Topic : 02/21 More Wifestyles

I didn't change to save my marriage.  When we seperated I began to ask myself questions.  The first being, are the things that my husband is pointing out realy outrageuous?  If I do change these things am I doing them to be better for him or would these things make me a better person?  What I realized is that the things that he would talk to me about were things that would make me a better person, even without him.   Then I moved on to whether or not I wanted to stay married to him.  Hypothetical question.  The person I am seeing tells me he wants to have children.  I agree.  He proposes, we get married and then I say "you know what, I decided I just don't want to have children anymore."  What position has that left him in?  I tell my husband, before we get married, I want to have children.  I want to take care of the children and our home.  I want that responsability.  Then we get married, have children and I decide it's too much work.  I don't want to do it anymore.  Is it my husbands fault that I am not doing what I said I would?  Should he be allowed to be upset about this?  Frustrated?  Angry?  There are choices that people make that bring other people into the situation.  That allow people to count on them to follow through with their choices because that is the lifestyle that was choosen.  I am not, nor have I ever said that being a stay at home mom was easy,  but you don't just give up when it gets too hard.  You and anyone else can say what you will about my marriage.  You have every right to your opinions, but opinions are not truth.  Only my husband and I know what the truth is in our relationship and if your opinion is to not give creedence or weight to the things that I have stated, again it is your choice.  I just feel bad for you that you can't take someone elses story and possibly learn from it without looking at a time frame. 

By the way, Grant didn't club Kelly over the head, grab her by the hair and drag her on to Dr. Phil like a caveman, she walked on stage just like everyone else. 

no

no

I am sorry to hear that. You seem to be a reasonable man. I really am routing for you and Kelly.  

  

I got out of a marriage of almost nine years almost two years ago.  I thought I would never marry again.  I wanted nothing to do with men because my ex husband led me to believe they are all jerks.  I was wrong.  There are good men out there, they are just sometimes really hard to find.  I don't want to be rude or ugly here, but in the spirit of Dr. Phil's "no nonsense" attitude, doesn't sound like you found yourself a good one.  He may be a good person but he isn't a very good husband.  Anyone that wants to control another person has a problem.  It's not you.  It's him.  There is nothing wrong with you.  Obviously he liked what he saw in you and fell in love with you.  The things he requires of you are clearly a means to control which is indicative of his insecurities.  What you describe is far more controlling than what I went through with my ex.  But, he was controlling nonetheless.  It all boils down to the same thing.  He sees you as something wonderful that's why he married you.  He's afraid that other men will see how wonderful you are too and he might lose you to another so he's changing you to satisfy his own fear of that.  It's his way of ensuring that you aren't going anywhere, that you will stay with him.  Why some men do this is beyond me when the answer to security in your relationship is so simple.  My fiance quotes this from his grandfather, "never stop courting a woman, it will pay back ten fold."  How true is that?  I don't care if you've been dating a woman for six month, married for six years or sixty years.  If you always care for her as if she could and would walk away from you tomorrow, your rewards will be ten times your effort.  If he would only bring her flowers for no good reason other than to brighten her day, would she not be anxious to show him how much she loves him?  hint hint...if he only took the initiative to bath the kids or do the dishes or rub her feet or shoulders for the simple purpose of showing her that she is important and he understands it's a partnership, not just his wife is there to take care of him, would she not go out of her way to care for him even moreso?  It's so simple and so easy and most women are very loyal and compassionate...we are care takers.  If only they gave back a little of that, they'd get so much more in return and in those positive actions, they'd be reassured that we aren't going anywhere.  Instead, they control which eventually will lead to rebellion because to try to control a woman tells her you think she is incapable, irresponsible, untrustworthy and frankly STUPID, which leads to their biggest fear: the loss of their wife.  DUH!  I'm not going to suggest you leave because I think no one should give that advice unless they are qualified to do so.  I can say that I was in a marriage just as unhealthy of yours and finally that was my choice.  Mostly because I didn't want my daughters to look at my marriage and think that is healthy.  I don't want to see them end up with a husband that will treat them as their father treated me.  We teach by example!  Remember that!  Ask yourself if you would want your daughters to live in a marriage like yours?  Because, you are showing them that is what marriage is.  You need to ask yourself if you would be better off without him, happier without him?  The best option would be to make it work out but he has to want to, not for you, for him because he recognizes that his behavior is toxic to your marriage.  If he is willing to listen to you and work hard to make the marriage successful, that would be ideal.  Just know that you can't do it alone, it takes two to make it work.  I wish you the best of luck and I know I have rambled but I hope something in here is helpful to you.  Think of your children first, yourself second and you will make the right choice for all of you.

I got out of a marriage of almost nine years almost two years ago.  I thought I would never marry again.  I wanted nothing to do with men because my ex husband led me to believe they are all jerks.  I was wrong.  There are good men out there, they are just sometimes really hard to find.  I don't want to be rude or ugly here, but in the spirit of Dr. Phil's "no nonsense" attitude, doesn't sound like you found yourself a good one.  He may be a good person but he isn't a very good husband.  Anyone that wants to control another person has a problem.  It's not you.  It's him.  There is nothing wrong with you.  Obviously he liked what he saw in you and fell in love with you.  The things he requires of you are clearly a means to control which is indicative of his insecurities.  What you describe is far more controlling than what I went through with my ex.  But, he was controlling nonetheless.  It all boils down to the same thing.  He sees you as something wonderful that's why he married you.  He's afraid that other men will see how wonderful you are too and he might lose you to another so he's changing you to satisfy his own fear of that.  It's his way of ensuring that you aren't going anywhere, that you will stay with him.  Why some men do this is beyond me when the answer to security in your relationship is so simple.  My fiance quotes this from his grandfather, "never stop courting a woman, it will pay back ten fold."  How true is that?  I don't care if you've been dating a woman for six month, married for six years or sixty years.  If you always care for her as if she could and would walk away from you tomorrow, your rewards will be ten times your effort.  If he would only bring her flowers for no good reason other than to brighten her day, would she not be anxious to show him how much she loves him?  hint hint...if he only took the initiative to bath the kids or do the dishes or rub her feet or shoulders for the simple purpose of showing her that she is important and he understands it's a partnership, not just his wife is there to take care of him, would she not go out of her way to care for him even moreso?  It's so simple and so easy and most women are very loyal and compassionate...we are care takers.  If only they gave back a little of that, they'd get so much more in return and in those positive actions, they'd be reassured that we aren't going anywhere.  Instead, they control which eventually will lead to rebellion because to try to control a woman tells her you think she is incapable, irresponsible, untrustworthy and frankly STUPID, which leads to their biggest fear: the loss of their wife.  DUH!  I'm not going to suggest you leave because I think no one should give that advice unless they are qualified to do so.  I can say that I was in a marriage just as unhealthy of yours and finally that was my choice.  Mostly because I didn't want my daughters to look at my marriage and think that is healthy.  I don't want to see them end up with a husband that will treat them as their father treated me.  We teach by example!  Remember that!  Ask yourself if you would want your daughters to live in a marriage like yours?  Because, you are showing them that is what marriage is.  You need to ask yourself if you would be better off without him, happier without him?  The best option would be to make it work out but he has to want to, not for you, for him because he recognizes that his behavior is toxic to your marriage.  If he is willing to listen to you and work hard to make the marriage successful, that would be ideal.  Just know that you can't do it alone, it takes two to make it work.  I wish you the best of luck and I know I have rambled but I hope something in here is helpful to you.  Think of your children first, yourself second and you will make the right choice for all of you.

Nyakan, re your idea that... "He's afraid that other men will see how wonderful you are too and he might lose you to another so he's changing you to satisfy his own fear of that.  It's his way of ensuring that you aren't going anywhere, that you will stay with him." ...  

  

  

 

  

…Even though Grant's behavior may have symptoms in common with your ex's (sorry to hear about that), I don’t get the impression that his motivations are this complex.  I don't think that he has that kind of emotional complexity even available to him.  Rather he seems actually quite well intentioned - just terribly misguided and using approaches which don’t work.  

  

  

 

  

I believe that in Grant's case it is neurological.  That's why his behaviour seems so flabbergasting to the majority of people, yet reasonable to him.   For more about what I suspect is going on, please see this post: "Grant seems to have OCPD / Aspergers traits" - http://www.drphil.com/messageboard/topic/561/msg/id/271428/#271428

  

 

  

Nonetheless, it is very true that a 'good person' does not necessarily a 'good spouse' make.  (BTW, I have experienced this myself in a partner – yes, another engineer!)  Even the most sincere intentions, when coupled with a deep lack of insight and aptitudes essential to everyday human functioning, will still have very negative outcomes.  It’s frustrating/upsetting for ALL parties.  I really think that Grant simply doesn't understand, and that the completeness of this block means that it is almost certainly largely neurological in nature.

  

 

  

This is not the same as saying it can't be gotten around - that Grant can't learn his way out, at least somewhat.  I really hope that he does, because extreme traits usually have extreme positive manifestations as well as negative ones - which may even have been what Kelly fell in love with.  I do hope that he succeeds, else it will be a terrible waste of potential of two great people.

  

 

  

“The absence of self-awareness, unfortunately, robs a person of the capacity to know it.”

  

 

  

DB 

Wow - where must you live that sometimes it takes 5 months to get a show? 

We'll know how the present season of 24 ends before you ever see the opening episodes. 

You could almost buy the box set of the season's DVDs at Walmart before the show begins airing in your neighborhood. That must really be a drag. 

I am always proud to wear my wedding ring just as mu hubby is. We NEVER take our rings off. We love each other no matter what. Sure, we have had conflicts and issues but no way on this green earth could any one convince me that taking off my wedding ring could be the best thing. In wearing the wedding ring, it is a reminder of our love and committment to one another and it also shows the world that we are committed and proud to be with the one that we are with. I honestly think it is selfish and mean to not wear the ring of a spouse over the fact that because things are not perfect and as one thinks they should be, I would feel very hurt if my husband came in and told me that he was no longer wearing his ring, and I believe he would feel the same way if I did that.

Grant, 

  

You are the ultimate Gutless Wonder. 

  

Posters have made an effort to understand your point of view, have tried offering advise, have yelled at you, pleaded with you and yet you continue on your blight-less, head-in-the-cloud, "are you talking to me?" attitude.  When someone puts forward an opposing view, you dismiss it.  If they make a reference to geography and how the show did not air yet, you make some pithy comment about 24 and Jack's doings.  At least Jack is doing something.  You, on the other hand, do Jack-s**t! 

  

In my last two posts to this board I became sarcastic and stated that I could do it all, even play the hotty with my tool belt on.  You again, refused to show us your shameful list of 75 items saying that it had no value compared to my wonder-woman tool kit.  Fess up, Bucko.  You know you're a misogynist, a tyrant and childish.  As Kelly is no longer permitted to access this board (remember my comment "can Kelly come out to play?") and that you are feeding your teeny-tiny ego with trolling this board for more attention, I suggest you get a divorce and give this woman a chance at happiness with someone else.  She sure a s hell isn't going to be happy with the likes of you! 

  

YOU ARE A LOST CAUSE!