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Topic : 02/21 More Wifestyles

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Created on : Friday, February 17, 2006, 03:07:28 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

Dr. Phil revisits the topic of what makes a good wife. Grant and Kelly first appeared on the show because Grant expected his wife to live up to his demanding standards. He wanted a cleaner house, better meals and a sexier spouse. After seven years, his constant criticism and disappointment had her ready to throw in the towel on trying to become the "perfect wife." Dr. Phil’s first talk with Grant and Kelly caused quite a stir as thousands of viewers wrote in choosing sides. How are Grant and Kelly now? Has Grant abandoned his critical ways and his expectation of having a Stepford wife? And why is he no longer wearing his wedding ring? Talk about the show here.

 

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February 21, 2006, 2:00 pm PST

02/21 More Wifestyles

Quote From: whitneygil

I have been married for 18 months and though my husband doesn't necessarily like it, I am a 21st century wife.  My husband and I both work and we make about the same amount of income.  Though it would be great to be a 50's wife with the house clean, dinner cooked, and the laundry done, the fact of the matter is that times have changed.  All wives aren't stay-at-home moms anymore and even if they are, kids are demanding and frankly more important than the above listed duties.  In my opinion (and my situation), it simply wouldn't be fair for me to work just as hard as my husband outside of the home and then be expected to do all the work at home.  Marriage is a compromise and all the things that come along with it should be too.  If I make half the income, then I should only be expected to do half the housework and cook half the meals.  You also have to consider the kids.  In many cases (and mine), the responsibilities that come along with kids fall mainly on the wife.  I bathe, dress, feed, discipline (etc) my kids more than my husband when, in reality, he should be doing just as much as I do.  Many men, and women think that a relationship and the duties within that relationship should be comparible to that of previous decades, but again TIMES HAVE CHANGED and we need to change along with them!
when both partners work outside the home with full-time jobs, then both partners should share approximately equally in the home responsibilities, including cooking, cleaning, and childcare.  Women who work full-time jobs outside the home and then try to be perfect superwomen housewifes are raising future generations of self-centered men or stressed out women, and more dysfuntional families---generation after generation.  These women with their "superwoman" complexes just don't get it.  You seem to get it. 
 
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February 21, 2006, 2:00 pm PST

PERFORMING TRICK PONY OR WHAT?

I wonder what Kelly's passion IS in life.  I wonder what her identity IS besides mother & wife.  I wonder what she will do after the children are raised and out of the house and she and Grant are together contemplating loading the dishwasher.

Is this all there is in life - task managing?  Is that ok with you?

Grant: what do you regret in life? It's there - search inside yourself.  You can't fix yourself by "fixing" others. Come to grips with what you wish you had done or could do.  I think that's the crux of it, and be honest. Shouldn't the wedding ring symbolize LOVE?  COMMITMENT?  Maybe you don't have it or feel it, and that's why you don't wear the ring.  Are you sure you want to be married?  How did you grow up? Was criticizing a common part of your childhood household? 

Kelly:  you are a human being - have you forgotten?  you have rights as a human being, to be loved and accepted and to fulfill some of your own personal dreams.  What do you do for YOURSELF?  Why is the erosion of your self-esteem OK with you?  Don't tell me you feel good about yourself when you are put down all the time.

Finally: What about the children?  What example does this set for them to see their mother SO devalued by their own father? 

Many questions - be truly introspective and try to be honest with yourselves then share with the other.

 This marriage is really in a sorry state and I imagine the kids feel the pain as well.


 

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February 21, 2006, 2:00 pm PST

Kelly

Quote From: buckleypat

First of all, I have to say I attended this particular show as a live audience member.  And I watched the original Grant and Kelly episode months earlier.   

  

It brought back thoughts to my corporate experience, the term "operational definition".  If, as Dr. Phil says, everything is negotiated (including relationships), then operational definition can be a useful tool in almost any setting.  It is repeatable, understandable, has a "yes" or "no" answer and, in most cases, can be agreed upon by both parties.  If the terms are specific.   

  

As an engineer, Grant should understand that there are two types of data.  Variable and attribute.  Variable is when you have a light dimmer or sound control on the t.v.   It is variably controlled gradually.  Attribute data is binary --  yes or no, on or off.  Did you do something or not?  In a marriage, you definitely need some "bumper room".   Does loading the dishwasher correctly mean all plates are facing in the same direction with all like-sized plates in graduating order?  Does the furniture placed correctly mean perpendicular placement of a sofa x-inches from the wall.   Exactly what does it mean to fold clothes correctly? 

  

I can SO sympathize with Kelly's struggle.  After working for years in the corporate world and being told "well, that could have gone better", I always had the feeling that the boss didn't really know what he or she wanted but that they would know it when they saw it.    

  

Vague terms such as "performed correctly", "more efficient", "do it better", don't fly.  It's up to the person asking for perfection to define very specifically what they expect.  And more importantly, it's up to the person being asked to do the task to specifically define their constraints and resource limitations so that both can agree upon a mutual solution.   

  

  

  

Worried expression because it seem like Kelly is losing self. Meaning she is losing heself. grant has her thinking the only thing she needs to do is "BETTER" better cleaning, better cooking, better furniture placing etc. Kelly knows inher heart all she needs to do is be Kelly and Grant needs to love her for being Kelly. I feel so sorry for her and yes also for him. It is hard to believe that he just does not have a clue. Dr Phil at the end of the show said to write what I feel wife duties are. My answer: Just be yourself. Be the same person I married. Just give what you get and make choices that make you happy and i guarantee that even if i don't agree with some of them I will be happy that they are yours and that you are happy.
 
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February 21, 2006, 2:00 pm PST

What the devil is wrong with Kelly?

 I'm not about to get really far into Grant's anal lifestyle.  He needs a good psychiatric overhall to let go of his rigid, control-dominated, and totally self absorbed approach to life.  I do feel sorry for him.  He seems like a decent guy who has no clue that he is a very troubled person seeking to use his wife as compensation for his inability to cope with normal deviations from the perfect world that does not exist.

My concern is Kelly, and any other woman who sees her role in life as one designed to please a man.  Marriage - to me - is a partnership, not an arrangement between and employer and his subordinate employee.  It is a compact between to people who care enough about each other to try and build a life TOGETHER....and to PLEASE EACH OTHER!.

My oh my, the women's movement has taken a huge step backward when the Stepford Wife becomes a role model for WOMEN.  Hey, men cah dream...they can fantasize about any kind of robotical servant they want.  But for women to buy into the idea that they exist to perform chores rather than create a home... is outrageous.

I've been married for 44 years....to a really marvelous PARTNER... who shares his life with me...and is not chained to gender specific roles.  I'll change a tire as fast as he'll wash dishes, if that's what has to be done and I can do it.  We work as a team.... as two people who respect each other's feelings and enjoy doing things FOR EACH OTHER.....because it's worth anything to see a smile on the other person's face.

We've had all the ups and downs that marriage entails.  We've found ways to deal with the issues that come up...and to put problems into perspective by not focusing on anything that really doesn't make a huge impact on our lives.  We still know that all relationships are works in progress... even after all this time.

Kelly is a pathetic, submissive, subservient child, not an adult, mature, independent woman.  Neither Kelly nor Grant is marriage material.  They have no clue what life is all about....  Grant is into himself big time, and Kelly sees Grant's evaluation as a mirror by which to validate her own worth.

Nuff said.
 
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February 21, 2006, 2:01 pm PST

Life is to short

Grant, are you not thankful for what you have?   

  

If you were diagnosed with a fatal disease, would you be concerned then with how your wife looks/cleans/cooks?  If you were preparing for the end of your time, would you wish you could have more time to let your wife know how happy she made you, by sharing her gifts with you?  Would you take away the criticism that made her unhappy.   

  

Surprise! We are all dying, some are just going a bit faster than others. And when it is all said and done, is it really going to matter where the furniture is located in relation to the wall?  Open your eyes and realize your "potential to perform better".  Good luck to you and your family. 

 
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February 21, 2006, 2:02 pm PST

AMEN!!

Quote From: danette

     A good wife is a helpmate.  What exactly this is varies from marriage to marriage and year to year as circumstances change.  What I know for sure is that being a good wife is directly related to having a good husband.  If a man looks out only for himself and expends as little effort as possible in making a good marriage, he will have a terrible wife because he is a worthless husband. 

     I am a fabulous wife only because I married the most amazing man on the face of the earth.  His first concern every day is to make sure I am happy and cared for.  This makes me want to do everything in my power to make sure of his health and well-being.  The loving attention I get from my husband directly effects the quality of the food he eats, the quality and quantity of the sex he gets, and the cleanliness of the home he lives in.  To anyone else I could very well be a mediocre marriage mate, but this man tells me every day that I am amazing and wonderful and loved.  I believe him. So I am amazing, and wonderful, and loving. 

     So put me in a room with 10,000 women, or the whole world, and I will still know that not one of those women is as well loved as I am. (No offense to Dr. Phil and Robin.) 

     Finally to be a good wife, choose a great husband.  Take your time.  Know yourself.  Like who you are.  And choose someone who has done the same. 

thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking.    And that is great advice!  good for you for saying what you did.
 
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February 21, 2006, 2:02 pm PST

working wives

I think that in today's world, many couples find it necessary to have both parents working.  This is the catch.... if BOTH parents work, then BOTH parents need to pull their weight around the house concerning, children, cleaning, cooking, etc.  If only one parent works, then the parent staying at home should pick up the slack, HOWEVER, if you don't like the way something is done, or if you want something done that is not being done, then DO IT YOURSELF!!!!  I would ask Grant, "have you ever considered organizing the closet yourself, and then requesting her help in keeping it organized?"  There are not enough hours in the day to do all the things that need to be done.  Luckily, my husband consistently helps me with the children, cooking, cleaning, etc.  When he first started helping, I used to be extremely critical.  My mother told me that at least he was trying and I should be thankful that he is doing anything at all.  "MY WAY IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO DO THE HOUSEWORK!"  

  

Katie 

 
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February 21, 2006, 2:02 pm PST

Learn to deal - Glen and Kelly

 I used to think that a spotless house was the most important thing about my home.  I was obsessive about it.  I used to vacuum my house at least twice a day, I had to make sure my oldest daughter's playroom was spotless, everything had a place, even in the toy box.  If she didn't do it correctly, I emptied it and redid it myself.  She is now almost 16, and not quite as tidy as I would prefer, but I have learned to deal with it.   

Then came my second child, and yes I was still quite anal about spotlessness.  Finally came the third, and I just couldn't find the time to be a "good" mother and a spotless house cleaner.  I started to feel like a failure, and thought I was doing it all wrong.  Well, I was.  It was never a priority to my husband and children that the house was spotless, or that dinner was a full home cooked meal every night (which was just so wrong to me).  My husband was more concerned about the effect that it (my compulsiveness) was having on me and our family.  I was not a happy person.  I was constantly picking up and cleaning.  I would get upset with the kids if they took toys out and didn't pick up immediately when they were done.  It was inexcusable to have dirty dishes in the sink, a speck of dirt of dog hair on the floors, toys anywhere but where they "belonged" or any dirty clothes in the hamper.  I started to get depressed because I was overwhelmed and couldn't keep up.  I even started taking the two little one's (now ages 6 and almost 4) to daycare once a week so I could clean the house "thoroughly".  I started to resent my husband cause he would come home from work, eat dinner (which was ready and waiting on the table) and spend the rest of his time doing things with the children until they went to bed.  Basically I was jealous that he seemed to have so much time with the children, and I was the one home with them all day.   

Well, over the past 3 years I (with my husbands encouragement) have learned that the children are growing up way too fast, and that before we know it they'll be out on their own.  My oldest is almost 16 and I feel that I missed so much time with her because a "spotless house" was so important to me.  Thankfully though I have learned that a "clean house" is more important than a "spotless" house.  It's not easy to see things disturbed, but I have learned that when it starts getting to me, I sit down and play with my children, read a book or color with them or have a nice talk with my oldest (we have become very close).  I now realize how much I enjoy my children and my husband and especially our family time together. Our time together as a family is the most important thing in our lives.  Everyone in our home is now more relaxed and happier.  There will always be a house to clean, but our children only grow up once, and I needed to make time with them and time with my husband my priority.  We all chip in together now to do the daily cleaning, so we have the rest of the day to spend together.  I have even been amazed that I can even find time for myself now too.   

I just hope that Glen and Kelly learn that there is no such thing as the "perfect wife", or the "perfect husband" but that they are a team and that they have to love themselves and each other to be the best wife, husband and parents that they can be.  From experience, it takes time, patience and understanding from both to make the adjustments that can make them a happy couple and family.  Good Luck! 

 
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February 21, 2006, 2:02 pm PST

I Agree Whole Heartedly

Quote From: girlgeek1

Dr. Phil, to reach Grant, you're going to have to think like an engineer. He doesn't speak "people." He speaks electrical systems--not even mechanical or biological systems. Electrical systems can run almost 24 X 7 with little or no maintenance. Mechanical and bio systems can't. They need to be maintained, repaired, and fueled. And you know how much more complicated people are! 

  

Grant is probably a really good engineer. He wants to understand and control things. He knows that the first step in engineering is to write a specification and then measure a solution's variance from the specification. 

  

But his wife isn't a technical product, and neither is his marriage. I admire his wife for trying to live up to his specifications, but they are not realistic. Her truth came out when she said she chooses to read her child a book rather than do a few more minutes of cleaning to perfection, much as she'd like a perfectly clean house. But that wouldn't be a home. 

  

His specifications don't include anything about the kids. He clearly has no idea how to deal with them; they certainly don't perform to spec. And he has no idea how much work it is to raise kids. 

  

Perhaps the next steps could be to draft a spec for all of the Mom duties, right down to packing bookbags and lunches, arranging play dates, etc. Dealing with disruptive events like a naked toddler running outside, or kids with chicken pox, also need to be on the list (since they require the system to have flexibility). Then, assign a time estimate to all of the items on both his wife specification and the Mom spec. It would rapidly show that there are at least 3 long days' worth of work for every day. 

  

Part of engineering is figuring out what is core functionality and what is "nice to have." Grant hasn't figured out the difference. If the kids are clean, fed, developing normally, and happy, then that is a core success.  If the refrigerator has good food in it and the cars have gas, then that's a core success. If his wife smiles when she sees him walk in the door in the evening, that's a core success.   

  

Having the pantry organized to visual perfection is not core.  Being able to dance a certain way is not core. But including those things as requirements means that there isn't time to perform on other (real) requirements. 

  

And if he wants the pantry door to open 90 degrees, he can darned well put up hooks on the back to raise the mops & Swiffer up off the floor.  That's not core and it is something he can improve without even spending much money or time.  

  

But I think he'd find more satisfaction if he could watch some men interact with their kids--and wives. Maybe he could see some happiness from just being together...not from requiring order and control at all times. I suspect he is a perfectionist who thinks everything will be fine if the world just does things his way. (Yes, I work with lots of EEs). The messiness of the real world is very frightening and chaotic for him. 

  

He might also learn something from writing down what he thinks his kids will remember of him when he's gone. Will they remember a perfect pantry? Or reading together? Or playing games in the yard, even if it meant they got messy? That list might be a good starting point for dialogue.  

  

Right now, Grant sees nothing wrong with his specification. It makes perfect sense to him. It is what he wants and expects. He's angry that the wife he chose can't live up to his specification. That's probably where his anger is really coming from...he's probably angry that he made an imperfect choice. And he probably thinks that doing something emotional, like falling in love, is the reason that his choice was imperfect. 

  

Until he sees that the specification can't be met by any one person, he won't accept that it is not helping. You need to help him see that some specs can't be built. If he can understand that there isn't enough time to do everything perfectly, maybe they can get some agreement on what things to buy or not do so they can focus on whatever they agree is really "core." That may mean getting a sitter, getting a cleaning service a couple times a month, or whatever.  

  

Right now, they're stuck. Until someone can reach Grant in his own language, they'll stay stuck. 

  

Good luck! 

  

geekgirl1 

You are absolutely correct geekgirl1.  He needs to be told in his own language so he can understand.  Marriage is an equal partnership.  He's treating his marriage as he treats his job.  I totally agree with everything you wrote.  You have hit the nail right on the head.  Good job. 

  

Kesstra 

 

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February 21, 2006, 2:04 pm PST

Tell the husband to help.

I think he needs to be more hands on in the home and helping his wife. She has a really hard job taking care of the children and cleaning and cooking. I think todays young families are totally unprepared for making a home and working and doing what is needed. It takes two incomes nowadays to live and it takes two in the home to live. I think this man had everything done for him by mama and now he expects it done the same way. Parents today are not doing justice to their kids by not teaching them how to do things whether they are boys or girls teach them to cook clean do laundry run the vacuum so that whether they are married or single they can have clean homes.  Tv does do an injustice to the expectations of young people you never see a slobby house unless that is the story line.
 
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