for almost 30 years. I spent almost all of my career working with the Chemically Dependent. Trust me, you can not-successfully- treat someone who is Chemically Dependent, involuntarily. In the state I live in, lawmakers got the idea that you ACTUALLY could treat addicts and alcoholics involuntarily back in the late 1980’s. They passed legislation to involuntarily commit people felt to be chemically dependent to in -patient treatment. It not only DOES NOT work, in this state the state’s largest and once one of the finest treatment facilities went from a very skilled Drug Rehab and safe place to recover, to a NIGHTMARE for everyone. Those who were admitted involuntarily were regarded as ‘patient’s’- as they should be- however, they brought all of their extremely destructive and unlawful behaviors with them! When someone is committed there are NO consequences for these behaviors! In Rehab you CAN NOT have treatment without consequences. Negative consequences are often the ONLY motivations for change! The staff of the facility I spoke of have had to deal with assault, destruction of state property and attempted murder just to name a very few unlawful acts! It’s become quite common place, now. There are no charges EVER! Think about having an enormous facility full of addicts and alcoholics stuck in a place where they aren’t interested in being. It very quickly becomes a dealers haven. It’s now a place to ‘house’ addicts and alcoholics for thirty days. Lawlessness is rampant. What do they now do with an angry addict who has destroyed a unit for drugs and is ready to assault the staff next? Since there can be no arrest or prosecution, the psychiatrists actually drug them to create a safe environment!Since those staff members skilled in drug rehab quickly recognized, early on, that real treatment was no longer possible, they moved on. Worse still, since ‘dependence’ is the most pervasive part of this disease, the law has enabled those who are Chemically Dependent to remain so. Now, addicts and alcoholics, who have burned their bridges EVERYWHERE else and have no where else to go, have learned to go to the nearest hospital ER announce their problem adding that they may be a danger to themselves or others and Bingo they re-enter ‘treatment’ for another 30 days. Some people have been through the facility more than 25 times!!! Some are discharged 8:30 AM and are back on the admissions list by afternoon. This law is a killer of the Chemically Dependent. It enables them to the graveyard!The one thing that really DOES work is what you saw Dr. Phil do today- an intervention! |
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December 25, 2006, 11:05 am PST
Quote From: bear_ta Alcoholism is a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychological, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. This disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by continuous or periodic: impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, most notably denial.
Disease means an involuntary disability. It represents the sum of abnormal phenomena displayed by a group of individuals. These phenomena are associated with a specific common set of characteristics by which these individuals differ from the norm and which places them at a disadvantage.
Primary refers to the nature of alcoholism as a disease entity, in addition to and separate from other path-physiologic states that may be associated with it. Primary suggests that alcoholism, as an addiction, is not a symptom of an underlying disease state. Primary also implies that when this disease coexists with other conditions, therapies applied to them are ineffective until the alcoholism is dealt with.
Impaired control means inability to limit alcohol use or consistently limit, on any drinking occasions, the duration of the episode, the quantity consumed, and/or the behavioral consequences of drinking.
We have to decide once and for all whether or not alcoholics have a disease or if they are evil. Seems to me if someone is an alcoholic and they are incapable of caring for themselves we should be able to help them, whether they like it or not, and thereby protect society, or we just shoot them. We shouldn't blame people for things beyond their control. Alcoholics DO NOT have a disease, they make a choice. It may be a poor choice based on lack of knowledge, or environment, but it is a choice none the less. It is not beyond anyone's control to choose not to drink. I am NOT powerless over a fermented beverage, I choose to no longer drink alcohol until I pass out and/or throw up. I choose to not have alcohol in my body or my home. If AA works for some people, I think that is fine, but I think the whole "12 steps" thing is a waste. It only takes 1 step, STOP DRINKING!! And yes, I do know what I am talking about, I was a drunk who made the choice to stop drinking. |
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December 30, 2006, 4:12 pm PST
Quote From: bear_ta Alcoholism is a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychological, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. This disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by continuous or periodic: impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, most notably denial.
Disease means an involuntary disability. It represents the sum of abnormal phenomena displayed by a group of individuals. These phenomena are associated with a specific common set of characteristics by which these individuals differ from the norm and which places them at a disadvantage.
Primary refers to the nature of alcoholism as a disease entity, in addition to and separate from other path-physiologic states that may be associated with it. Primary suggests that alcoholism, as an addiction, is not a symptom of an underlying disease state. Primary also implies that when this disease coexists with other conditions, therapies applied to them are ineffective until the alcoholism is dealt with.
Impaired control means inability to limit alcohol use or consistently limit, on any drinking occasions, the duration of the episode, the quantity consumed, and/or the behavioral consequences of drinking.
We have to decide once and for all whether or not alcoholics have a disease or if they are evil. Seems to me if someone is an alcoholic and they are incapable of caring for themselves we should be able to help them, whether they like it or not, and thereby protect society, or we just shoot them. We shouldn't blame people for things beyond their control. Oh please. I was addicted to cigarettes and that didn't mean I couldn't stop smoking; it just meant it was a tough challenge (which I eventually took and won). From your post, it seems that if an alcoholic picks up a gun and shoots someone while drunk, he shouldn't be charged criminally because he couldn't help himself. Do you realize how stupid that sounds? "DIsease" is a horrible classification for alcoholism. Just because some are "pre-disposed" to alcholism, doens't mean they can't prevent it. Sadly, because alcohol is so socially acceptable, many CHOOSE not to prevent it.
There is alcholism on my side of the family and on my husbands; therefore, we BOTH avoid it. We drink soda or water at parties and are thrilled not to be traveling down the same sad road that MANY of our relatives traveled (fathers, uncles, siblings, etc). We made the CHOICE not to become alcoholics!
People can stop drinking (we've seen two close friends/relatives do it and stay way from the stuff for years and years). It may not be easy, but it CAN be done. There is NEVER an excuse for breaking the law with regard to drinking and driving. People know of their "addictions" and should take precautions before drinking, if they plan to drink (like walking, handing over their keys, etc). Sadly, many people are too SELFISH to do that (and it has nothing to do with any disease). |
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