Topic : An Open Consideration of Reality and Religious Beliefs

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Created on : Friday, March 03, 2006, 09:33:47 am
Author : trtlelove

For the record, this topic has been posted to accomodate many threads that tend to end up discussing religion and our beliefs about God, etc.   We would like to maintain an open and peaceful tone for all to participate and simply share their points of view and experience, exchanging ideas, asking and answering each other's questions, etc.

 

From my own personal experience, I have been writing mostly on the original "Twisted Love" thread so if anyone wants to get more background they can look me (or anyone else) up there by using  "Search Boards" above (next to "Boards Archive" and "Profile", etc.) and type in any of our user names in the "blank box".  This will bring up everything we have posted and the responses we have given to each other's posts.

 

Peace and Love All-Ways,

 

Turtle Love (user name "trtlelove")




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March 8, 2006, 8:48 am PST

An Open Consideration of Reality and Religious Beliefs

I was considering why I don't feel the need to tell other people how to live their lives in accordance with the bible. I see that others see this as their duty.  I don't just feel it isn't my duty, I actually feel a prohibition stopping me from doing so. 

  

This may sound a bit nuts but I do feel guidance from God when I pray.  I believe what comes to me in those quiet questioning moments is the will of God. I have not always obeyed Him and my biggest stumbling block to obedience is my pride.  God has taken the trouble to humble me more than once ~grin~ and I admit I needed it.   

  

I think that because I have that prideful failing, I am hesitant to ever preach to another.  It might be lawful or even what God demands for someone else to preach to others if they don't have my failings, but I definately feel that it is off limits for me. 

  

 

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March 8, 2006, 11:52 am PST

An Open Consideration of Reality and Religious Beliefs

Quote From: judyblue22

I was considering why I don't feel the need to tell other people how to live their lives in accordance with the bible. I see that others see this as their duty.  I don't just feel it isn't my duty, I actually feel a prohibition stopping me from doing so. 

  

This may sound a bit nuts but I do feel guidance from God when I pray.  I believe what comes to me in those quiet questioning moments is the will of God. I have not always obeyed Him and my biggest stumbling block to obedience is my pride.  God has taken the trouble to humble me more than once grin and I admit I needed it.   

  

I think that because I have that prideful failing, I am hesitant to ever preach to another.  It might be lawful or even what God demands for someone else to preach to others if they don't have my failings, but I definately feel that it is off limits for me. 

  

Judy here is something for you to reflect upon.  I have personally attained delightful knowledge from reading your posts.  Perhaps God is using you as a 'tool' without your even being aware.  I agree that some people feel a calling to teach and share their wisdom about God, others like you do not feel it is their place to do so.   

  

I believe that we all learn from each other according to where our ears are.......if we have an open mind and heart we will inherently receive anothers message.  I have to the best of my ability received / heard lovely pieces of wisdom from this forum.  Most of which were recognized in me without the author even attempting to preach. 

  

God works in mysterious ways.  I am ever grateful that He does! 

  

Peace, 

  

Fredi 

 
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March 8, 2006, 12:11 pm PST

Re: Signs of Positive Change

Quote From: fredastare

Oh Turtle Love I must say that although it may take me more than one reading to gather my understanding of your messages, it's worth the effort!  Your illumination about the human condition is beyond brilliant.   

  

I think that I've said that my personal view of the path to Righteousness is a culmination of Loving Jesus,  and in Loving All things Universal.  I whole heartedly agree that the ulimate battle must be won inside.  My intellect nudges me toward some sort of deep knowing that The Revelations of John are an omnipresent message, that is perhaps only a peek into just what our existance ultimately is.  Much the same I feel that time and space are an enigma that we haven't yet discerned. ( That I'll save for another post ; )) 

  

 I very much agree with what you say,  you become what you meditate on.   

  

I believe that through prayer and meditation ( which to me are one and the same), we are better able to harness our strength and become what we think upon.  The act of prayer and meditation is not always a conscious act,  as it can be simply the 'tapes' that run through ones mind consistantly.  Is it not our inevitable and pre-scripted duty to God and to All that we will make a significant effort in programming our 'tapes' to play positive and Godly music in our minds ears?  Thereby taking a stand against war and all things that are hateful.  Things that have been accepted without much collective indifferance will become intolerable to the masses.  Our conditioning should then effectively change on both an individual and collective scale, correct? 

  

Do you feel there are signs and indications that this is happening now?  

  

Peace 

  

Fredi    

  

  

Dear Fredi, 

  

You know, it comes up in odd places . . . . like this message board for instance.  And, every once in a while, there will be a particularly clear message even via media like TV. 

  

For instance, one show I saw maybe a year ago was called, The Journey of Man (it was on PBS).  In it, this genetic anthropologist tracked genetic markers all the way back to our really original ancestors, who turned out to still be living as a tribe of Tsong bushmen in Africa.  Through his research, he was able to plot every step of the migration of human beings from that group (of course starting many thousands of years ago) to the present populations all over the world and including every "race".   

  

What was maybe the most amazing were the photographs: You can clearly see the Tsong bushmen and all of the essential elements there in their faces; i.e. their skin is medium brown, therefore having the potential to evolve into being darker or lighter.  You see the various shapes of eyes and noses, etc. that later became "European", "Asian", "Native American", "East Indian", etc, etc.  You know, the story was so compelling, that just thinking about it now is bringing tears to my eyes. 

  

At the end, you see this young anthropologist who happens to be tall, very fair skinned, blue eyed and strawberry blonde haired, smiling with an array of other "racially representative people" affirming that we really have all descended from the same genetic lines, that we really are all part of "one family", in spite of all of the perceivable "differences" that have evolved over time. 

  

I just watched Wayne Dyer this weekend (PBS was doing their regular fund raising drive) and he had a woman on there from Rawanda.  She spent 90 days along with seven other women hiding in a bathroom that was three feet by four feet wide.  Every day she was threatened with the machete's of people who used to be her friends and neighbors and if they had found her and the other women, they would have killed them.  And yet, some how, in the midst of that horror, she Realized God, she Realized what was the absolute truth of her nature and it was ultimately loving and compassionate even towards those who would have killed her and did kill everyone else in her family.  She wrote her story later and Wayne Dyer helped to get it published.  I just checked and here's the info from Amazon.com:  Left To Tell : Discovering God Amidst the Rwandan Holocaust by Immaculee Ilibagiza  

Even when she was speaking on stage and afterwards, you could just see how truly "radiant" she was. 

  

And of course, Wayne Dyer has been talking to thousands and thousands of people for years now on how we are all intimately involved in what is manifesting here and that we need to be taking that role much more seriously and being "mindful" of our thoughts and how they "expand" into the Universe. 

  

You know,  in quantum physics it takes a considerable amount of energy to shift an "electron" from one "level" of energy to another within the structure of an atom.  It's often referred to as a "quantum leap".  It doesn't happen gradually, instead it's a real "jump" from one level to another. 

  

I truly believe that there is energy building in this system of the world and in Consciousness as we know it to make a "leap".  I think such "leaps in awareness" will still happen first on the individual level, but the cumulative effect will be significant shifts in culture and society.  I have a feeling, possibly within our lifetimes, many of us are going to see and maybe even be a direct part of some major changes, and not long after that, we will be wondering how we could go on as long as we did without realizing and understanding what was always right there in front of us. 

  

Right now, we are still dealing with "inertia", the fundamental "resistance to change" (and, by the way, from an electronics point of view, such resistance is present even in the simplest wire conductor.  Again, it is just part of the system. : )).  So it really is about each and every person who is already aware, continuing to consciously manifest or "conduct" love "energy" in each and every moment of their lives and in whatever circumstance or relationship in which they find themselves. 

  

And, you know, even if it doesn't change the world (although I really do think it will in the long run), each person who chooses to do that, will simply be a happier person.  They will have the opportunity to experience more true joy in their lives, for whatever time they are here. 

  

From my point of view, that's a "Win/Win" situation . . . . : )) 

  

Sincerely Yours in Peace and Love, 

  

Turtle Love 

 

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March 8, 2006, 12:23 pm PST

An Open Consideration of Reality and Religious Beliefs

Quote From: judyblue22

I have enjoyed reading the apocrypha (books that were excluded from the official bible) and the gnostic texts but I didn't really find anything that changed my way of relating to God-they all tell the same basic story. The Gospel of Thomas is particularly interesting- it has a more intimate feel.

I agree that the Gnostic Gospels in over all content do not vary much from the New Testament.  The one particular that I found to be different in it's messages was the role of women in the context of God.  In the Gnostic texts their role appears to me much more defined and present, than what is written in the New Testament.  I know this role is not lost entirely in the NT, I simply feel it does not bear as much emphasis as what is found in the other texts.  

  

The Gospel of Thomas which is sometimes called the 'fifth' gospel, I agree again has a more intimate feel.  I think it more closely resembles the gospels in the NT and therefore gives the reader a familiar feel. 

  

Peace, 

  

Fredi 

 

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March 8, 2006, 1:24 pm PST

Quantum, quantum....quantum?

Quote From: trtlelove

Dear Fredi, 

  

You know, it comes up in odd places . . . . like this message board for instance.  And, every once in a while, there will be a particularly clear message even via media like TV. 

  

For instance, one show I saw maybe a year ago was called, The Journey of Man (it was on PBS).  In it, this genetic anthropologist tracked genetic markers all the way back to our really original ancestors, who turned out to still be living as a tribe of Tsong bushmen in Africa.  Through his research, he was able to plot every step of the migration of human beings from that group (of course starting many thousands of years ago) to the present populations all over the world and including every "race".   

  

What was maybe the most amazing were the photographs: You can clearly see the Tsong bushmen and all of the essential elements there in their faces; i.e. their skin is medium brown, therefore having the potential to evolve into being darker or lighter.  You see the various shapes of eyes and noses, etc. that later became "European", "Asian", "Native American", "East Indian", etc, etc.  You know, the story was so compelling, that just thinking about it now is bringing tears to my eyes. 

  

At the end, you see this young anthropologist who happens to be tall, very fair skinned, blue eyed and strawberry blonde haired, smiling with an array of other "racially representative people" affirming that we really have all descended from the same genetic lines, that we really are all part of "one family", in spite of all of the perceivable "differences" that have evolved over time. 

  

I just watched Wayne Dyer this weekend (PBS was doing their regular fund raising drive) and he had a woman on there from Rawanda.  She spent 90 days along with seven other women hiding in a bathroom that was three feet by four feet wide.  Every day she was threatened with the machete's of people who used to be her friends and neighbors and if they had found her and the other women, they would have killed them.  And yet, some how, in the midst of that horror, she Realized God, she Realized what was the absolute truth of her nature and it was ultimately loving and compassionate even towards those who would have killed her and did kill everyone else in her family.  She wrote her story later and Wayne Dyer helped to get it published.  I just checked and here's the info from Amazon.com:  Left To Tell : Discovering God Amidst the Rwandan Holocaust by Immaculee Ilibagiza  

Even when she was speaking on stage and afterwards, you could just see how truly "radiant" she was. 

  

And of course, Wayne Dyer has been talking to thousands and thousands of people for years now on how we are all intimately involved in what is manifesting here and that we need to be taking that role much more seriously and being "mindful" of our thoughts and how they "expand" into the Universe. 

  

You know,  in quantum physics it takes a considerable amount of energy to shift an "electron" from one "level" of energy to another within the structure of an atom.  It's often referred to as a "quantum leap".  It doesn't happen gradually, instead it's a real "jump" from one level to another. 

  

I truly believe that there is energy building in this system of the world and in Consciousness as we know it to make a "leap".  I think such "leaps in awareness" will still happen first on the individual level, but the cumulative effect will be significant shifts in culture and society.  I have a feeling, possibly within our lifetimes, many of us are going to see and maybe even be a direct part of some major changes, and not long after that, we will be wondering how we could go on as long as we did without realizing and understanding what was always right there in front of us. 

  

Right now, we are still dealing with "inertia", the fundamental "resistance to change" (and, by the way, from an electronics point of view, such resistance is present even in the simplest wire conductor.  Again, it is just part of the system. : )).  So it really is about each and every person who is already aware, continuing to consciously manifest or "conduct" love "energy" in each and every moment of their lives and in whatever circumstance or relationship in which they find themselves. 

  

And, you know, even if it doesn't change the world (although I really do think it will in the long run), each person who chooses to do that, will simply be a happier person.  They will have the opportunity to experience more true joy in their lives, for whatever time they are here. 

  

From my point of view, that's a "Win/Win" situation . . . . : )) 

  

Sincerely Yours in Peace and Love, 

  

Turtle Love 

Dear Turtle Love, 

This post may seem pretty 'random' but my heart is telling me to share.  When you mentioned quantum physics, I got 'happy' chills up my spine.  Why?  Because when I was trying to find the right words in my previous post to you, the word quantum kept popping into my mind.  Over and over again, it presented itself in my minds eye.  After looking it up in my thesaurus ( in trying to find some excuse to use this word that was dancing in my head), I gave up the notion.   

The little 'bugger' : ) stayed with me for a good deal of the afternoon.  Now I appreciate why. 

  

In your post you referred to the television documentary about the Tsong bushmen.  I find that fascinating, as I had recently seen a genetic make over computer program that Oprah was showing during a segment of her show.  The software designer stated that regardless of race we human beings are all 99.9% alike.  The segment went on to display photo's of Oprah as caucasian, hispanic, asian etc.   

  

Granted the segment was probably more to do with the technology, Oprah marvelled at how truly much we are all alike.  I am eager to locate the documentary that you mentioned, that sort of media I can't get enough of. 

  

Finally, I felt all warm and fuzzy after reading the first line of your response.  This forum is a place of Peace and Love. 

  

Peace, 

  

Fredi  

  

  

 
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March 8, 2006, 5:42 pm PST

An Open Consideration of Reality and Religious Beliefs

Quote From: judyblue22

Smile-s'ok, you didn't offend me.  I just find sarcasm and ridicule shut down discussions.

Okay. Let me try to explain where the sarcasm came from. My original question to you came out of shock.  From what I have read in your posts, you seem to be very knowledgable about the Bible.  It just hit me weird that you said you didn't know what Jesus condoned or didn't condone.  After reading your recent post about why you don't feel you can tell others how to live according to the Bible, it gave me some insight as to where you are coming from. Thanks for sharing that.  

 
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March 8, 2006, 5:51 pm PST

An Open Consideration of Reality and Religious Beliefs

Quote From: judyblue22

I just really can't believe those types of stories.  They just smack of santa and the easter bunny to me.  I don't think it matters in the grand scheme of things. LOL

I believe that the stories of Noah's Ark and the Garden of Eden are in the Bible for some reason - whether they are real stories or allogories (sp.) or whether we understand them or not - in my mind, there must have been some reason.  

  

Have you all heard that they are thinking that Noah's Ark remnants may be in Iran? (I think that's the country)   

 

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March 8, 2006, 6:12 pm PST

An Open Consideration of Reality and Religious Beliefs

Quote From: cheryl_56

Okay. Let me try to explain where the sarcasm came from. My original question to you came out of shock.  From what I have read in your posts, you seem to be very knowledgable about the Bible.  It just hit me weird that you said you didn't know what Jesus condoned or didn't condone.  After reading your recent post about why you don't feel you can tell others how to live according to the Bible, it gave me some insight as to where you are coming from. Thanks for sharing that.  

I've been a lawyer for over 20 years and I have found that the people who are most knowlegable about the law are usually the ones skating close to the edges :) That would be me.  When I was young and deciding how to live my life, the best answer we could come up with to meet all of the competing needs at the time was for my husband and I to marry and for us each to have another partner that met other needs.   

  

I spent a lot of time praying on that choice and reading the bible and talking to my priest before we made that choice.  Given that background you can probably see why I wouldn't be one to tell anyone their damned :) because you KNOW no catholic priest ever gave my lifestyle the green light. 

  

Now,  22+ years later, I can say that our lives have truly been blessed in so many ways and I am proud of the amount of good we do, by the love in our home and by the fact that our choices have harmed no one. When I pray, I feel loved and accepted by God and that comforts me. 

 
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March 8, 2006, 6:24 pm PST

Noah's Ark

Quote From: cheryl_56

I believe that the stories of Noah's Ark and the Garden of Eden are in the Bible for some reason - whether they are real stories or allogories (sp.) or whether we understand them or not - in my mind, there must have been some reason.  

  

Have you all heard that they are thinking that Noah's Ark remnants may be in Iran? (I think that's the country)   

I think it's Turkey, and they saw what could be the remains of the Ark on satellite pics.  
 
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March 8, 2006, 6:29 pm PST

Please clarify

I am confused.  On the old thread I was asking questions and understood that to get to heaven  asking for fogiveness and "accepting Jesus as Savior" was the answer.    The poster Sheltie explained that all to me, and answered all my questions.   I thought I had it straight,  but on  this thread there are other ideas like "Jesus and living like Jesus" and "Jesus and love".    What is the answer?   I really need to understand this. 

  

What does the bible say?   That's what I am going to go by. 

 

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