Message Boards

Topic : 08/14 Trouble in the Spotlight

Number of Replies: 570
New Messages This Week: 0
Last Reply On:
Created on : Friday, February 10, 2006, 12:49:43 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 02/16/06) Every parent thinks his or her child is special, but these mothers are obsessed with making their child a star -- so much so, they're willing to sacrifice their marriages and divide their families. Kari and Bonnie are sisters who are at war because Bonnie encourages her 8-year-old daughter to wear make-up, false teeth and spray-on tans to compete in high-glitz beauty pageants. Kari says the pageants should be outlawed, and fears her niece will become prey for pedophiles. Will Bonnie learn to see Kari's point of view? Then, Ranel is convinced her daughter is the next Dakota Fanning and will stop at nothing to see her child's name in lights. Her husband, Charles, says she's neglecting their younger daughter and their marriage. Can they come to an agreement? And, a mother faces criticism and mockery for putting her 6-year-old son in beauty pageants. Is she making a mistake? Talk about the show here

 

Find out what happened on the show.

 

More August 2006 Show Boards.


As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

February 14, 2006, 4:38 pm CST

swimsuit competition

Quote From: whatjohn

The poster who said that a girl that has good grade and voluteeners never will be Miss America doesn't know what they are talking about. Some of these gals have started their own foundations for charites and have to have top grades and talent. Although the current Miss America is very beautiful you will notice that it isn't the most beauitful girl that wins every years and that is because you have to have the brians to go with it!!  It isn't a beauty pageant but the leading organization for scholarships for women in the US!!!!
Okay, since Miss America is not about looks after all, how come they have a swimsuit competition? And how come we don't see in the Miss America pageant the overweight girl with pimples who has wonderful grades and started her own foundation for a charity, and has musical talent too????
 
February 14, 2006, 7:27 pm CST

huh?

Quote From: pagntmom06

I am very sorry but absolutely nothing you dress a child in would make me find them or think they looked "sexy".  When I see a little girl on stage at a pageant I see a little girl in a cute stage outfit, no different than the costumes worn for dance recitals or cheerleading.  If you look at a CHILD and find anything they are wearing to be "sexy" or have sex appeal, then I am sorry but the problem lies within you. 

wow so you think that I'm some sort of pedophile? I'm sorry but you don't know me, and don't judge me based on some word I used at a forum.  But for your info, lipstick and big hair and high heels are considered 'sexy' by our society in general: they are for adult women or teenage girls who are ready for this sort of thing.  A little kid wearing high heels is a little kid trying to be an adult, doing things that adults do. I find that wrong.  A 'cute' kid is sort of like Lucy in the new Narnia movie; not some girl prancing around in high heels at a pageant. 
 
February 14, 2006, 7:33 pm CST

hmm...

Quote From: pagntmom06

Please tell me when an "AVERAGE" figure skater ever won gold at the Olympics, or an "AVERAGE" gymnast became the most decorated athelete in the sport.  Or how about an "AVERAGE" dancer?  When has an average dancer danced with the likes of the NYC Ballet?  Or a singer with an "AVERAGE" voice, has one ever been accepted to Juliard?  Or just an "AVERAGE" athlete for any High School team, how many receive scholarships for Division 1 schools?  Does an "AVERAGE" student become class Valedictorian or get accepted into a top notch Ivy League school?  Does the "AVERAGE" instrumentalist get first chair in their section in the Orchestra?  Hmmm.... Does the "AVERAGE" cook get a four star review?  Or what about the simple "AVERAGE" employee?  How often to they get that huge promotion or move their way up to the top of any given company?  Beauty Pageants are no different then any of these examples, they are nothing more than another form of competition.  And wether it be other activities, or sports or just daily living, competition exsist in every aspect of the world today.   And even an athelete, who is above "AVERAGE" or on the level of what I spoke of above, comes to a competition not prepared, without practice or training, without the proper equiptment, etc.....chances are they are not going to perform their best or do well that day, despite any skills or attributes they may possess.  Pageantry is no different.  Even if the most gorgeous child you ever laid eyes on steps onto the stage,  and despite what they are wearing stands there and is uncomfortable or shy,  has no modeling ability or stage presence, projects no personality etc.....they would have as much chance of taking home the crown as the athlete on an off day would have of capturing that medal.  And kids involved in pageantry work just as hard as any one else who participates in an activity or a sport.  There are things to learn and I beg your pardon but it is far more than what you refer to in your above post as "prancing".  Proper foot placement, steps, how they carry themselves and project who they are while on stage; some forms of modeling done at pageants is no more different than a dance routine with diors, and heel stretches and so on and so on.....   And I can assure you as well that when these kids who participated in pageants grow up and become adults they will be at absolutely no dissadvantage then any other person, and will be functional, successful adults in whatever endeavor they wish to pursue.  Because pageants are only one small aspect of their lives and does not solely define who they are.  We have been involved in pageantry for some time now and I can tell you quite a bit about the type of kids we have encountered throughout our experience.  The average pageant kid, is an A student or better.  Every single child we have met in our time in pageantry, who are at school age excel in Academics in some way.  We have known plenty of older teenage pageant competitiors who have graduated top of their classes and went on with scholarships to good colleges to pursue a plethura of different careers.  Many kids involved in pageants are also accomplished in other areas.....many are accomplished musicians, singers, dancers etc.....  Many are athletes in higher level sports, gymnasts, skaters, swimmers, soccer, basketball...etc.....Some of these girls are tutors, or instructors or teach younger children in the areas they excel, wether it be academic or extracurricular.  They are very involved in their churches, parishes, temples, synagogues etc.... we know quite a few ourselves who are even catechists.   These girls are very involved in their communities, volunteering their time for  numerous different causes.  Many of which even founder their own organizations for certain causes, and I am not talking about only older teenage girls, we know numerous younger children, who have their own  charities and spend time collecting hats and mittens for the poor or care packages for foster children or our troops, who collect awesome amounts of can goods and supplies for the needy, raise money for cancer  etc..... and this is merely a small fraction of the things these girls are involved in besides pageantry that truley define who they are and might gauge what type of adult they will grow to become.  So as I said before I assure you that their "LOOKS AND ABILITY TO PRANCE" per say would be the last thing they would need to fall back on to lead fulfilling lives.   I would also like to take just a few more minutes of your time, to tell you a bit about the "type of people" pageantry attracts......I have yet to encounter a person I would consider questionable.  The families we have met are good, decent people, many of which have become some of my closest, dearest friends.  I have met "pageant moms" who would go out of their way to help someone new to pageantry, with tips or support, what have you, I have met  mothers who would take the shoes off their daughters feet when she stepped off stage to give to another child, most often then not a child in the same division or age group, who forgot theirs or realized the oned they borught no longer fit.  I have seen Mothers and Fathers for that matter who have dropped what they were doing to help another parent or child with a ripped outfit or a dress that wasnt fitting properly , with last minute fixes.  I have been in ballrooms during competition, where the entire room cheers loudly for every single kid who steps foot on the stage, not just the kids they know or their own, who are there at the end of the stage to "high five" or hug and give encouraging words to each child as they complete their routine..... yes, there are those who do not, BUT that is no different than any other activity.  I have seen the same qualities in the parents of kids in dance or gymnastics, or any other sport that we have been around for that matter, and I have seen parents in these same activities, snicker or sneer or point and whisper at other children as they walk into dance class or the gym etc...  BUT I would never make the generalization that these charecteristics are something that would be "EXPECTED" by every person involved in such activity; And for you to do so about people involved in pageantry does nothing more than show your ignorance.  I have absolutely no problem what so ever with people having opinions that differ from my own.  I do however feel that in order for anyone to form an opinion on any matter, their opinion should be an educated one, and based on facts and knowledge from both the pros and cons of any given subject.  And as far as Pageantry is concerned, opinions are nine times out of ten one sided.  The general public bases their feelings on the matter, solely on what is is they see on television, and have never attended or even known someone involved in pageants for that matter.

so you compare 'miss america' etc with being an 'average' athlete, etc. 

yes but the olympic games are based on sport ability, and the best win.  your example would make sense of miss america was ONLY based on looks.  however, miss america professes to be not just about looks, therefore logically a girl who is great in other areas would win.  but this clearly isn't so.  so a better example would be "a beautiful athlete who wins for the looks, not for the skill".  I know that it's debateable if pageants are based on beauty or more, but then why is the swim suit competition aspect such a big deal? I wish there was a pageant where girls were chosen based on other qualities, but I guess they succeed in life anyway. 

 
February 14, 2006, 7:37 pm CST

'fake' beauty

Another issue here is, what sort of beauty are they being judged by? I don't think it's natural beauty, which would have been the only logical reason to have a beauty competition.  Most of these girls look so fake that they are based on their makeup, tan, etc not really beauty.  So why have beauty contests at all? might as well get rid of the fake beauty aspect if these girls aren't gorgeous to begin with, and judge people based on other qualities not how much self tanner they have on.
 
February 14, 2006, 7:59 pm CST

02/16 Trouble in the Spotlight

Quote From: juliebgg

You may disagree with my views, but do not resort to name calling when answering my posts. Calling me ignorant is way out of line and I do not expect you to do this again.
Er, she didn't call you ignorant, she just stated you had ignorance of pageants.... per the dictionary - ignorant means lack of knowledge (ignorance - state of lack of knowledge)  That did not merit such a bitter response....
 
February 14, 2006, 8:19 pm CST

02/16 Trouble in the Spotlight

 I do not think that a parent should force their child to be in a beauty pagent if they do not want to.  I think that a chid tends to become to involved in it or the parent and then they become obssessed. 
 
February 14, 2006, 9:41 pm CST

02/16 Trouble in the Spotlight

Quote From: pagntmom06

Well you would fail to see any real argument that beauty pageants/ pageant kids compare to Olympic contestants in my post, because that was not the point I was trying to get across. lol 

  

Can I ask how many children involved in pageantry do you know?  I am pretty sure that I can safely say that you do not know any.  So how would you know that the only reason these children are involved with pageants is because their parents force them to be?  My child has a very distinct mind of her own, and is very intelligent, she is more than capable of making up her mind about wether or not she wants to be involved in a particular activity or anything for that matter.  Even on a day to day basis, there are dozens of different things that she is not going to do, wether or not it pleases Mommy or Daddy or anyone for that matter.  She does pageants because its something she enjoys doing and she loves every aspect of it; and without knowing her personally, you have absoultely no basis to state otherwise, and that goes with any other child involved in pageants. 

  

Also, my daughter has never been told about the sacrifices we are making for her, because quite frankly there arent any.  The money we spent on pageants, is disposable, and there for what things we want to use it for.  Travelling is something we all enjoy doing, pageant related or not, we most certainly are not in debt because of pageants, and no one, not her or her siblings go without anything or lack for anything because of her involvment in pageants. 

  

No one particular activity, what ever that may be, defines who or what a person/child is or will become, it is simply one small part of an accumulation of many different things that make them who they are. 

  

Again you say that you "THINK"  parents so "invested" in their child wouldn't genuinly want to help or be concerned about helping out.  But you really dont know do you?  Cause you have never met any of these parents or have personally attended a pageant to see this first hand, not through a tv screen. So how could you?   

Your right, I have never been to a pageant.  On a messageboard it is hard that anyone is going to 'personally' know anyone,  therefore on a messageboard like this one, one has a right to an opinion.  

  

Every child has a mind of their own,  but that is exactly what they are, just children for whom the parents are still responsible to make the right decisions for them. 

  

I give only my opinion, I also think that because you are involved in these pageants does not make you an expert on what all this can do to a young child.  That is what is so worrying. 

 
February 15, 2006, 4:18 am CST

Excellent points!!!!

Quote From: margaritta

so you compare 'miss america' etc with being an 'average' athlete, etc. 

yes but the olympic games are based on sport ability, and the best win.  your example would make sense of miss america was ONLY based on looks.  however, miss america professes to be not just about looks, therefore logically a girl who is great in other areas would win.  but this clearly isn't so.  so a better example would be "a beautiful athlete who wins for the looks, not for the skill".  I know that it's debateable if pageants are based on beauty or more, but then why is the swim suit competition aspect such a big deal? I wish there was a pageant where girls were chosen based on other qualities, but I guess they succeed in life anyway. 

This is what I have been saying all along.  Olympic games require skills that are developed, as does playing a musical instrument, or painting a beautiful picture.  A girl who isn't pretty can still win an Olympic gold medal (and I hope many of our American girls bring them home over the next ten days!!) A girl who isn't pretty can still be valedictorian, become a famous writer, or even be president.  But win Miss America?  Never!  Because bottom line-no matter what else they throw in, like volunteer work, if you don't look stunning in a swimsuit you don't win.  So looks are what makes you or breaks you in these competitions.  You are right that there should be contests on being a well-rounded person...intelligent, talented, helping others etc. where a pretty face is not a requirement to win.  I also like your comment that girls who have these other qualities succeed in life anyway, even without the looks.  That is because they learn to get through life using their SKILLS  (which, unlike looks, will last a lifetime) rather than playing cutesy to get things as some pretty girls do. 
 
February 15, 2006, 6:01 am CST

Iced Tea any one? It's getting Hot in here

Three pages of comments already and the show has not even aired.  Here is the breakdown for you. 

Non-Pageant people 

1) You base your decisions on what pageants are like on the 10% of the pageant population that you see on TV. 

2) The 10% that normaly are on the shows are mothers and daughters that are extremly involved in pageants or made to look as if they only have focus on pageants. 

3) You see these pictures of little girls that have been photoshoped into little adults and think that is "creepy" 

4) You think that a pedifile is going to be lurking around every pageant waiting to ponce on little girls 

5) You believe that looks should not be something that children are judged on. 

  

Pageant people 

1) You feel that it is the same as a sport or other competition due to the "equipment", practice and professionalism needed to win and be a "name" 

2) You feel backed into a courner because of the negitive views of society about the activity of pageants 

3) You feel like it is not a fair representtation of what your children do because all that is ever shown on TV is the pageant part of the families life the pictures and videos of the child playing soccer, going to visit nursing homes going to school and doing thier personal best in the other aspects of thier lives are never seen. 

4) You think people that attack pageants are hypocritical because they are the same people sitting on the side lines at Little league screaming thier heads off at thier kids to make the goal or hit the ball. 

  

So that about cover it? 

I'm boy pageant mom, I'm also a soccer mom, a T-ball mom, a swimming class mom, a stage mom, a cuddle bugs mom, a homework time mom, a disabled veteran mom, a working mom, a theme park addict mom, a buys to many toys mom, A drop off at the bus stop mom, a dance class mom, a childrens theather mom, a volenteer service mom and so many other things but always a MOM. 

  

There are things that we do so much more in our lives than pageants or acting auditions BUT those will not be shown.  I don't like the negitive side of pageantry but when my son earns the right to go to a pageant or asks to give up a birthday present I was going to get him so he can have his birthday party at a pageant then I give in SOMETIMES. 

  

I don't do the make-up, hair, flippers or tans my Mom makes the clothes and I always make sure that I have tons of fees off so it is not something that is done without it being affordable.   The pictures from pageants and modeling and acting jobs are in the EXTRACURRICULAR scrapbook right along with soccer, t-ball and swimming .   

  

The interaction on this board is a lot of what I am in this between a rock and a hard place because of.  My child asked to do a pageant I ALLOWED it not forced not pushed ALLOWED him to do it .  My child didn't ask to do modeling and acting when he started he was 11 months old but he did show interest and enjoyed being photographed and apperently was learning what the other side of the camera does as well because when he got his first camera at 3 he was posing his friends and doing the "photgrapher stance" it was hillarious!  My child and I do talk now about modeling and acting jobs and I constantly tell him to tell me when he doesn't want to do something and he has and he didn't do it.  He also has NOT BEEN ALLOWED to do castings or bookings because of bad behavior or not finishing his work in school. 

  

I think the main thing is we all love our children non-pageant people and pageant people and we want them to be and do and learn and grow to thier full potential.  Some kids like the feeling they get getting on a stage or just standing the the middle of a group and being the one that is making people smile, laugh or just emote something.  These are kids that starve a part of their self if they don't get the opportunities to fill that desire and passion. 

  

Sports parents I am one of you too kid hated t-ball too much standing arond waiting his turn, loves soccer but I have more video of him danceing in the goal box and running after girls on the other team trying to give a high five than I do of him trying to actually play.  Kids like diffrent things and just because you don't get the excess that sometimes is a part of the extracurricular activity of pageants non-sports parents don't get spending $180 on sports equipment for a child that is going to play for 8 weeks. 

  

I am also a talks to dang much Mom ;-) 

 
February 15, 2006, 6:46 am CST

02/16 Trouble in the Spotlight

Quote From: margaritta

wow so you think that I'm some sort of pedophile? I'm sorry but you don't know me, and don't judge me based on some word I used at a forum.  But for your info, lipstick and big hair and high heels are considered 'sexy' by our society in general: they are for adult women or teenage girls who are ready for this sort of thing.  A little kid wearing high heels is a little kid trying to be an adult, doing things that adults do. I find that wrong.  A 'cute' kid is sort of like Lucy in the new Narnia movie; not some girl prancing around in high heels at a pageant. 

Little kids don't wear high heels in pageants, teenagers in pageantry do however.  White Leather Mary Janes are worn with their dresses (which I personally purchase right at Stride Rite shoes, a CHILDREN'S shoe store, which last time I've checked was not in the business of selling adult, "sexy" shoes lol) These shoes are  absolutely no different than the little dress shoes ANY little girl wears when they get dressed up for church, Holidays or special occassions.  In swimwear, most go bare foot, some do flip flops (not many) but some, again no high heels.  Casualwear, most wear white keds sneakers that are covered with material or decorated in the same colors to match the outfit they are wearing, some might wear boots, or the mary janes again, in different colors, sandals, depends on the outfit, but in the 3 1/2 years we have been INVOLVED with pageantry (not watching tv shows about the subject from the couch) I have yet to see a CHILD sport a pair of high heels in that event either.  I know my daughter never has, infact every single casualwear outfit she has worn on stage has been with the keds, painted or decorated to match what she was wearing.  Sportswear, use to be Mary Janes or the FLAT dyeables dyed to match the color of their outfits, but since sportswear routines have developed into more of a dance routine, the girls wear jazz shoes, painted or dyed to match.   

  

And I am very sorry but if I saw an adult standing there in a capri/tank outfit in pastels, with lace ribbons and bows with decorated to match shoes, ruffle socks, big hair bows, and poofy pigtails, blowing kisses, doing cutsey dimples, and spinning, wether or not she might be wearing lipstick, Id say Id be a bit concerned and probally make sure I went in the opposite direction lol, as I am sure anyone would.   Now a child, I definately wouldnt stand there and say "Shame, she's trying to act so "Sexy" and if anyone would I am sorry but yeah theres most certainly a problem.  I dont know what kind of Adults you know, but none I have ever encounter act that way. 

 
First | Prev | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | Next | Last