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Replies to '04/12 Twin Tug of War'
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April 12, 2007, 8:59 am PDT
 Quote From: maesmommy I have to agree with Camera. I also have to criticize Dr. Phil. The adoption side of this should not have been discussed, unless the adoptive family was there to defend themselves. How many of you all have adopted children?? I HAVE!!! I can't have children of my own, so I adopted, but I adopted internationally because of my fear of this exact situation. I didn't want a birth mother coming back and saying, "I changed my mind. I want my baby back."
The adoptive family was actually very gracious. They had an open adoption, but they went above and beyond the call of duty and look what it got them. Their adoptive children kidnapped at Christmas. The only "Parents" these toddlers have known have been the adoptive parents. I still worry about my two yr old, she was adopted at 10 months from China. Even at such a young age, there can be attachment issues.
Another part of this I would like to address. Where was her family, sister and everyone who is there in the media supporting her now?? Where were they when she was having so much trouble. The only person supporting her was an ex-boyfriend??
If you can share some documentation of detachment and paranoia in a large sample size of children moved from one home to another at 18 mos, then I will stand corrected. If not, then I don't think your own situation is representative of what would happen to the Quets twins.
Contact any adoption agency, especially those specializing in waiting children, older children, special needs children or international adoption. BEtter yet, talk to a social worker. It does happen. Look up reactive attachment disorder. You stand corrected.
Florida does not have a waiting/cooling off period. If Ms. Quets doesn't like the laws in Florida, then maybe she should do something to change it.
Kara I am a mother through adoption as well. Also from China. I have great sympathy for the mothers out there who have endured this apparently horrific and life-theatening disease. But, in my opinion, that is only one part of this story. Does this woman have the ability to "see around corners" to quote Dr. Phil? She signed over rights to her twins TWICE. She was 5 weeks out from their births. How many chances should she have to change her mind and end up back in the lawyers office. Does this not show emotional instability? And then, she kidnaps these children and takes them over the border into Canada!! So, it's not kidnapping when the children are adopted!!! Seriously!!! Is she still suffering from hyper emesis? What is her reason for that bad decision? Does this woman really show good reasoning and decision making ability? I was amazed at how the parents, yes the parents, of these children were downplayed and totally invalidated. The couple in NC are the parents, period. And, Dr. Phil, I am really dissappointed in how you obviously sided with this unstable woman. She absolutely is where she belongs. What if she decides to take the law into her own hands again and hurts someone? Give me a break!!!!!! |
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April 12, 2007, 9:03 am PDT
Quote From: maesmommy I have to agree with Camera. I also have to criticize Dr. Phil. The adoption side of this should not have been discussed, unless the adoptive family was there to defend themselves. How many of you all have adopted children?? I HAVE!!! I can't have children of my own, so I adopted, but I adopted internationally because of my fear of this exact situation. I didn't want a birth mother coming back and saying, "I changed my mind. I want my baby back."
The adoptive family was actually very gracious. They had an open adoption, but they went above and beyond the call of duty and look what it got them. Their adoptive children kidnapped at Christmas. The only "Parents" these toddlers have known have been the adoptive parents. I still worry about my two yr old, she was adopted at 10 months from China. Even at such a young age, there can be attachment issues.
Another part of this I would like to address. Where was her family, sister and everyone who is there in the media supporting her now?? Where were they when she was having so much trouble. The only person supporting her was an ex-boyfriend??
If you can share some documentation of detachment and paranoia in a large sample size of children moved from one home to another at 18 mos, then I will stand corrected. If not, then I don't think your own situation is representative of what would happen to the Quets twins.
Contact any adoption agency, especially those specializing in waiting children, older children, special needs children or international adoption. BEtter yet, talk to a social worker. It does happen. Look up reactive attachment disorder. You stand corrected.
Florida does not have a waiting/cooling off period. If Ms. Quets doesn't like the laws in Florida, then maybe she should do something to change it.
Kara I am a mother through adoption as well. Also from China. I have great sympathy for the mothers out there who have endured this apparently horrific and life-theatening disease. But, in my opinion, that is only one part of this story. Does this woman have the ability to "see around corners" to quote Dr. Phil? She signed over rights to her twins TWICE. She was 5 weeks out from their births. How many chances should she have to change her mind and end up back in the lawyers office. Does this not show emotional instability? And then, she kidnaps these children and takes them over the border into Canada!! So, it's not kidnapping when the children are adopted!!! Seriously!!! Is she still suffering from hyper emesis? What is her reason for that bad decision? Does this woman really show good reasoning and decision making ability? I was amazed at how the parents, yes the parents, of these children were downplayed and totally invalidated. The couple in NC are the parents, period. And, Dr. Phil, I am really dissappointed in how you obviously sided with this unstable woman. She absolutely is where she belongs. What if she decides to take the law into her own hands again and hurts someone? Give me a break!!!!!! |
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April 12, 2007, 9:03 am PDT
Quote From: maesmommy I have to agree with Camera. I also have to criticize Dr. Phil. The adoption side of this should not have been discussed, unless the adoptive family was there to defend themselves. How many of you all have adopted children?? I HAVE!!! I can't have children of my own, so I adopted, but I adopted internationally because of my fear of this exact situation. I didn't want a birth mother coming back and saying, "I changed my mind. I want my baby back."
The adoptive family was actually very gracious. They had an open adoption, but they went above and beyond the call of duty and look what it got them. Their adoptive children kidnapped at Christmas. The only "Parents" these toddlers have known have been the adoptive parents. I still worry about my two yr old, she was adopted at 10 months from China. Even at such a young age, there can be attachment issues.
Another part of this I would like to address. Where was her family, sister and everyone who is there in the media supporting her now?? Where were they when she was having so much trouble. The only person supporting her was an ex-boyfriend??
If you can share some documentation of detachment and paranoia in a large sample size of children moved from one home to another at 18 mos, then I will stand corrected. If not, then I don't think your own situation is representative of what would happen to the Quets twins.
Contact any adoption agency, especially those specializing in waiting children, older children, special needs children or international adoption. BEtter yet, talk to a social worker. It does happen. Look up reactive attachment disorder. You stand corrected.
Florida does not have a waiting/cooling off period. If Ms. Quets doesn't like the laws in Florida, then maybe she should do something to change it.
Kara I am a mother through adoption as well. Also from China. I have great sympathy for the mothers out there who have endured this apparently horrific and life-theatening disease. But, in my opinion, that is only one part of this story. Does this woman have the ability to "see around corners" to quote Dr. Phil? She signed over rights to her twins TWICE. She was 5 weeks out from their births. How many chances should she have to change her mind and end up back in the lawyers office. Does this not show emotional instability? And then, she kidnaps these children and takes them over the border into Canada!! So, it's not kidnapping when the children are adopted!!! Seriously!!! Is she still suffering from hyper emesis? What is her reason for that bad decision? Does this woman really show good reasoning and decision making ability? I was amazed at how the parents, yes the parents, of these children were downplayed and totally invalidated. The couple in NC are the parents, period. And, Dr. Phil, I am really dissappointed in how you obviously sided with this unstable woman. She absolutely is where she belongs. What if she decides to take the law into her own hands again and hurts someone? Give me a break!!!!!! |
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April 12, 2007, 9:44 am PDT
Quote From: maesmommy I have to agree with Camera. I also have to criticize Dr. Phil. The adoption side of this should not have been discussed, unless the adoptive family was there to defend themselves. How many of you all have adopted children?? I HAVE!!! I can't have children of my own, so I adopted, but I adopted internationally because of my fear of this exact situation. I didn't want a birth mother coming back and saying, "I changed my mind. I want my baby back."
The adoptive family was actually very gracious. They had an open adoption, but they went above and beyond the call of duty and look what it got them. Their adoptive children kidnapped at Christmas. The only "Parents" these toddlers have known have been the adoptive parents. I still worry about my two yr old, she was adopted at 10 months from China. Even at such a young age, there can be attachment issues.
Another part of this I would like to address. Where was her family, sister and everyone who is there in the media supporting her now?? Where were they when she was having so much trouble. The only person supporting her was an ex-boyfriend??
If you can share some documentation of detachment and paranoia in a large sample size of children moved from one home to another at 18 mos, then I will stand corrected. If not, then I don't think your own situation is representative of what would happen to the Quets twins.
Contact any adoption agency, especially those specializing in waiting children, older children, special needs children or international adoption. BEtter yet, talk to a social worker. It does happen. Look up reactive attachment disorder. You stand corrected.
Florida does not have a waiting/cooling off period. If Ms. Quets doesn't like the laws in Florida, then maybe she should do something to change it.
Kara Florida does not have a waiting/cooling off period. If Ms. Quets doesn't like the laws in Florida, then maybe she should do something to change it.
Get real. That is your solution????
I donot believe that would change the situation. I agree that her family should have been there to support her and everything else but there is in fact a reason that most states have adoption laws where the birth mother has some time to let the decision sink in. Becuase they do not want the birth mother to make a PERMANENT DECISION based on TEMPORARY Circumstances. I know many adoptive parents and I know that they love their children and have in fact been able to bond with their children. This particular birth mother was making a decision when she was not in fact in her "right" mind.
I can appreciate that as an adoptive parent you would not want the birth mother to come back. I can appreciate that you adopted internationally and were able to help a child in need. I would like to believe that you adopted internationally more to make sure that you gave a child a better life -- many little girls in China are abandoned and therefore you are probably not going to have the issue with the birth mother. The issues that these children have is more because they were abandoned.
This is a completely different situation and the "adoptive" parents should be ashamed of themselves for continuing on with this when it was obviously known that she was coerced into this decision. The attorney's were completely unethical. The papers may have been signed but the second she changed her mind in the office they should have been shredded. You may think I am harsh for or unfair to the adoptive parents but they KNEW there was an issue and yet they did nothing about it. You feel that they were gracious????NO they were being selfish. They knew she did not want to give up her children and yet the decided to go on a technicality of a law....they did not look at the best interests of the children. Those children are going to grow up and they will learn all about this and you know I have a strong feeling that they will end up resenting the adoptive parents. I hope and pray that the "law" see's the irrrationality of the decision's that are being made and reverse them before they are too late!
And finally.... your statement
Contact any adoption agency, especially those specializing in waiting children, older children, special needs children or international adoption. BEtter yet, talk to a social worker. It does happen. Look up reactive attachment disorder. You stand corrected
As I said before the special needs of internationl adoptions has more to do with the circumstance that the child came from (abandonment....severe poverty...lack of resources to care for the children like they wish they could in the orphanages....) then they do with anything else. The same with older chilren....abandonment from their parents. This is a case more like being STOLEN from the parent. The birth parent never gave up her rights...She never ABDANDONED her child. Please do not compare apples to oranges! |
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April 12, 2007, 6:40 pm PDT
Quote From: maesmommy I have to agree with Camera. I also have to criticize Dr. Phil. The adoption side of this should not have been discussed, unless the adoptive family was there to defend themselves. How many of you all have adopted children?? I HAVE!!! I can't have children of my own, so I adopted, but I adopted internationally because of my fear of this exact situation. I didn't want a birth mother coming back and saying, "I changed my mind. I want my baby back."
The adoptive family was actually very gracious. They had an open adoption, but they went above and beyond the call of duty and look what it got them. Their adoptive children kidnapped at Christmas. The only "Parents" these toddlers have known have been the adoptive parents. I still worry about my two yr old, she was adopted at 10 months from China. Even at such a young age, there can be attachment issues.
Another part of this I would like to address. Where was her family, sister and everyone who is there in the media supporting her now?? Where were they when she was having so much trouble. The only person supporting her was an ex-boyfriend??
If you can share some documentation of detachment and paranoia in a large sample size of children moved from one home to another at 18 mos, then I will stand corrected. If not, then I don't think your own situation is representative of what would happen to the Quets twins.
Contact any adoption agency, especially those specializing in waiting children, older children, special needs children or international adoption. BEtter yet, talk to a social worker. It does happen. Look up reactive attachment disorder. You stand corrected.
Florida does not have a waiting/cooling off period. If Ms. Quets doesn't like the laws in Florida, then maybe she should do something to change it.
Kara In nations where new mothers are protected from fraudulent, and coercive adoption practices, they simply don't have any adoptions any more. FOr example, in Austrailia, where any woman considering adoption, can not sign for 30 days, and is given extensive counselling by unbias professionals with nothing to gain from the adoption taking place, they have only 1 to 3 adoptions per year. No one is allowed to profit from adoptions there. The lawyers can't charge $30,000.oo to $50,000.00 to handle the paperwork of an adoption. The PAPS are not allowed to pay the mother money for her "expenses." in fact, the PAPS are not even allowed to meet the mother, and not told a baby might be available so they have no opportunity to but pressure on her to sign the consent.
Because Austrailia won't allow the sale of babies, disguised as outragious legal fees, and because every woman is given ample time to recover before being allowed to make such a decision, fraudulent and coercive adoptions do not occur there, and therefore adoptions don't occur there. Sure, there 1 or 2 or 3 women per year, who really didn't want their baby. Maybe they were raped and just can't get past it. But common since would tell anyone, that no woman is going to voluntarily give up her baby unless she were raped, and even then, most still would not give her/him up without being pressured to do so. Sometimes the pressure comes from the boyfriend, or parents or friends. Usually it's because of misinformation or lack of information. It's a fear of how she will be able to avoid college with a baby, and how she will be able to support her child without college. No one steps in and tells her of the pell grant she'll qualify for if she has a child, or wik, or many other resources. So people pressure her, threaten her, and misguide her. The agencies who know about medicare, grants and all the other help out there, don't tell her because they want to be able to sell her baby. Her own lawyer isn't really her lawyer, because he's getting paid by the adopters, and gets more pay if the adoption occurs. There's usually a clause in the contract that changes that "hourly" fee, if the adoption is successful. Then it becomes a "flat fee" that on an hourly basis would probably figure out to about $5000.00 an hour.
Adoptions in the USA are inherently fraudulent and Quets is just one of counless thousands of women just like her every year here in the good ol' USA. Land of the corrupt, and home of injustice. |
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April 12, 2007, 7:04 pm PDT
Quote From: maesmommy I have to agree with Camera. I also have to criticize Dr. Phil. The adoption side of this should not have been discussed, unless the adoptive family was there to defend themselves. How many of you all have adopted children?? I HAVE!!! I can't have children of my own, so I adopted, but I adopted internationally because of my fear of this exact situation. I didn't want a birth mother coming back and saying, "I changed my mind. I want my baby back."
The adoptive family was actually very gracious. They had an open adoption, but they went above and beyond the call of duty and look what it got them. Their adoptive children kidnapped at Christmas. The only "Parents" these toddlers have known have been the adoptive parents. I still worry about my two yr old, she was adopted at 10 months from China. Even at such a young age, there can be attachment issues.
Another part of this I would like to address. Where was her family, sister and everyone who is there in the media supporting her now?? Where were they when she was having so much trouble. The only person supporting her was an ex-boyfriend??
If you can share some documentation of detachment and paranoia in a large sample size of children moved from one home to another at 18 mos, then I will stand corrected. If not, then I don't think your own situation is representative of what would happen to the Quets twins.
Contact any adoption agency, especially those specializing in waiting children, older children, special needs children or international adoption. BEtter yet, talk to a social worker. It does happen. Look up reactive attachment disorder. You stand corrected.
Florida does not have a waiting/cooling off period. If Ms. Quets doesn't like the laws in Florida, then maybe she should do something to change it.
Kara If you had watched the second half of the show then you would understand that this was simply not a case of a birth mother "changing her mind". She had an absolutely devastating disease that she suffered with for almost 9 months. Imagine how you would feel if you had not digested ANY food or drink for that long. The reason Dr. Phil did this show even when the adoptive "parents" did not want to participate is because he felt that what he learned about Hyperemesis was so horrible that it needed to be discussed on national television. I understand that adoptive parents go through a lot, but this is not about adoptive parents, this is about women with HYPEREMESIS!!! Dr. Phil is a hero for finally given us a voice. When you were adopting would you have gone through with it if the birth mother had changed her mind at least twice in three days and even called 911 about it? Although the adoptive parents were desperate for children, they should have seen these red flags and backed out themselves. Desperation is no excuse for being selfish and irresponsible. I would hardly call them gracious for agreeing to an open adoption considering that they had to meet with her for 11 hours to convince her to adoption at all. The children may be affected by being moved at almost 2 years old, but if the adoptive "parents" had done the right thing, the children would have been back with their MOTHER a long time ago. The children will recover from "reactive attachment disorder" easily since they have infantile amnesia until the age of 4 or 5 (the age when we all develop our long term memory).
I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who can not give birth to children of their own and I think that adoption is a wonderful thing. However, the point of this story is not about the flaws of adoption.It is about the fact that Hyperemesis is so harsh that it can cause a woman to make a decision that she will regret the rest of her life. She is not trying to change the laws in Florida because she is too busy trying to get HER children back. I pray that she does.
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April 15, 2007, 7:30 am PDT
Quote From: maesmommy I have to agree with Camera. I also have to criticize Dr. Phil. The adoption side of this should not have been discussed, unless the adoptive family was there to defend themselves. How many of you all have adopted children?? I HAVE!!! I can't have children of my own, so I adopted, but I adopted internationally because of my fear of this exact situation. I didn't want a birth mother coming back and saying, "I changed my mind. I want my baby back."
The adoptive family was actually very gracious. They had an open adoption, but they went above and beyond the call of duty and look what it got them. Their adoptive children kidnapped at Christmas. The only "Parents" these toddlers have known have been the adoptive parents. I still worry about my two yr old, she was adopted at 10 months from China. Even at such a young age, there can be attachment issues.
Another part of this I would like to address. Where was her family, sister and everyone who is there in the media supporting her now?? Where were they when she was having so much trouble. The only person supporting her was an ex-boyfriend??
If you can share some documentation of detachment and paranoia in a large sample size of children moved from one home to another at 18 mos, then I will stand corrected. If not, then I don't think your own situation is representative of what would happen to the Quets twins.
Contact any adoption agency, especially those specializing in waiting children, older children, special needs children or international adoption. BEtter yet, talk to a social worker. It does happen. Look up reactive attachment disorder. You stand corrected.
Florida does not have a waiting/cooling off period. If Ms. Quets doesn't like the laws in Florida, then maybe she should do something to change it.
Kara There is a whole background story to what Dr. Phil presented on his show - I am in Ottawa where Allison fled last Dec and her story was front-page with a ton of investigative journalism ... Allison hoped that Canada would offer her some legal protection but she was simply removed as she was not admissable to be in Canada (a criminal charge will do that).
I was quite impressed at how Dr. Phil navigated the shoals of presenting only one side and saying that both the x-b/f and the adoptive family HAD been invited and had refused to participate. No doubt they refused to participate ... because Dr. Phil would have asked them all some pretty pointed questions about what "went down" ..
Adoption is good and fine when it happens in an open, transparent and ethical way .. but when "shennanigans" are included ... yes adoptive parents should have cause for concern.
As to the Florida law .. I am sure it's unconstitutional - an affront to life - liberty and the pursuit of happiness in some way ...
I really hope Allison gets her kids back - that the whole story is exposed for the fraud it was and most of all I agree with Dr. Phil that Allison does not belong shackled and in an orange jumpsuit ... simply ridiculous !!! |
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