Topic : 02/21 More Wifestyles

I appreciate the fact that there is someone else out there that can see this from a different point of view. I come from a family full of engineers, and I have to admit that I don't think that Grant is the jerk that everyone thinks he is. An engineers thought process is VERY different than everyone else's. I really don't think that he is trying to be unreasonable, he just sees things completely different than Kelly. Grant just needs to have it explained to him in a different way and I think that Dr. Phil did a great job getting that started. When he said on the show that he didn't understand what "it" is, he really means it, he doesn't understand. Not because he is a jerk, just because he doesn't understand.  Haven't any of you been in a situation where some explains something to you (such as a math problem) and you absolutely don't get it, then someone else comes along and explains the same problem to you in a different way and all of the sudden it makes sense? That's how it is for Grant. The problem is that no one has been able to explain it to Grant in a way that he can get it. 

Having said that, I do think that he is hard on Kelly, but I think that he can change. I am also a stay at home mom and I would go crazy if my husband did the things that Grant does. I just think that it will take time and patience to help Grant see things from Kelly's point of view. I do believe that he is trying.  

Kelly and Grant, I wish you both the best. 

I think that you understand my point, but am not sure.  Let me try to clarify my feelings towards the situation a little.  I think with so many posts sometimes my basic "arguements", for lack of a better term, get muddled.  O.k.  My feeling is this, a stay at home mom does not have to do anything, but for the sack of the family there are certain things that she could do to make the entire family run smoother.  I don't believe that just because a man brings home a pay check he should come home, make a mess and the wife pick up after him.  If a stay at home person says, I want to do these things better, than they should be held accountable.  If they have trouble, then they need to ask for help.  Accountablity is the issue for me.  If you are having more bad days than good, there may be something askew with your organization, which seems to be the issue in Kelly and Grants house.  My viewpoint isn't skewed.  In fact, because of the issues my husband and I have had, I am able to look at things with a more clear perspective.  Both Kelly and Grant have things that they need to work on.  Kelly seems to be passive-aggressive and Grant seems to want things done only in a certain way.  They both need to get beyond this.  Also, there is a point with how much you throw yourself only into your children and how little you pay attention to your husband.  There is always room for renegotiation in our house.  My husband doesn't order me around, but he does hold me accountable for the things I say I am going to do, which I think is necessary from someone you love.  I also hold him accountable for the things he says he is going to do.  I hope that this helped clear things up a bit.  I am always willing to answer questions though. 

Take care,  

Amy 

You know, Amy, I think your viewpoint is skewed in a pretty weird way.  In 28 years that my husband and I have been together, I have never had to "hold my husband accountable" nor has he had to with me.  I have also never seen such a situation within my acquaintance and family (I have 5 remaining siblings-all successful in long term marriages). 

I don't discount the idea that if someone in a marriage is just irresponsible and lazy, maybe their spouse has to do something to "hold them accountable" -I don't know what...remove his wedding ring?? 

That certainly isn't the usual case nor one that is very healthy.  When we are talking about grown ups who behave in a responsible manner, there should be a partnership not a hierarchy.  We don't need to be double checking that we are doing our best, we are assuming it.  

And you have repeated several times that if someone has more bad days than good, they need to be "accountable"....how about the idea that they just need some help??  I know when my practice grew and my assistant was putting in overtime, I hired an assistant for her -cheaper than overtime and healthier for all of us.  How would it have helped my staff member if I suggested she be more organized? 

I thought this site was...interesting -lol 

http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/introduction.html 

If a stay at home person says, I want to do these things better, than they should be held accountable.  If they have trouble, then they need to ask for help.  Accountablity is the issue for me.  If you are having more bad days than good, there may be something askew with your organization, which seems to be the issue in Kelly and Grants house 

Amy, although we have found some common ground, I so strongly disagree with this, I must respond.  

First of all, The organization or disorganization of the house is not THE issue. Go read through the Dr. Phil summaries of both these shows and see if you can understand why Dr. Phil turned the discussion away from the house and towards Grant's attitudes. Organizing the house better will NOT solve their problems. 

Secondly, The issue of your spouse "holding you accountable" is a little offensive to me. Why does one spouse get to decide what the other spouse's potential should be in any area. Yes, there are "deal breakers" in a marriage, but pantry organization and cooking skills are not deal breakers. IMO, deal breakers are physical, emotional, verbal abuse - recklessly jeopardizing the physical, emotional, or financial security of your family - harmful addictions - a radical change in values - or, in most cases, infidelity.  

You mention your own past marital discord, and I'm sure that must have been quite painful. However, when I read your posts, I find myself hoping that you are giving us a very minimal view of what your problems were. Forgive my frankness, but if your husband filed for divorce over filled trash cans and some clutter while you were dealing with the demands of two very small children - well, that just sounds petty to me.  

In your posts, you seem genuinely perplexed by happily married people who don't have detailed, set in stone expectations of each spouse's role. Please forgive me if I have gotten too personal, I think you know I don't intend to attack you. I am puzzled to why you need to cling to this notion of accountability and clearly defined expectations. 

For the record, I think you have a very healthy view on life and marriage.  

I never responded to the post where you told me about your chronic illnesses. WOW! I know people with one disease or the other, each can be brutal. I can't imagine both. Good for you for keeping your wit and wisdom (and after reading some of your other posts, your umm romantic priorities!!LOL).  

Dear Grant and Kelly,  

I just have a couple of ideas for you. Kelly - you said that you would like to cook and decorate - how about Grant watching the kids and you can take some classes? It would help you to get out of  the house and Grant might get closer to his children.  

Grant - please keep the engineering at work and not at home. As Dr. Phil is so fond of saying, home should be a safe place to land. Surely when you discuss ideas with your coworkers you don't speak to them in a condescending manner. If there is one person you should go out of your way to be polite to and with, it is with your wife/husband.  

If you truly don't care for the pink kitchen, how about having an intelligent conversation with your wife and reach a compromise? If you like stark white and she likes pink - with  what color can you both agree?  

Your marriage will be a compromise from day one. But, please I can see that you truly love Kelly, else why would you go on T.V. to discuss your lives? Perhaps you could both get away for a weekend - to neutral territory - and talk about how YOU would like to be treated? Both of you.  I know you've heard a lot about how Kelly wants to be treated. She just wants you to love her and stop treating her like the village idiot. Surely you have expectations of how you would like to be treated? 

Just think about it.  A couple of ideas...Thanks for listening  

 I have to take JUDYBLUE22's side on this- marriage is NOT a hierarchy in which we "hold each other accountable".  You say there is room for "renegotiation" yet you expect to be held accountable- that is very contradictory.  Also, if onen partner or the other decides to lose weight, start working out etc. then if they don't the other needs to "hold them accountable"- exactly how does that work?  All of us have things we could or want do better but "accountability" is not something I'd even consider.  Yes, I remind my husband if he said he'd do this or that and it's not done but I try to look at what he does do.  Next, what if Kelly did ask for help?  Grant has made it clear that he is not going to hire anyone to do anything he feels is "her job" as a SAHM.  That's my issue- he wants to be right instead of helping her out.  I don't see anything wrong with Kelly saying "Let's get a housekeeper twice a month" until the kids are a little older and more independent to start helping.  Or, maybe he could take her out to eat more often if he doesn't like her cooking.  If he were to take an ACTIVE role in helping her with constructive ideas maybe just maybe she might want to spend time with him.  Personally, I can't imagine being in that situation but to each his own.  I do not believe his so-called support comes from a pure place.  He uses that he's an engineer as an excuse to be the way he is.  Not acceptable.