Message Boards

Topic : 08/14 Trouble in the Spotlight

Number of Replies: 570
New Messages This Week: 0
Last Reply On:
Created on : Friday, February 10, 2006, 12:49:43 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 02/16/06) Every parent thinks his or her child is special, but these mothers are obsessed with making their child a star -- so much so, they're willing to sacrifice their marriages and divide their families. Kari and Bonnie are sisters who are at war because Bonnie encourages her 8-year-old daughter to wear make-up, false teeth and spray-on tans to compete in high-glitz beauty pageants. Kari says the pageants should be outlawed, and fears her niece will become prey for pedophiles. Will Bonnie learn to see Kari's point of view? Then, Ranel is convinced her daughter is the next Dakota Fanning and will stop at nothing to see her child's name in lights. Her husband, Charles, says she's neglecting their younger daughter and their marriage. Can they come to an agreement? And, a mother faces criticism and mockery for putting her 6-year-old son in beauty pageants. Is she making a mistake? Talk about the show here

 

Find out what happened on the show.

 

More August 2006 Show Boards.


As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

February 15, 2006, 7:09 am CST

02/16 Trouble in the Spotlight

Quote From: nikki_pvn

Your right, I have never been to a pageant.  On a messageboard it is hard that anyone is going to 'personally' know anyone,  therefore on a messageboard like this one, one has a right to an opinion.  

  

Every child has a mind of their own,  but that is exactly what they are, just children for whom the parents are still responsible to make the right decisions for them. 

  

I give only my opinion, I also think that because you are involved in these pageants does not make you an expert on what all this can do to a young child.  That is what is so worrying. 

I would say it makes me much more of an expert than you.  Cause the difference is, I have been there, you watch edited television shows. 

  

Opinions are fine, but should be based on the facts, I think you need to have an insight into both sides of any situation, have the KNOWLEDGE to base your opinion on, if not its not an opinion its a bias.  (oh! And before I get excused of being insulting again lol, A BIAS:  

 an inclination of temperament or outlook; especially : a personal and sometimes unreasoned judgment a prejudice. PREDJUDICE: :preconceived judgment or opinion; an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge) Yes, I am most certainly responsible for making the right decisions for my child.  As far as pageantry is concerned, it has caused her no physical or emotional harm, I assure you, and it is something she enjoys and something that makes her happy (only one of many things) so until I see otherswise, or until the day comes where she no longer wants to be involved in them, we will continue to do so.  And despite the very one sided views of the people on this forum, my decision to do so, in no way inmplies that I am a poor Mother, lack parenting skills or the immense love I have for her.  
 
February 15, 2006, 7:26 am CST

02/16 Trouble in the Spotlight

Quote From: juliebgg

Okay, since Miss America is not about looks after all, how come they have a swimsuit competition? And how come we don't see in the Miss America pageant the overweight girl with pimples who has wonderful grades and started her own foundation for a charity, and has musical talent too????

I am not specifically speaking about Miss America, I am more refering to Child pageants, which are far different than Miss America in many ways, and your constant reference to only Miss America just shows how very narrow your mind set is on the subject. 

  

OH!  And by the way, I most certainly do know quite a few young girls involved in  pageantry, who are heavy set, even what would be considered overweight for their age, and you know what?  They compete and WIN quite frequently!  Why??  Cause they have AWESOME amounts of personality and stage presence and confidence!  When they step foot on stage, they feel, they ARE the most beautiful child in that room, and it shows! 

  

  

 
February 15, 2006, 7:31 am CST

02/16 Trouble in the Spotlight

Quote From: themommie

Three pages of comments already and the show has not even aired.  Here is the breakdown for you. 

Non-Pageant people 

1) You base your decisions on what pageants are like on the 10% of the pageant population that you see on TV. 

2) The 10% that normaly are on the shows are mothers and daughters that are extremly involved in pageants or made to look as if they only have focus on pageants. 

3) You see these pictures of little girls that have been photoshoped into little adults and think that is "creepy" 

4) You think that a pedifile is going to be lurking around every pageant waiting to ponce on little girls 

5) You believe that looks should not be something that children are judged on. 

  

Pageant people 

1) You feel that it is the same as a sport or other competition due to the "equipment", practice and professionalism needed to win and be a "name" 

2) You feel backed into a courner because of the negitive views of society about the activity of pageants 

3) You feel like it is not a fair representtation of what your children do because all that is ever shown on TV is the pageant part of the families life the pictures and videos of the child playing soccer, going to visit nursing homes going to school and doing thier personal best in the other aspects of thier lives are never seen. 

4) You think people that attack pageants are hypocritical because they are the same people sitting on the side lines at Little league screaming thier heads off at thier kids to make the goal or hit the ball. 

  

So that about cover it? 

I'm boy pageant mom, I'm also a soccer mom, a T-ball mom, a swimming class mom, a stage mom, a cuddle bugs mom, a homework time mom, a disabled veteran mom, a working mom, a theme park addict mom, a buys to many toys mom, A drop off at the bus stop mom, a dance class mom, a childrens theather mom, a volenteer service mom and so many other things but always a MOM. 

  

There are things that we do so much more in our lives than pageants or acting auditions BUT those will not be shown.  I don't like the negitive side of pageantry but when my son earns the right to go to a pageant or asks to give up a birthday present I was going to get him so he can have his birthday party at a pageant then I give in SOMETIMES. 

  

I don't do the make-up, hair, flippers or tans my Mom makes the clothes and I always make sure that I have tons of fees off so it is not something that is done without it being affordable.   The pictures from pageants and modeling and acting jobs are in the EXTRACURRICULAR scrapbook right along with soccer, t-ball and swimming .   

  

The interaction on this board is a lot of what I am in this between a rock and a hard place because of.  My child asked to do a pageant I ALLOWED it not forced not pushed ALLOWED him to do it .  My child didn't ask to do modeling and acting when he started he was 11 months old but he did show interest and enjoyed being photographed and apperently was learning what the other side of the camera does as well because when he got his first camera at 3 he was posing his friends and doing the "photgrapher stance" it was hillarious!  My child and I do talk now about modeling and acting jobs and I constantly tell him to tell me when he doesn't want to do something and he has and he didn't do it.  He also has NOT BEEN ALLOWED to do castings or bookings because of bad behavior or not finishing his work in school. 

  

I think the main thing is we all love our children non-pageant people and pageant people and we want them to be and do and learn and grow to thier full potential.  Some kids like the feeling they get getting on a stage or just standing the the middle of a group and being the one that is making people smile, laugh or just emote something.  These are kids that starve a part of their self if they don't get the opportunities to fill that desire and passion. 

  

Sports parents I am one of you too kid hated t-ball too much standing arond waiting his turn, loves soccer but I have more video of him danceing in the goal box and running after girls on the other team trying to give a high five than I do of him trying to actually play.  Kids like diffrent things and just because you don't get the excess that sometimes is a part of the extracurricular activity of pageants non-sports parents don't get spending $180 on sports equipment for a child that is going to play for 8 weeks. 

  

I am also a talks to dang much Mom ;-) 

GREAT post!!! :)
 
February 15, 2006, 8:06 am CST

02/16 Trouble in the Spotlight

I just want to fill you in on how these television shows that potray the "truth" of pageantry to you, actually work. 

  

  

Now if my daughter and I had a film crew following us around a pageant (which would never happen, these things never turn out to be positive)  here is an example of an ACTUAL situation that might pursue: 

  

From the second my daughter wakes up in the am and gets her hair and makeup done, all she wants to do is get her dress on, even if there is two hours til the time she is suppose to go on stage, she doesnt care, she wants to wear her dress.  This is what I get until I finally cave, she follows me around and over and over again asks "Mom, can I put my dress on now?"  "Is it time to put on my dress?"  "Can I please put my dress on now? PPPLLLEEEAASSEEE!"  Most often then not my response is always "Not yet, its still too early, you've got a while to go" after which I would get her signature cross the arms, scowl on the face, very displeased "AHHH MOM!"  Finally I would tell her "Ok, we can get you dressed now" and she would jump around the room, cheer what have you. 

  

Okay, well now the show airs on tv, and this is what the general public sees: 

  

Me saying "ok, we can get dressed now" and then the camera goes to my daughter who is pouting, arms crossed, disspleased and saying "AHHH MOM!" 

  

So naturally, the audience, gasps and says "Awww that poor little girl doesnt even want to get ready!  Look how her Mom is making her do what she doesnt want!" 

  

That my friends, is the wonderful art of television editing, for the sake of creating that "Shock Value" that is needed to increase viewer ratings.  Tactics employed mainly around crutical times in programming (aka Sweeps week! lol)  And THAT is what you base your opinions on. 

  

These pageant moms come on these shows, for the same purest of reasons, they feel THEY are going to be the ones to set the record straight, shed the light on the truth of child pageants and why we and our children enjoy them.  To show the world, they really aren't THAT bad.  NOT because they want to shove their kid further into the spotlight, with national television exposure.  (I am sure the thought of appearing on these shows have ran through all of us pageant moms heads at one time or another, for the reasons I stated, why wouldnt we want to expose the public to the truth, none of us like to be so scrutinized, but then we know what ultimately will become of it and think otherwise.)   

  

These Moms get on the show, and then things like what I stated above happen, and they are left sitting in front of a live, national audience, shocked themselves, cause its running through their heads, "wait thats not what happened!", then they are getting slammed with one accussing question after another, all the while the audience a mere few feet infront of them snicker, sneer, shake their heads in disbelieve, and scowl as if the slime of the earth was sitting before them-and thats not pointing fingers at the audience either, cause thats what they are led to believe.  They feel like they are being put on the spot, and as in any situation like this, its human nature to start to get on the defensive.  And we all know that when we are in that state of mind, we dont nessacarily say exactly what it is we mean to say, or in being so frazzled, things come out sounding quite different then they were intended to, and the whole thing just keeps snowballing from there.  The end result is this perception the public has pf pageantry. 

  

All I ask is to be a bit more open minded, when watching the show tomorrow.  Bonnie is not a monster.  I have never met her personally, spoke with her directly, but have been in the same ballroom.  Nothing I have encountered would make me think otherwise.  I have seen Madison perform on stage and she loves what she does, and it shows.   

 
February 15, 2006, 9:08 am CST

Right back at ya

Quote From: pagntmom06

GREAT post!!! :)
I think that was the most eloquently put your last post. 
 
February 15, 2006, 9:43 am CST

Yes, I'll have a cup of tea!!!

Quote From: themommie

Three pages of comments already and the show has not even aired.  Here is the breakdown for you. 

Non-Pageant people 

1) You base your decisions on what pageants are like on the 10% of the pageant population that you see on TV. 

2) The 10% that normaly are on the shows are mothers and daughters that are extremly involved in pageants or made to look as if they only have focus on pageants. 

3) You see these pictures of little girls that have been photoshoped into little adults and think that is "creepy" 

4) You think that a pedifile is going to be lurking around every pageant waiting to ponce on little girls 

5) You believe that looks should not be something that children are judged on. 

  

Pageant people 

1) You feel that it is the same as a sport or other competition due to the "equipment", practice and professionalism needed to win and be a "name" 

2) You feel backed into a courner because of the negitive views of society about the activity of pageants 

3) You feel like it is not a fair representtation of what your children do because all that is ever shown on TV is the pageant part of the families life the pictures and videos of the child playing soccer, going to visit nursing homes going to school and doing thier personal best in the other aspects of thier lives are never seen. 

4) You think people that attack pageants are hypocritical because they are the same people sitting on the side lines at Little league screaming thier heads off at thier kids to make the goal or hit the ball. 

  

So that about cover it? 

I'm boy pageant mom, I'm also a soccer mom, a T-ball mom, a swimming class mom, a stage mom, a cuddle bugs mom, a homework time mom, a disabled veteran mom, a working mom, a theme park addict mom, a buys to many toys mom, A drop off at the bus stop mom, a dance class mom, a childrens theather mom, a volenteer service mom and so many other things but always a MOM. 

  

There are things that we do so much more in our lives than pageants or acting auditions BUT those will not be shown.  I don't like the negitive side of pageantry but when my son earns the right to go to a pageant or asks to give up a birthday present I was going to get him so he can have his birthday party at a pageant then I give in SOMETIMES. 

  

I don't do the make-up, hair, flippers or tans my Mom makes the clothes and I always make sure that I have tons of fees off so it is not something that is done without it being affordable.   The pictures from pageants and modeling and acting jobs are in the EXTRACURRICULAR scrapbook right along with soccer, t-ball and swimming .   

  

The interaction on this board is a lot of what I am in this between a rock and a hard place because of.  My child asked to do a pageant I ALLOWED it not forced not pushed ALLOWED him to do it .  My child didn't ask to do modeling and acting when he started he was 11 months old but he did show interest and enjoyed being photographed and apperently was learning what the other side of the camera does as well because when he got his first camera at 3 he was posing his friends and doing the "photgrapher stance" it was hillarious!  My child and I do talk now about modeling and acting jobs and I constantly tell him to tell me when he doesn't want to do something and he has and he didn't do it.  He also has NOT BEEN ALLOWED to do castings or bookings because of bad behavior or not finishing his work in school. 

  

I think the main thing is we all love our children non-pageant people and pageant people and we want them to be and do and learn and grow to thier full potential.  Some kids like the feeling they get getting on a stage or just standing the the middle of a group and being the one that is making people smile, laugh or just emote something.  These are kids that starve a part of their self if they don't get the opportunities to fill that desire and passion. 

  

Sports parents I am one of you too kid hated t-ball too much standing arond waiting his turn, loves soccer but I have more video of him danceing in the goal box and running after girls on the other team trying to give a high five than I do of him trying to actually play.  Kids like diffrent things and just because you don't get the excess that sometimes is a part of the extracurricular activity of pageants non-sports parents don't get spending $180 on sports equipment for a child that is going to play for 8 weeks. 

  

I am also a talks to dang much Mom ;-) 

I enjoyed reading your post,  particularly because it sounds like you have read about both sides of the pageant issue, and have tried to understand the thoughts of those who think differently than you on this topic. Your remarks are not condescending or insulting to those who think differently than you do, nor do you make unkind personal comments to  them. You have given a detailed explanation of your family life which I found interesting and enjoyable to read.  I think that when things are presented in this sort of way, people are more likely to "listen" to what the other side has to say. It sounds like you have achieved a nice balance in your family life and that you give your son reasonable choices. No, I haven't changed my views on pageants, but yes, I did "hear" what you had to say. So even though I am not about run out to enter my daughter in a pageant, I'll be happy to have that cup of tea with you!!! (LOL!!!!!) Have a good day!
 
February 15, 2006, 10:21 am CST

Give pageants some credit

I am so sick and tired of talk shows showing pageants in a bad light. They purposelly edit things that have been said or things that happened to make pageants look bad. They are the sole reason pageants have such a bad rap.  

I have been involved in pageants for 10 years, no personally but through a child I used to babysit. I have followed her all through her pageant career from prelimary mall pageants, to large 5 day national competitions. I have watched her go from "mommy hair" to "pageant hair" to falls and extensions and back to "mommy hair" I have seen fake eyelashes, tanning beds, spray tanning and TONS of thousand dollar outfits.  

I have researched effects of pageants, written several papers in both high school and college and even completed my high school graduation project on pageants. I have coached, done hair and make up, sat in during photo shoots, been pageant staff and emcee and judged for several pageants all over the country.  

I have seen and heard the behind the scenes stuff that all children go through in order to have the pageant experience.  

I have come to the conclusion that pageants can be an extremely beneficial activity for children of all ages. However, this does not mean that I feel pageants are for EVERY child. Some children would not be cut out for pageants, would not be brave enough to stand on the stage in front of 10 judges and 100 hundred audience members, some children do not have the poise, grace, confidence or personality that it takes. Just as not every child is cut out to play soccer, be a gymnast or compete in swimming.  

Pageants are great because they give the child so much freedom of choice. They can decide the level of competition, the amount of time spent, even the amount of money and work that is put into it.  

Not everyone uses fake hair, tons of make up and fake teeth. There are some wonderful natural pageants out there that focus more on the child's personality and do not even allow fake tans, pageant hair or clothes or any makeup on young children.
I am proud to be on the staff of one such pageant. 

In all my years involved in the pageant circuit I have seen a few children that did not want to be there, but I can honestly say that I have seen even more children in the outfield or sitting on the bench at a t-ball game that didn't want to be there even more. Children are pushed by their parents all over the world to do activities they don't really want to. Pageants are the one activity where it SHOWS if you do not want to be there! 

Children have so much FUN at pageants. There are parties, ugly dad and pretty mom contests, swimming, sleepovers, and most of all FRIENDS! These children make friends with others from all over the country that they wouldn't ordinarily ever have the chance to meet. They are opened to a whole new world of how people live in other towns, states and even other countries. They are gaining a sociological view on life, as well as a more open mind. They learn about other cultures, how to win and lose graciously and how to always have poise and control.  

For once why don't you ask the child honestly what is their favorite thing about pageants and air their honest to goodness answer?!?! 

 
February 15, 2006, 10:32 am CST

In total agreement!

Quote From: pagntmom06

Little kids don't wear high heels in pageants, teenagers in pageantry do however.  White Leather Mary Janes are worn with their dresses (which I personally purchase right at Stride Rite shoes, a CHILDREN'S shoe store, which last time I've checked was not in the business of selling adult, "sexy" shoes lol) These shoes are  absolutely no different than the little dress shoes ANY little girl wears when they get dressed up for church, Holidays or special occassions.  In swimwear, most go bare foot, some do flip flops (not many) but some, again no high heels.  Casualwear, most wear white keds sneakers that are covered with material or decorated in the same colors to match the outfit they are wearing, some might wear boots, or the mary janes again, in different colors, sandals, depends on the outfit, but in the 3 1/2 years we have been INVOLVED with pageantry (not watching tv shows about the subject from the couch) I have yet to see a CHILD sport a pair of high heels in that event either.  I know my daughter never has, infact every single casualwear outfit she has worn on stage has been with the keds, painted or decorated to match what she was wearing.  Sportswear, use to be Mary Janes or the FLAT dyeables dyed to match the color of their outfits, but since sportswear routines have developed into more of a dance routine, the girls wear jazz shoes, painted or dyed to match.   

  

And I am very sorry but if I saw an adult standing there in a capri/tank outfit in pastels, with lace ribbons and bows with decorated to match shoes, ruffle socks, big hair bows, and poofy pigtails, blowing kisses, doing cutsey dimples, and spinning, wether or not she might be wearing lipstick, Id say Id be a bit concerned and probally make sure I went in the opposite direction lol, as I am sure anyone would.   Now a child, I definately wouldnt stand there and say "Shame, she's trying to act so "Sexy" and if anyone would I am sorry but yeah theres most certainly a problem.  I dont know what kind of Adults you know, but none I have ever encounter act that way. 

I completely agree with you! Young children in pageants do not dress any sexier than the young children I see at McDonalds, the mall or wal-mart every single day. 

What about the 10 year old girls I saw in the bathroom at the movies the other day putting on dark red lipstick and tons of blue eyeshadow and then hiding the make up in their backpack before they went back to their parents??  

At least the pageant girls know to wear make up that looks a little more natural!! 

 
February 15, 2006, 10:34 am CST

Nice Job

Quote From: pagntmom06

I just want to fill you in on how these television shows that potray the "truth" of pageantry to you, actually work. 

  

  

Now if my daughter and I had a film crew following us around a pageant (which would never happen, these things never turn out to be positive)  here is an example of an ACTUAL situation that might pursue: 

  

From the second my daughter wakes up in the am and gets her hair and makeup done, all she wants to do is get her dress on, even if there is two hours til the time she is suppose to go on stage, she doesnt care, she wants to wear her dress.  This is what I get until I finally cave, she follows me around and over and over again asks "Mom, can I put my dress on now?"  "Is it time to put on my dress?"  "Can I please put my dress on now? PPPLLLEEEAASSEEE!"  Most often then not my response is always "Not yet, its still too early, you've got a while to go" after which I would get her signature cross the arms, scowl on the face, very displeased "AHHH MOM!"  Finally I would tell her "Ok, we can get you dressed now" and she would jump around the room, cheer what have you. 

  

Okay, well now the show airs on tv, and this is what the general public sees: 

  

Me saying "ok, we can get dressed now" and then the camera goes to my daughter who is pouting, arms crossed, disspleased and saying "AHHH MOM!" 

  

So naturally, the audience, gasps and says "Awww that poor little girl doesnt even want to get ready!  Look how her Mom is making her do what she doesnt want!" 

  

That my friends, is the wonderful art of television editing, for the sake of creating that "Shock Value" that is needed to increase viewer ratings.  Tactics employed mainly around crutical times in programming (aka Sweeps week! lol)  And THAT is what you base your opinions on. 

  

These pageant moms come on these shows, for the same purest of reasons, they feel THEY are going to be the ones to set the record straight, shed the light on the truth of child pageants and why we and our children enjoy them.  To show the world, they really aren't THAT bad.  NOT because they want to shove their kid further into the spotlight, with national television exposure.  (I am sure the thought of appearing on these shows have ran through all of us pageant moms heads at one time or another, for the reasons I stated, why wouldnt we want to expose the public to the truth, none of us like to be so scrutinized, but then we know what ultimately will become of it and think otherwise.)   

  

These Moms get on the show, and then things like what I stated above happen, and they are left sitting in front of a live, national audience, shocked themselves, cause its running through their heads, "wait thats not what happened!", then they are getting slammed with one accussing question after another, all the while the audience a mere few feet infront of them snicker, sneer, shake their heads in disbelieve, and scowl as if the slime of the earth was sitting before them-and thats not pointing fingers at the audience either, cause thats what they are led to believe.  They feel like they are being put on the spot, and as in any situation like this, its human nature to start to get on the defensive.  And we all know that when we are in that state of mind, we dont nessacarily say exactly what it is we mean to say, or in being so frazzled, things come out sounding quite different then they were intended to, and the whole thing just keeps snowballing from there.  The end result is this perception the public has pf pageantry. 

  

All I ask is to be a bit more open minded, when watching the show tomorrow.  Bonnie is not a monster.  I have never met her personally, spoke with her directly, but have been in the same ballroom.  Nothing I have encountered would make me think otherwise.  I have seen Madison perform on stage and she loves what she does, and it shows.   

This post was very well written and I agree with you completely. Too many pageant moms think they can give the world a better view of pageants and I really wish that was possible. I'd go on a talk show myself if I thought it would help. 

Unfortunately pageants, as far as the rest of America is concerned, has turned into more a witch hunt. No one wants to listen or see the good side, they want the sensationalized side of it! 

 
February 15, 2006, 11:09 am CST

Cheers!

Quote From: juliebgg

I enjoyed reading your post,  particularly because it sounds like you have read about both sides of the pageant issue, and have tried to understand the thoughts of those who think differently than you on this topic. Your remarks are not condescending or insulting to those who think differently than you do, nor do you make unkind personal comments to  them. You have given a detailed explanation of your family life which I found interesting and enjoyable to read.  I think that when things are presented in this sort of way, people are more likely to "listen" to what the other side has to say. It sounds like you have achieved a nice balance in your family life and that you give your son reasonable choices. No, I haven't changed my views on pageants, but yes, I did "hear" what you had to say. So even though I am not about run out to enter my daughter in a pageant, I'll be happy to have that cup of tea with you!!! (LOL!!!!!) Have a good day!

If anyone is changing thier mind it would be me.  The reason I went on the show is because I hate the back biteing and nastyness that rips apart my heart and soul of the 10% that are just hateful and mean.  But on the other side I have puppydog eyes asking to get to go be on the stage. 

  

He did his last pageant the weekend after the taping because I had promised in Aug if he left me alone about pageants till then he could do this one in our hometown. 

  

Honestly the comments for the most part made by non-pageant people are heartfelt and have a purpose based on what they have seen.  The pageant boards and some of the attitudes make it such a toxic environment for me as a parent.  I have done well covering my hurt and anger at things that have been said about my son from him but have busted out several "Pageants Suck".  It just really is not something I can allow him to do anymore as I am fearful that it will become toxic to him as well.  Right now we leave, for him, on a good note he got to do a pageant he wanted to do and I explained that it was his last.  He pouted and what not but it had to be my decision that it was nice for him for the 1 1/2 years he did them but it is time to start soccer again so we really don't have time anyway.   

  

Thanks for the tea it beats the heck out of the vinagar I have gotten from some. 

Hugs 

H&H 

 
First | Prev | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Next | Last