Topic : 02/21 More Wifestyles

Sorry, my home computer just doesn't talk with this site for some reason.  I think we all have a core value about order and cleanliness.  You must have been to someone's home before and looked around and said to yourself, "I couldn't live like this".  

  

I don't know if a level of order and cleanliness is a core value like honesty and family togetherness, but it is important to me. I won't waste my time cleaning but I must have a clean home so I hire it done. That idea seems to make all the homemakers crazy, but it really isn't such an "out there" solution.  Maybe it is because I don't have any emotional issues around tidiness. 

  

If Grant's core belief isn't "my house must be tidy and meals made well" but it is really "If I work full time, my wife should keep the house to my satisfaction" and he feels disrespected and taken advantage of if his standard isn't achieved, then they can't just solve the problem as easily because it is clear that Kelly has a conflicting core value about spending time with her children and making their childhood wonderful. 

  

Sigh-it makes me grateful for my marriage, flawed as it has been. 

  

I agree with you that they both have  

Hi Kelly, I hope you are taking care of yourself and getting some help, hopefully. Let us know how you are doing,because your perspective is helpful,too. Thanks. Hope Dianas daughter recovered from the head injury OK. I was concerned to read Grants post about " what is it costing you in terms of your real self to be in the relationship or are you having to give up who you really are to be in it? " For him, it would help to give up some of the perfectionist stuff and make him a better person and I'm afraid het thinks he's losing his real self to give that up. or his "perfect self" . It's part of who he is and has advantages at work, but not necessarily at home.He said it weighed heavily on his mind. About giving up his real self to be in the relationship. He's getting better but I agree with the poster who said reality is the way life really is vs. life the way we would like it to be. The closer we get to accepting life the way it is , the happier we'll be. If he put an ad in match.com and said wanted, atractive fun lady to have life and kids with , but  include the "LIST" :>)    that would be the end of THAT ad I'm sure!!!! NO ONe would answer it!!! I think he's working on it  and getting better. Let us know how YOU are,too. Hey, I have relatives that straighten pictures on the wall if they are a little crooked so I can relate!!!! It is much more common than one might think so not like he purposely is that way -it's a control issue and very hard to change. He feels like he's giving up something major and really he's gaining so much more- 3 kids, a wife, and a family. What's the song called -"nice work, if you can get it? " meaning the family part. :>) That's the important part of life anyway, our relationships no matter what form -friends, relatives,etc. PS. I'm married to an engineer too.:>) He wants me to sort thru my craft stuff and organize it !!!!!:>) Bye for now...

I have experienced that  on both ends of the spectrum.  I have a friend whose home is soooo cover of House Beautiful perfect that I am very uncomfortable so much as walking across her floor (especially with my monkeys in tow!) I also have an aunt whose house is so dirty you can smell the dirt!  

  

Here is a recent quote from Grant        I was so sure eight months ago that there was one way to do things. Pick any common household task, and in that previous state of mind I would argue why the task had to be executed a certain way. Not only was the end result held to rigid standards, but I wanted to control the process that got the job done as well.  

  

I think for a while Grant had a subconscious core belief that everything should be done HIS way to HIS satisfaction. I think he's making a tremendous effort to let go of that line of thinking, but he is struggling because he is still not happy AND he is questioning whether he is giving up too much and not feeling like he is getting enough in return. I don't think the need to be in complete control is a valid core value if you plan to co-exist with another person. 

  

A couple of things happened this weekend that are quite relevant to this topic. I met a friend of my in-laws, whose four children are very close in age. They are all grown now, but because two are twins, they had 4 under 4! She raised her kids in the fifties, and struck me as very traditional, conservative, Midwestern. I asked her how hard it was to keep up with her home when her kids were small. She looked at me as if I had two heads! "Did you not get that I had 4 young children at once?? It was impossible to keep up with the house." I still thinks Grant needs something of a reality check before he laminates his list of core values! 

  

I also questioned my own high horse on this topic and asked my husband to be brutally honest about his opinion of my own homemaking efforts. I really have the world's greatest husband! He replied that if we were to concentrate on improving anything, we should focus on having more family time. Gourmet meals and a perfect home are nice, but there are other priorities. Luckily, we have pretty similar views about order and cleanliness, and we also are not afraid to hire help. 

  

  

Hi Everyone, 

Been away for awhile.  We had visitors, the computer crashed and we had to go out of town.  I just wanted to say something about your last paragraph.  I think anyone should be asking their spouse what it is that they can do better because a marriage is also about taking care of your spouse the best way you can.  It helps create a better home.  It is possible for people to take advantage of that, but I would much rather give in the hopes that it will be reciprocated than not try out of fear of being taken advantage. 

I think that too many times couples do not discuss these things before they get married.  Then they run into problems and it becomes a battle of control, which is where I think Grant and Kelly are to a certain degree. 

I totally agree that you have to periodically check in with your spouse and say "how are we doing? Is there anything we need to be concerned about, working on, etc." In fact my husband is better about this than I am. He's always asking me if he's helping enough, if I'm getting enough personal time. 

  

If you read the quote from Grant that I copied in my post, you can see how difficult it would be to have such a conversation with someone with that mindset. I don't even think he would be necessarily "taking advantage" either, but rather he was so entrenched in his VERY specific, right way of thinking, that Kelly would never be able to satisfy him unless she was a robot, specifically programmed by him. 

  

The funny thing is, the more I know my husband cares about me feeling satisfied in our relationship, the less the petty stuff matters. His job demands ebb and flow, but we do go through periods where he seems more married to his job than to me. I can start to get cranky about it. If he comes to me on his own and states that he is aware that he's not pitching in much at home and leaving me on my own a lot, I somehow stop minding as much. It works for him too. We have been completely screwed up with the time change, naps are off schedule, and I am out of my rhythm. Meals have been more "assembled" than prepared, but I know it and hubby's okay. 

  

I have to admit, my husband was a bachelor for quite a while before we met. Simply having someone else do his laundry or worry about is meals is still a bonus for him. I'm hoping to ride that train for a while ~ grin. 

Yes, it's me and we are back from the land of beautiful mountains and crashing seas!  WOW !  What an adventure!  All I can say is, traveling with little ones can be really rough!  The ride out was awesome...yet once we left the plane it all went downhill!  With interfering grandparents and Aunties it was a rough trip.  Howver, I'm glad we did it but am glad to be home, too.  I have browsed some of the messages and am happy to see some of you back on the boards..Judyblue22 and others.  My take on core beliefs and dealbreakers is this: 

  

There is a price to pay for everything.  My hubby (for example) is not rich therefore I have always had to work.  In exchange, he truly helps (or tries to) with the house.  He does dishes (no dishwasher) and has been known to clean the cat box once in a while, too, and takes out the trash.  For me, that's OK- I help with bills and he helps with the house.  IF I were home things would be different.  However, the BASIC core level of cleanliness in the house would not change.   Some women HAVE to be home no matter what and they're willing to push the hubby no matter what the price.  To me, it's too high if hubby is never home.  Dealbreakers are different for everyone.  For me , it's abuse in any way shape or form.  Verbal is not OK.  I value myself and my self esteem enough not to allow that.  I also think that if you love someone a common base of courtesy should be expected/received.  Some women (again) feel it's OK and they should adjust "how they hear things" or "receive it differently".  I feel this is the area about how much to give before you lose yourself.  I can see Grant's view but the same goes for Kelly.  That doesn't excuse his way of putting his wife down.  He can disguise it however he wants but it's the same result- he is not happy with how she does things.  Yes, women are emotional and all that but as a husband/provider/friend he has an expectation to be tactful and flexible and do what's best for the FAMILY- not just him.  I've said it before and I'll say it again....take a look at the character of a man that would take his wife on TV to show/tell America how she's lacking.  He's been given advice and tips and still can't seem to pull it together.  I truly hope they are doing better yet I don't think Kelly's self esteem can be repaired.   

In reply to:  Would someone out there please try to reconcile what I see as the discrepancy between being true to yourself and your core beliefs (authentic self) and allowing your partners happiness to trump everything? Honestly, I think this is one of the tough issues that I haven't been able to resolve. Anyone else willing to take a shot at it (and put it into simple terms, with examples and the "connect-the-dot" dots placed close together).  

 

Grant - this is something I have given a lot of thought to myself. I don't think your partner's happiness is based on letting her have her way. You don't have to allow the house to be a pig's sty just so she will be happy. But what you can do is to pitch in at times or offer to her to take the kids somewhere so she can have some focused cleaning time - maybe get in a routine of this being the same day every week. I can tell you that I would LOVE that!  You don't have to abandon your core beliefs or your true self in order to make your wife feel respected and appreciated. You have to find your own way - your own style to let her see the respect you feel for her. If you are looking at this problem from an engineer's perspective, you might say to yourself that what I am doing is not working - I have to try something else. There is more than one way to achieve your goals without losing your mind. My husband told me recently that how loved he feels is his measure of a man - it's the measuring stick by which he decides how good of a man he is. But that measuring device speaks nothing of the people who he interfaces with. I can make him feel loved but never get anything in return - does that make him a good man? But what if his measure of manhood was in how loved he made ME feel or others feel? When you make others feel good, the gesture is often reciprocated. Making her feel loved and special will make her want to do more to please you. But you have to find what matters most to her - it's not just in the words that you say - it's in the things that you do. And the little things you can let go - like how the diswasher is loaded. Just find happiness in the dishes being clean. The tiny bit extra you will spend on the water or electric bill is worth the peace you'll have in the house. Choose your battles carefully and approach them as a friend.  

 

I came across this excerpt from Rolling Stone's interview with Kiefer Sutherland (the entire interview is on Fox's 24 website - yes. I lurk there pretty regularly).  I thought of you and how much

you have in common with Jack's portrayer... a little eerie. Hope you enjoy it...but don't abuse it....notice the part where he LIVES ALONE and has had FAILINGS AS A BOYFRIEND!!! But also, take some comfort that you are not alone in your struggles!

 

 

Cheers - Julie

 

Kiefer has at times led a kind of messy life, but his home suggests an almost obsessive attachment to order. Nothing is out of place. His bed is made and looks freshly plumped; the pack of Camel filters on the bedside table has been set down square to the corners. No dirty dishes or food crumbs mottle his kitchen sink. His guitar collection is neatly arranged according to make and body style.

Eventually, this attention to neatness comes up during a discussion about his various possible failings as a boyfriend.

"I think I'm pretty demanding as a person," he says. "I like things to be a certain way, everything from being on time to being tidy. I haven't been flexible with that. I mean, as I've gotten older, I've hopefully become a lot more flexible. But, of course, I am living alone."

"Does disorder bother you?" I ask.

"I had the 24 cast over for dinner one night and I heard that Reiko Aylesworth, who played Michelle, said, 'It's so nice that he cleaned up his place.' Someone else said, 'He didn't clean it up for you, honey. It's always this clean.' And her response was, 'Ewwww.' But there's so much disorder in every other aspect of what we do, if you can control your environment at home, you do it."