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Replies to '08/24 The Family Cult'
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October 6, 2005, 7:42 am PDT
 Quote From: leocon First off I would like to say that I do not deny that there have been instances of abuse in the past history of The Family International! I think everyone is aware that at one point in time some sick’o abused someone!
To you who have been abused: I am sorry and I apologize for the hurt and turmoil you have felt. I say sorry for the people who have hurt you, whether they have said sorry to you or not! They have their sin and they know it. It is a sin that will stick in their conscience till the day they die! Then they will be judged by the one Righteous Judge.
I wish you were able to bring them to justice here on Earth, and some of you have been successful at that, but whether they are found guilty in a human court or in a heavenly one, they will be judged, make no mistake about that!
I ask you to do something that takes more courage and “balls” than it takes to drop an atom bomb on the one who hurt you.
I ask that you search within yourself the ability to FORGIVE!!!!
Who here has THAT level of maturity?
The world is already full of people who hate other people! The world is already full of bitterness and anger! You who are bitter and hateful only end up hurting yourself. (It’s scientifically proven)
I am NOT asking you to forgive and then just act as if nothing ever happened to you though. That is not the aim here.
You see, once you have forgiven someone their misdeed then you right away find peace in your soul! That’s just the way it is! And THEN you can go about finding the “culprit” of your abuse with a level head, and that WILL get you where you want to go.
Believe me, whoever hurt you is right this very moment feeling such sadness and such pain and regret that it’s probably like living hell for them. Imagine you committing abuse on a child and then having to live the rest of your life with the fright of being found out and put in jail. My God, it’s worse than being sent to jail; the fear and torture of the mind that you go through.
So, try to understand that you have been hurt, yes, but there is so much MORE pain and suffering in the world happening every second of every day, and there is SO much YOU could be doing to alleviate that pain and suffering. Take a look at YOUR life and ask yourself “Am I doing ALL I can to make this world a better place?”
Now I realize that to some of you the idea of posting hateful material on a forum like this one is in hopes of bringing to justice those who have wronged you. You could also say that you ARE working at making this world a safer place by trying to make sure that this someone who wronged you will not do what he/she did to you to another person.
But let me explain to you what you are ACTUALLY doing. (And PLEASE just listen for a second)
You got hurt by someone who was in The Family International at one time or another. Maybe they are still in The Family. So you have one person to blame.
That’s not enough though.
Then you start to wonder “Why did so and so abuse me? What gave so and so the idea?”
Ok well, first of all there are people who have never heard about The Family and have never read the literature produced within The Family. However those same people go and commit abuse/crime like the one you experienced and probably worse.
Also regarding where you want to place the blame of why so and so abused you is another thing to bear in mind. It’s something we all have: The Majesty of Free Choice!
You have it, as do I, and so did the person who abused you! They CHOSE to do what they did. They could have picked up a porn magazine somewhere and got some f**ked up idea as in like, “Hmmm, I wonder how it would feel to do this and that to so and so”.
They might have gone on the web and got interested in those abusive perversions there. They may have just been around too many “younger” girls as opposed to how many mature women were around.
And yes there is also the possibility that they thought something they read in The Family’s literature said that it was alright to do what they did.
These are ALL possibilities!
But should we prohibit any construction company from building buildings that are over 1 story high because HUNDREDS of people are jumping to their death everyday in China alone?
Now mind you that I am fully aware that there have been some things in Family literature that could have been said in a completely different way, a nicer way and a more “politically correct” way.
But at the end of the day just because you READ it does not mean you have to ACCEPT or ENACT it.
It’s like saying that Arnold S. (now governor of California) should be arrested and “brought to justice” because some idiot watched the “Terminator” series and decided that he too would like to be invincible. So he went out one night and shot him some humans. He got arrested and went to some “insane-ville”. But should Arnold get the flack for acting out “Terminator”?
The point I am trying to make is that there is a constant flow of information entering our brains. What we do with that information is, and will always be, up to YOU! Can we agree on that point on its lonesome? I think we can.
On the other hand some of the “abused” say that the “Leadership” of The Family must pay for what THEY have done.
Ok, well here again, if you are going to try getting Zerby and Peter in trouble for something they WROTE then I’ll save you the trouble by telling you here that no judge/lawyer/jury will ever take you seriously. You won’t even make it to court with a storyline like that.
Again what about the novel Author who writes a story, and in this novel there is a part with a victim being sexually abused, and some person reads that part of the book and gets all turned-on by it and ends up committing an act of sexual assault that very night? Will the Author be blamed for what he wrote? No way!
So since you can’t make a case, due to mankind’s majesty of Free Choice, you decide that the only way to get at the leadership is to accuse them personally of abuse.
How you go about that is anyone guess. What I mean is that the stories vary from one person to the next regarding the same person.
If a detective were to be facing you right now and ask you: “What PHISICAL evidence do you have that present leaders of The Family are committing sexual abuse, or abuse of any other kind”, what would you give them?
You would start telling them “things”! And they would say: “Yes well that’s nice and all, but that’s not going to stand in a court of law. What we need is hard a$$ evidence, physical stuff.”
You might then start pointing them to various websites mastered by other ex-members of The Family. Here again, most of the stuff on those sites could never substantiate your accusations in a court of law. It is stuff they SAID/WROTE. It is pictures of two children affectionately lying on top of one another (as in like a hug perhaps?! You know I could probably catch your kids doing the same thing.).
And the stuff on the web that possibly could be used to build a case against leaders of The Family would end up going into a little folder with “The Family International” written on it and put into a large drawer in the office for later investigation.
Then (if they open a case of investigation) they would contact a spokesperson of The Family International and ask that they, with their lawyer/s, present themselves at such and such a time and place. Or they might come and visit one of The Family homes where the spokesperson would be residing.
They would go over the various materials that are in question and the spokesperson would explain everything in gross detail.
Oh wait…….that’s all been done already.
People wake up and smell the coffee, The Family International has been brought to court and all the materials in question (and I mean EVERYTHING from “FF’ing” to “child sex”) has been brought to the attention of the entire world! And it did not happen just once, not just twice, but it happened again and again in various corners of the globe.
All the outcomes were identical: NOT GUILTY
There WERE things that had to be apologized for and those things were made public. If you did not see the apologies then you were most likely not LOOKING for them.
The FACT is that the judges made sure that there were safeguards in place in The Family’s Charter of Rights and Responsibilities to ensure that all members know beyond a shadow of a doubt that child abuse of any kind, shape or form is ABSOLUTLY NOT PERMITTED!
The Family’s leadership and literature have all already been brought before courts and high courts. It’s already been done, and judgments have already been given. There is no more “gold” there.
Those who were guilty were prosecuted as such. I am not saying that ALL have been prosecuted. There are most likely some still aging away with the fear and torment of past wrong-doings. But like I said before, they are living their own hell. Why trouble yourself with “justice”? God brings true justice to all, all the time and every second of every day!!!
Now what about that certain someone who abused you? Why not get on to them?
Ok, you then say that you cannot get to them because of The Family casting a “shadow” over them. Come on, do you think the governments and police would have any trouble finding and arresting someone who they KNEW was hiding from justice? No Sir!
So it all comes down to this: When you have proof enough to convince a lawyer or police officer that so and so really did molest you or abuse you in some way, then take it to the authorities of whichever country you are a citizen of and place charges on them.
When we talk about proof in the case of you having been abused in whatever way, we are really looking for some of the following:
1) Photo’s picturing the “abuse” 2) Video showing the “abuse” 3) Audio playing sounds of the “abuse” 4) Literature/E-mail having to do with the “abuse” (a) As in a document written by the accused to someone else, telling of the “abusive” act. (b) Or a diary written by the accused stating the act of “abuse” 5) Witnesses who physically witnessed the “abuse” 6) Physical marks on victim showing “abuse” and proof that the marks are indeed directly connected with the “abusive” behavior
These are things that stand up in court
After this it will be the authorities’ job to hunt down the accused and bring him/her to justice!
THAT is how it works.
Again I am sorry for the pain and hurt you may feel. I wish there was more I could do. But really, I know that if you find it within yourself to forgive those who have wronged you that you will find you have a wonderful life and so much to be happy about.
I really do not have much more to say. I think I have been very rational, realistic and “down-to-earth”!
I got to go now and put my 2 month old baby girl to sleep. Her name is Leona, by the way, and I would not EVER permit ANYONE to abuse her.
Peace go with you!
-e-
You say this is the kind of proof you are looking for:
1) Photo’s picturing the “abuse” http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Image:My_flirty_fish_pg_3.jpg (I direct your attention especially at the photo in the bottom left-hand corner) 2) Video showing the “abuse” I point you to the numerous videos of children who did the nude dances for Berg. 3) Audio playing sounds of the “abuse” I refer you to the audio recording of The Last State which was transcribed and published 4) Literature/E-mail having to do with the “abuse” {(a) As in a document written by the accused to someone else, telling of the “abusive” act. (b) Or a diary written by the accused stating the act of “abuse”} Got that too. There are a number of FSMs and Q&A letters on that one. 5) Witnesses who physically witnessed the “abuse” Got plenty of those. Count me as one of them. 6) Physical marks on victim showing “abuse” and proof that the marks are indeed directly connected with the “abusive” behavior You really think those kinds of bruises last 20 years?
In number 5 you indicate that oral testimony counts as evidence. Why do you think this does not apply to the victim of abuse? Did you know that in a court of law oral evidence IS evidence? Many of the ex-SGAs are lawyers you could run circles around you when it comes to the law. Trust me, you don't want to get into that with them.
You say The Family has always been found "not guilty". It seems abvious that you have not read the Judgement of Lord Justice Ward in its entirety. http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Complete_Judgment_of_Lord_Justice_Ward
In it He give the most comprehensive outline of The Family's History to date. His judgement: "I accept the generality of the evidence presented to me that there was widespread activity of that kind (sex with minors) to an extent significantly greater than would take place between children and between teenagers outside The Family. " The are also at least 2 courtcases that I know of (one in France, the other in the US) in which Family members were found guilty. But Maria and Peter don't publish that kind of news to their Members.
I'm not sure if you think I'm stupid, but all the stuff you reccomemnded we do when it comes to forgiveness and getting rid of our bitterness: I've done that. Now I'm in the final stage in which I seek justice for myself and those of my peers who were abused.
You may not realize this but you are doing some serious projecting onto the ex-members. Are you familiar with that concept?
You seem very disconnected with the feelings of the victims of abuse. You seem to think that they have not considered all of the things you mention. But don't worry about it. I used to be as naive as you. I used to wonder why on earth anyone would say abuse occured in the Family. I used to reason with myself that the experiences I had were not abusive. In fact, were I still in The Family, I can see myself writing a post similar to your own. I have hope that you'll see it differently some day. I never thought I would. I swore I would stay in the Family for the rest of my life. And yet, here I am.
Loecon, here's where what you write just doesn't add up. You say that you are truly sorry for the pain that the vicitms of abuse feel, and yet you place all of your references to abuse in quotes, as if you don't really consider them abused. You act as if you don't believe a word of what the abuse victims say. Your post is blatantly two-faced. So which is it? Do you believe they were abused or do you not? |
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October 6, 2005, 2:45 pm PDT
Quote From: leocon First off I would like to say that I do not deny that there have been instances of abuse in the past history of The Family International! I think everyone is aware that at one point in time some sick’o abused someone!
To you who have been abused: I am sorry and I apologize for the hurt and turmoil you have felt. I say sorry for the people who have hurt you, whether they have said sorry to you or not! They have their sin and they know it. It is a sin that will stick in their conscience till the day they die! Then they will be judged by the one Righteous Judge.
I wish you were able to bring them to justice here on Earth, and some of you have been successful at that, but whether they are found guilty in a human court or in a heavenly one, they will be judged, make no mistake about that!
I ask you to do something that takes more courage and “balls” than it takes to drop an atom bomb on the one who hurt you.
I ask that you search within yourself the ability to FORGIVE!!!!
Who here has THAT level of maturity?
The world is already full of people who hate other people! The world is already full of bitterness and anger! You who are bitter and hateful only end up hurting yourself. (It’s scientifically proven)
I am NOT asking you to forgive and then just act as if nothing ever happened to you though. That is not the aim here.
You see, once you have forgiven someone their misdeed then you right away find peace in your soul! That’s just the way it is! And THEN you can go about finding the “culprit” of your abuse with a level head, and that WILL get you where you want to go.
Believe me, whoever hurt you is right this very moment feeling such sadness and such pain and regret that it’s probably like living hell for them. Imagine you committing abuse on a child and then having to live the rest of your life with the fright of being found out and put in jail. My God, it’s worse than being sent to jail; the fear and torture of the mind that you go through.
So, try to understand that you have been hurt, yes, but there is so much MORE pain and suffering in the world happening every second of every day, and there is SO much YOU could be doing to alleviate that pain and suffering. Take a look at YOUR life and ask yourself “Am I doing ALL I can to make this world a better place?”
Now I realize that to some of you the idea of posting hateful material on a forum like this one is in hopes of bringing to justice those who have wronged you. You could also say that you ARE working at making this world a safer place by trying to make sure that this someone who wronged you will not do what he/she did to you to another person.
But let me explain to you what you are ACTUALLY doing. (And PLEASE just listen for a second)
You got hurt by someone who was in The Family International at one time or another. Maybe they are still in The Family. So you have one person to blame.
That’s not enough though.
Then you start to wonder “Why did so and so abuse me? What gave so and so the idea?”
Ok well, first of all there are people who have never heard about The Family and have never read the literature produced within The Family. However those same people go and commit abuse/crime like the one you experienced and probably worse.
Also regarding where you want to place the blame of why so and so abused you is another thing to bear in mind. It’s something we all have: The Majesty of Free Choice!
You have it, as do I, and so did the person who abused you! They CHOSE to do what they did. They could have picked up a porn magazine somewhere and got some f**ked up idea as in like, “Hmmm, I wonder how it would feel to do this and that to so and so”.
They might have gone on the web and got interested in those abusive perversions there. They may have just been around too many “younger” girls as opposed to how many mature women were around.
And yes there is also the possibility that they thought something they read in The Family’s literature said that it was alright to do what they did.
These are ALL possibilities!
But should we prohibit any construction company from building buildings that are over 1 story high because HUNDREDS of people are jumping to their death everyday in China alone?
Now mind you that I am fully aware that there have been some things in Family literature that could have been said in a completely different way, a nicer way and a more “politically correct” way.
But at the end of the day just because you READ it does not mean you have to ACCEPT or ENACT it.
It’s like saying that Arnold S. (now governor of California) should be arrested and “brought to justice” because some idiot watched the “Terminator” series and decided that he too would like to be invincible. So he went out one night and shot him some humans. He got arrested and went to some “insane-ville”. But should Arnold get the flack for acting out “Terminator”?
The point I am trying to make is that there is a constant flow of information entering our brains. What we do with that information is, and will always be, up to YOU! Can we agree on that point on its lonesome? I think we can.
On the other hand some of the “abused” say that the “Leadership” of The Family must pay for what THEY have done.
Ok, well here again, if you are going to try getting Zerby and Peter in trouble for something they WROTE then I’ll save you the trouble by telling you here that no judge/lawyer/jury will ever take you seriously. You won’t even make it to court with a storyline like that.
Again what about the novel Author who writes a story, and in this novel there is a part with a victim being sexually abused, and some person reads that part of the book and gets all turned-on by it and ends up committing an act of sexual assault that very night? Will the Author be blamed for what he wrote? No way!
So since you can’t make a case, due to mankind’s majesty of Free Choice, you decide that the only way to get at the leadership is to accuse them personally of abuse.
How you go about that is anyone guess. What I mean is that the stories vary from one person to the next regarding the same person.
If a detective were to be facing you right now and ask you: “What PHISICAL evidence do you have that present leaders of The Family are committing sexual abuse, or abuse of any other kind”, what would you give them?
You would start telling them “things”! And they would say: “Yes well that’s nice and all, but that’s not going to stand in a court of law. What we need is hard a$$ evidence, physical stuff.”
You might then start pointing them to various websites mastered by other ex-members of The Family. Here again, most of the stuff on those sites could never substantiate your accusations in a court of law. It is stuff they SAID/WROTE. It is pictures of two children affectionately lying on top of one another (as in like a hug perhaps?! You know I could probably catch your kids doing the same thing.).
And the stuff on the web that possibly could be used to build a case against leaders of The Family would end up going into a little folder with “The Family International” written on it and put into a large drawer in the office for later investigation.
Then (if they open a case of investigation) they would contact a spokesperson of The Family International and ask that they, with their lawyer/s, present themselves at such and such a time and place. Or they might come and visit one of The Family homes where the spokesperson would be residing.
They would go over the various materials that are in question and the spokesperson would explain everything in gross detail.
Oh wait…….that’s all been done already.
People wake up and smell the coffee, The Family International has been brought to court and all the materials in question (and I mean EVERYTHING from “FF’ing” to “child sex”) has been brought to the attention of the entire world! And it did not happen just once, not just twice, but it happened again and again in various corners of the globe.
All the outcomes were identical: NOT GUILTY
There WERE things that had to be apologized for and those things were made public. If you did not see the apologies then you were most likely not LOOKING for them.
The FACT is that the judges made sure that there were safeguards in place in The Family’s Charter of Rights and Responsibilities to ensure that all members know beyond a shadow of a doubt that child abuse of any kind, shape or form is ABSOLUTLY NOT PERMITTED!
The Family’s leadership and literature have all already been brought before courts and high courts. It’s already been done, and judgments have already been given. There is no more “gold” there.
Those who were guilty were prosecuted as such. I am not saying that ALL have been prosecuted. There are most likely some still aging away with the fear and torment of past wrong-doings. But like I said before, they are living their own hell. Why trouble yourself with “justice”? God brings true justice to all, all the time and every second of every day!!!
Now what about that certain someone who abused you? Why not get on to them?
Ok, you then say that you cannot get to them because of The Family casting a “shadow” over them. Come on, do you think the governments and police would have any trouble finding and arresting someone who they KNEW was hiding from justice? No Sir!
So it all comes down to this: When you have proof enough to convince a lawyer or police officer that so and so really did molest you or abuse you in some way, then take it to the authorities of whichever country you are a citizen of and place charges on them.
When we talk about proof in the case of you having been abused in whatever way, we are really looking for some of the following:
1) Photo’s picturing the “abuse” 2) Video showing the “abuse” 3) Audio playing sounds of the “abuse” 4) Literature/E-mail having to do with the “abuse” (a) As in a document written by the accused to someone else, telling of the “abusive” act. (b) Or a diary written by the accused stating the act of “abuse” 5) Witnesses who physically witnessed the “abuse” 6) Physical marks on victim showing “abuse” and proof that the marks are indeed directly connected with the “abusive” behavior
These are things that stand up in court
After this it will be the authorities’ job to hunt down the accused and bring him/her to justice!
THAT is how it works.
Again I am sorry for the pain and hurt you may feel. I wish there was more I could do. But really, I know that if you find it within yourself to forgive those who have wronged you that you will find you have a wonderful life and so much to be happy about.
I really do not have much more to say. I think I have been very rational, realistic and “down-to-earth”!
I got to go now and put my 2 month old baby girl to sleep. Her name is Leona, by the way, and I would not EVER permit ANYONE to abuse her.
Peace go with you!
-e-
The abuse in the Family was not a matter of isolated instances where some rouge sicko acted on his own impulses. There was a clear policy of sex and sexual contact with children was endorsed. The sexual abuse was not just a matter of some individuals misinterpreting Berg's writings. When Family members had specific questions about something they would ask Berg for an answer, and he would give very specific answers. Indeed, Berg (and now Zerby) was a control freak. He dictated how we lived our lives down to the smallest detail. He controlled what we ate, drank, read, listened to. He even dictated how we should wipe ourselves (literally, remember the 3-sheets rule). This is not a matter of ambiguity in Berg's teachings. Berg clearly believed that sex with children was fine if it was done in love. I admit that he never endorsed the violent rape of children. He always promoted that it be done in a loving way. This is why the Family claims that abuse was not widespread and that it was not promoted by the Family, since the Family only promoted "loving" sexual behavior (when it came to beating children, violence was encouraged however). The fact remains, however, that any sexual contact with children - whether violent or gentle - IS ABUSIVE. Berg was one of the biggest perpetrators of them all (which is the reason he got kicked out of that church in
Arizona
before he even founded the Children of God). So when you say that there were perhaps a few sickos who misinterpreted Berg's writings, you are wrong. If fact, the pedophiles were the ones that followed his writings and teachings the closest. Additionally, the analogy between a novelist and Berg and Zerby's teaching is stupid, and I hope that you can see the difference.
I think, then, that there is a clear link between Berg's teachings and the widespread adult-child inappropriate sexual contact. However, let's pretend (as you wish) that the two are unrelated. The question of why the abuse occurred will be ignored. The question then becomes what does the Family do about the abuse? You mentioned the Catholic Church. They cooperated with authorities and turned over priests for investigation and prosecution. The Family, however, refuses to cooperate in identifying and locating those who have been alleged to be guilty. If anything, they have assisted them in hiding from authorities.
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