Replies to '07/16 Bully Husband'

I don't want to sound insensitive to Karen, but she does not need to be rescued,she needs to rescue herself and know her self worth. Her children will grow up thinking that a "knight in shinning armor" will save the day. She has to save herself and her children. They will have a role model to look up to and immulate. Never having to take abuse from any man for any reason.

I do hope Dr. Phil won't offer any help to this horrible man, he is so mean and evil and no, I don't care what his childhood was like. When you grow up, (despite your childhood,) there comes a time to say "I will never live that life again and it changes with me !" How does one not know if they were happy or not in childhood? That is just an excuse to treat others with intense cruelty and get by with it !

Kick his fat ass to the curb,Karen and you and your girls go live a happy life!  You do not need a man to validate your existence. One day, you will meet someone that YOU want to share a life with but only after you know yourself well enough and feel strong in who you are. I'm sure you are a beautiful, loving and caring woman. 

Friend of Karen, Clearly she is a wonderful woman. However, she does not need another man. She needs to regain her self esteem and confidence first. If she doesn't she will be bringing unresolved baggage in to ta new relationship or she will unconscoisuly end up with another abuser. I was in an verbally and emotionally abusive relationship  and know others who were as well. When I finallyhad enough and decided to do heal things began to change. I am now married to the most wonderful man on earth who loves me and my son unconditionally. And the most important thing is he loves God first. I don't know where Karen is spiritually but if she is a believer in God please tell her to reconnect with God and he will give her the strength and direction that she needs for her and her children. She is doing the kids more harm by staying. It's hard to leave when you have kids. Stay supportive of her. She needs great friends. But help her learn to stand alone and love herself and her kids first so she can spot another loser a mile away. Don't push her in to a relationship too soon.

If you truly know Karen personally, then be a friend and help her get herself together. She needs a backbone as many people on this board have suggested. Perhaps being on the Dr. Phil show will result in a "rescue" but not another relationship. She is not in any shape for a new relationship. I hope she gets the therapy she needs to find her inner strength. Dumping this swine she's been married to and reclaiming her own life would be a fantastic start. I think once she's away from him, her weight situation would also improve. As for jumping into a new relationship even with the nice guys you describe, I doubt seriously it would work as her current husband has truly poured tons of emotional baggage upon her.

 

 

Karen absolutely does NOT need another man - not now, and maybe never.  What she needs is to heal and regain herself.  Abuse of the kind this narcissistic jerk doles out is incidious - it probably happened so gradually that by the time Karen realized it - she had no self confidence, no internal fortitude and no real sense of self.  Indeed, this kind of abuse is backbone breaking.  She needs time away from his poison and skewed sense of omnipotence.  She needs counseling and a good, positive support system to assure her the problem isn't hers - it's his.

 

NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) is one of the most difficult personality disorders to treat - even by professionals.  Why?  Because these people are so flawed they actually believe it's everyone else who has the problem - it couldn't possibly them.  They believe they're so much smarter than everyone else - including professionals - that they see no real reason to even entertain the idea they might have a problem, muchless acknowledge it or seek help for it.

 

In one sense, Rick is right - Karen needs much more help than he does.  She needs help to get healthy and dump him.  She needs to regain her strength and realize staying with him not only continues to damage her - but is going to destroy her children as well.  She needs to understand this is not about her - no one would be good enough for him.  They'll eventually divorce, he'll remarry quickly and continue the same kind of abuse with the next woman. 

 

Narcissists don't give a damn about anyone else.  They're great actors - but in the end, the motivation behind everything they do is to enhance themselves.  They're master manipulators without consciences.  And sadly - they leave in their wake a lot of very wounded people who blame themselves for the abuse they've suffered.  And they leave all that emotional carnage without a second thought.  It's not in them to feel remorse or guilt.

 

Sounds harsh, doesn't it?  Well, talk to any number of people who've been involved in relationships with Rick's type and you'll soon realize what I've said here isn't really harsh enough.  I personally know several people who've been nearly destroyed merely because they were duped into believing the person they fell in love with, loved them back.  One has spent years in therapy and still doesn't trust himself (yes, HIMSELF) to get romantically involved with anyone.

 

Do an Internet search for narcissistic personality disorder and read up on it.  You'll soon see Rick.  And then check out the support groups for people who've been involved with narcissists.  If you have any intelligence and compassion - you'll soon realize what masters of deception narcissists truly are - and how very loving, giving and intelligent people are taken in by these emotional assassins.

 

Karen does need help - she needs information and support to know she's not crazy and she's not alone.   She needs to rediscover herself - and THAT, not another relationship with a man - will rescue her.

If you are Karen's friend I hope you can tell her that there are some of us who've been there and hope she gets the message that for her kids, its already becoming 'too late' They can't help but be affected by this life and  I hope she finds the strength to get the help she needs. If she IS doing it for her kids, its not doing them one second of good. I agree with the other poster who said that Karen should work on herself FIRST, before finding another Rick. Thats what  will happen if she doesn't find the strength  to help herself.

Tell Karen to read the messages posted on this website- everyone is supporting her, praying for her, and wanting better for her.  Please tell your friend that the millions of people that saw that show are wishing her the best and that is only possible if she leaves that monster.

I believe my narcissistic husband was damaged in childhood. Because of the era in which he was raised 60 years ago, he lacked the love and attention that his father was unable to give him. His sisters were shown all kinds of affection, but don't make a boy a sissy by showing him the same thing. My husband was never able to love a wife because he was not taught how to. He became a self preservationist. He watched out for number one. He was going to control who he was going to love. I agree with Dr. Phil that it is about his insecurities and self worth. The grandiose of how important they think they are. The children need to be in a healthy relationship. Staying with this man is going to damage them forever. She would be better off single and then maybe she could meet a good man some day. My ex has had 6 or more marriages and relationships and the failure was all the woman's fault. Never his. Karen run for the hills.

There are probably  hundreds of guys that would line up to treat  Karen and her kids  the way they deserve to be treated but this guy never will stand up to the plate.  That is mission impossible.  Anyone that would do this much damage to his family doesn't deserve any help or compassion from the rest of us. He is one of the creepiest sorriest excuses for a man I have ever seen. He thinks he is well bred and that his wife comes from inferior stock. He has no breeding whatsoever and I wonder how she hooked up with him in the first place.  He wants the woman he married!!  That can't happen because he drove the woman he married into the ground and is still grinding at what is left of her.  I am overweight as well but I am married to an extremely good looking athletic man who loves me no matter what my weight is. He is well bred, intelligent, educated and everything that this jerk is not.  Karen there are a lot of men like this out there that will build you up not take you down.  Lose the 300 LB weight that is your sorry excuse for a husband and that is all the weight you need to lose for now.  Be good to yourself and your kids and know that you are a very desirable woman. When you are comfortable with that I am sure the rest will come off in due course if you want it to. Leave the creep in your dust and he can put the picutures of the skinny half naked women on his computer and exercise machine (still shiny and new I'm betting) because that is as close as he will ever get to a quality woman. Leave him as he can't be fixed. Put your energy into yourself where it will do some good. 

I wish you the best.

PLEASE I know this is long but please read through..............  And start reading everything you can on "how to get away" etc.  And start getting things ready.  When the show in March is over if she is still with him I predict the preverbial poop is going to hit the fan & Dr. Jeykle is going to turn back once again into Mr. Hyde! 

 

It's going to be REAL hard to hang around & wait for when she's ready but Karen IS going to need help when the time comes.  A good friend or a close family member is *invaluable* to a woman in her position.  If you have to *back away now* with the understanding of "when you need me I'm here" then that's what you should do.  Or if you can be an ally in her plan to escape then that's a great of course but you may at some point be banned from the house & that may even be by Karen herself.   I know this sounds very "dramatic" & I don't want it to sound that way but the truth is Karen might as well have been taken by a cult & brainswashed.......... 

 

Ok tell tale signs of abuse & the isolation of the abusers victim in your post.......... 

 

"The support , closeness and love that Karen has from her family is what you hate most about us. "

 

 You are VERY correct in this assessment.  And he's going to REALLY HATE ME for telling you all this!  Butttt I'll do it any way.  :)  Ths *Isolation* of their PREY is so "classic" it's just written over, & over & over.   How can he possibly convince her she is just utterly *good for nothing* & completely "break her spirit" with the support of her family telling her the opposit?  It's "classic" & calculated............   

 

They will "move them from family & friends too.  &/or they will insult family members or conive some way to create a "rift"...............  in your next 2 sentences

 

1.  "We don't tell her what to do in her own life, but we are listening"  So this is Rick now blaming things on the family for telling her what to do......?  It's a "shifting of the blame" which is classic not only for an abuser but particularly for the narcissist!  It's not EVER going to be his fault & even when he's admitting he's doing something "not right" it's because he's forced to do it.  :)   This is particularly true right now for himm because if Rick is suppose to be "working on this in counseling" he'll need someone to blame things on besides Karen herself.  He will than likely be on his *best behavior* with Karen right now & this is all a TRICK!  Back to isolation though......more than likely you "telling her what to do" is also you re-enforcing her that none of the things Rick says are right.  How could be possily allow you to contradict him?    He doesn't want anyone "Listening to her"  Or reassuring her that she is correct in anything because the goal of an abuser is to get her to the point that she *doesn't know what is right* & questions *herself* & actually accepts the blame etc. etc.  Dr. Phil had this in the list of effects the narcissist has on his *victim* & I believe it was that she will "Start to point out the fault her abuser points out to her even when he's not there."   So she will actually end up abusing herself verbally &/or picking out who "dumb she is" or "how unattractive" or how she "can't do anything correct".  etc.  He can't get her to this point with her family there telling her she's really capable of great stuff.   So you all gotta go.........  And now what did you say about HIS family?  Well more on that in a minute first we'll go to #2 statement this part of the isolation................  

 

2.  "If all of this helps you to change, then I can forgive all of the times that we have suffered it."  

 

He doesn't care if you've suffered.  YOU represent a voice of reason to Karenas well as her way out if & when she's had enough.  He doesn't want your forgiveness & he doesn't care about this.   It does not matter *what he says* this is THE reason he behaves the way he does around YOU.  And me?  If he's reading along here with the things I've given away it'll insight him!  I'll be everything under the sun he can think of ie "a man hater, a women's liber, a beotch, a bitter divorced woman, " etc. etc.  I'm nothing of the kind but he's gonna really be ticked off here.  :(    And people are going to have to be REAL CAREFUL around him & I hope I'm making myself real clear here.........  

 

Generational abuse - "You're family also needs to be supportive of Karen instead of ridiculing her the way you do.  They do not help matters because they are only supportive of you and what you are telling them"

 

Have you ever watched the movie "the burning bed"?  get a copy & watch it unfold & who's family is right there all along enabling?  The movie when it's on TV is alway really cut up & I don't think they show the son attacking the parents like he did too. 

 

More than likely the abuse is generational & this is the life he lived as a kid himself....   We only know the life we live & you can read above her in the "what happened on the show" in the 2nd section

 

Dr. Phil askes Rick - “You said you’re not arrogant, you’re just always right?”

Ricks answer - “Well, when it comes to her, yeah,” he says. “I think I grew up arrogant, whether it was with women or anything else. I was always taught, ‘If there’s somebody better than you, just do something, get on top of that person. Be as best as you can.’”

 

Rick realizes at the end here he is giving away that he grew up *to be arrogant*  whether it was with a woman or anything else.  He was TAUGHT "If there's somebody better than you, just do womething, get on top of that person".  He was TAUGHT that bullying them is being "as best as you can be"!    Behaviors are TAUGHT!   And sadly THIS is the lesson their children will come away with too.  

 

Rick has offered to go get help & the 1st thing he did was go to a program that was on national TV & that was to *humiliate Karen* as well!   It doesn't matter if he was taken to task too because look how many people came here saying "what the hell is wrong with her"?  It just re-enforces there is "something wrong with her" & it's humiliating & embarrassing.  That's the name of HIS GAME.  He's very calculated person & it's all going to play right into his hand.   Right now they're in "counseling" & even if they're in seperate places This is going to be looking like he is the *greatest guy*!  He's going to counseling & working so hard & Karen herself said here they're "both going to fix this marriage".  And so *some how* she's played a part in what is wrong with it in her mind.  & I will guarentee you she/he/they are not speaking of "she lets him get away with this" but he is STILL saying "If she would just loose weight & be a better house keeper etc."  He is a narcissist & so to him & what he does *IF* it's not right is because *she makes him do it* .  So he's probably saying if the marriage is going to be fixed it has to be THEM that works to fix it.  And now if that was really him the other day that spoke here he actually said that here too or something to the effect they're working on fixing things.   It's always going to be him being forced to do the things he's doing or because he's trying to "help her be a better person" or some such thing.  He was TAUGHT to behave this way!    Anyway I always get off on a tangent with this subject but at the start of this paragraph I was saying this was planned or a calculated thing for Rick & now here we have Karen saying they've been going to counseling & it's been so much better the past 3 weeks "it's like a dream".   This is *another* calculated trick!  Doesn't he look great?  He's in counseling, went on TV &  had Dr. Phil chew him out on national TV & so now when he takes the physo babble he's learned in therapy & starts using THAT in a twisted way against Karen he can say "Oh Holy cow I go on TV, go to counseling & even NOW you can't loose that friggin weight & ____________"  whatever he's learned he can twist to hurl at her.  & see now he's got therapists backing him up or at least the words they gave him!!!!!!  

 

And see I only just saw this

 

"“My wife, Karen, is the problem in this marriage,” Rich says. “A lot of people think I’m arrogant. I’m not arrogant. I’m just always right. Karen always says the only person out there who’s going to save our marriage is Dr. Phil. Well, let’s see if he can.”

 

First this trip to see "Dr. Phil" was VERY calculated on Rick's part!   Now Karen can't ever hold this over him again because even Dr. Phil couldn't "get her to do her part" & he acts the way he does *because of her* Rick only does stuff when he "is provoked"! 

 

of course Dr. Phil answered though I don't think it was what either Rick or Karen wanted to hear! 

 

"Well, I don’t whether I can. I don’t know whether I should. I don’t know whether I want to,” Dr. Phil says. “You have a theory? This is motivational, you say?”

 

Dr. Phil knows it's not really in the cards for a narcissist to change.  There's simply nothing in it for them TO change.   He had the world by the tail controlling her.  He could have sex with other women, turn his wife down which is putting her back in her place etc. etc.  And he gets to build himself up because he's got her reaching for him & he's "turning her down" & then he can do what he pleases......  There's nothing in it for him to change.  the #1 reason abusers do NOT change...  that is it.  The only change in an abusive relationship is the *escalation*. 

 

Next

Did you hear his entitled reasoning behind the arguments turning physical?  I hadn't heard this until just now when I went back to read but basically he's so vile that it's Karen that will connect with the first smack & he "won't hit unless he's been provoked".  So demeaning her beyond belief & to the point she's in a ragging frenzie is perfectly ok because he's trying to "motivate her" (cause he's taking care of her of course) & then she swings & now it's card blanch to turn it physical AND it ALL HER FAULT.  SHE MADE HIM DO IT!!!!!!!!  It's all very calculated & they are MASTERS at it! 

 

Dr. Phil basically TOLD KAREN the very things I just rewrote here in these 2 lenghtly posts 1st to her & then to you.   And Karen I'm affraid is still VERY confused.   Dr. Phil 

 

"tells Karen, “I think you’ve got to get centered up before you make decisions about what you want to do ... There’s a whole lot of complexity that goes into this issue, and I want you to have someone to help you, without him banging on you from the side. If I make those resources available to you, will you embrace them?”

 

Dr. Phil has said everything I have here & knows the odds & they are pretty horrible & if Karen stays once this "honeymoon" phase is over it's going to take a REAL turn.  And so now it is Feb. & March is coming & so OF COURSE Rick has to be "on his best behavior" because they're going BACK to the show in March!  If he's jerked around it'll LOOK HORRIBLE!  And Rick KNOWS Dr. Phil is a GREAT resource for Karen & another way out.  Once that show is over it's going to take a REAL NASTY turn & especially if all ties to Dr. Phil are severed.   

 

I don't care what you all think of me "meddlesome beotch, crazy wacko doesn't know what she's talking about" etc.  You don't know me from Adam but I'm pleading with you all to please just please read & educate yourselves as much as possible & Whatever she is to do please try to keep the connection to Dr. Phil open if that is made an option which I CAN ONLY HOPE.  He pulled at least another 2 young woman out of abuse just last year that I know of & it's amazing how having some money behind you really evens out the score as far as having "power".   

 

I wish Jen from the Jennifer & Jeffrey show would give a yell as to home much happier she is. 

I have worked with and counseled  abused women for years and found that many of them stay because they have what I call a martyr syndrome. Even if they leave, they find a replacement abuser so that they can feel martyred and get all the sympathy for their self-sacrificing actions and see themselves as the helpless victim (many of them were helpless abused victims as kids so they are reliving that to try and work through it).

 Oftentimes they repeate behaviors that they know will piss off the abuser to keep the cycle going. They need serious long term counseling to deal with the reasons they are attracted to abusers, and stay in the situation, using lame excuses for doing so. "But I love him" when he doesn't love you, "it's for the kids" when it screws the kids up permanently. If a decent guy came around, they wouldn't be interested or would reject him because he doesn't fit their inner programing.

I am not making excuses for the abuser, just pointing out a sad reality to these situations.  Abusers seek out these women and these women seek out these abusers on a sub conscious level.