Topic : An Open Consideration of Reality and Religious Beliefs

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Created on : Friday, March 03, 2006, 09:33:47 am
Author : trtlelove

For the record, this topic has been posted to accomodate many threads that tend to end up discussing religion and our beliefs about God, etc.   We would like to maintain an open and peaceful tone for all to participate and simply share their points of view and experience, exchanging ideas, asking and answering each other's questions, etc.

 

From my own personal experience, I have been writing mostly on the original "Twisted Love" thread so if anyone wants to get more background they can look me (or anyone else) up there by using  "Search Boards" above (next to "Boards Archive" and "Profile", etc.) and type in any of our user names in the "blank box".  This will bring up everything we have posted and the responses we have given to each other's posts.

 

Peace and Love All-Ways,

 

Turtle Love (user name "trtlelove")



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March 9, 2006, 11:40 am PST

Thank you for answering.

Quote From: judyblue22

Smile-someone on the twisted love board already asked that, and it is presonal but I can tell you.  We are both deeply submissive sexually.  We were together for 6 years before we married and tried to work out how best to be.  We tried  finding someone that we matched sexually but we love each other and we always needed to be together.  Neither one of us could completely give anyone else that part of our souls. We wanted to be together for life.  We wanted to be parents together. So we decided to marry.  I really have no doubts that we will be married for life. 

  

When we had our children, we just needed all of our free time for parenting so we decided to be exclusive.  Our other partners are still part of our lives but in a different, less private way. And, the nice thing is that now that we are exclusive, we have learned to be everything to each other.  It is a wonderful relationship but I believe we could only get where we are because we understood our own sexuality by exploring it with others. 

Thank you for this information.    Your lifestyle sure is different I must say.   I'm glad it worked out.    

  

You said you are a catholic?   What does your priest say about all this?   You explained the priest had supernatural powers to change the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus, (transsubutation?) so he must have supernatural knowledge from god too?   It's their job guide their people isn't it?   They are the authority figures in that church? 

  

  

  

This is a question for everyone who has been helpful to me in the past.    You have told me we are forgiven all our sins.    This is a great relief to me personally.    If we repent we are forgiven, but we have to be sorry.   If this lifestyle of Judyblue22's  is a sin (and I don't know if it is) and Judyblue has not repented is she still forgiven?   What if it's a sin and she does not feel sorry, which seems to be the case?    I know I will never stop sinning so I am hoping that accepting Jesus as Saviour is a blanket forgiveness kind of deal, to be honest. 

 
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March 9, 2006, 11:48 am PST

website

Quote From: trtlelove

Officially, I'm a "Free Daist" following the Wisdom-Teaching of Avatar Adi Da Samraj.  I became a formal "devotee" almost nine years ago. 

  

If you want to know more about Avatar Adi Da, you can go to www.adidam.org. 

  

Maybe even more relevant to some of my recent posts, go to:  

  

http://www.adidam.org/society/peace/dhome.htm where Adi Da's "Peace Law - Cooperation + Tolerance = Peace" is more thoroughly explained in an "open letter" to all of human kind. 

  

If you want to know more about how I became associated with Him as a devotee, and what my experiences have been over the last nine years, I will be glad to answer any questions you may have. 

  

Peace and Love All-Ways, 

  

Turtle Love 

  

  

I had a look at the website you mentioned.    Do you believe that man is a god?
 

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March 9, 2006, 12:14 pm PST

An Open Consideration of Reality and Religious Beliefs

Quote From: blcksheepy

Thank you for this information.    Your lifestyle sure is different I must say.   I'm glad it worked out.    

  

You said you are a catholic?   What does your priest say about all this?   You explained the priest had supernatural powers to change the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus, (transsubutation?) so he must have supernatural knowledge from god too?   It's their job guide their people isn't it?   They are the authority figures in that church? 

  

  

  

This is a question for everyone who has been helpful to me in the past.    You have told me we are forgiven all our sins.    This is a great relief to me personally.    If we repent we are forgiven, but we have to be sorry.   If this lifestyle of Judyblue22's  is a sin (and I don't know if it is) and Judyblue has not repented is she still forgiven?   What if it's a sin and she does not feel sorry, which seems to be the case?    I know I will never stop sinning so I am hoping that accepting Jesus as Saviour is a blanket forgiveness kind of deal, to be honest. 

I have wondered the very same thing about sin.  Just to make this impersonal, imagine that going to a restaurant on a Sunday is a definate sin that hurts God (it is a clear breach of a commandment).  But your extended family has a tradition of meeting for Sunday brunch every week. They won't switch it to Saturday even though you asked because some work on that day. 

  

You KNOW it is a sin but you also know that it is important to family cohesiveness for everyone to go and you enjoy meeting with everyone and staying in touch so you go and you don't feel sorry or regret it.  Can you be forgiven without true repentance and if not, what then?  

 

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March 9, 2006, 12:19 pm PST

An Open Consideration of Reality and Religious Beliefs

Quote From: blcksheepy

Thank you for this information.    Your lifestyle sure is different I must say.   I'm glad it worked out.    

  

You said you are a catholic?   What does your priest say about all this?   You explained the priest had supernatural powers to change the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus, (transsubutation?) so he must have supernatural knowledge from god too?   It's their job guide their people isn't it?   They are the authority figures in that church? 

  

  

  

This is a question for everyone who has been helpful to me in the past.    You have told me we are forgiven all our sins.    This is a great relief to me personally.    If we repent we are forgiven, but we have to be sorry.   If this lifestyle of Judyblue22's  is a sin (and I don't know if it is) and Judyblue has not repented is she still forgiven?   What if it's a sin and she does not feel sorry, which seems to be the case?    I know I will never stop sinning so I am hoping that accepting Jesus as Saviour is a blanket forgiveness kind of deal, to be honest. 

I have had that conversation with several priests over the years and I have to say, they are much less judgmental than the ordinary man on the street.  One priest told me that it was because they make of vow of celibacy and have all had their own struggles with sin. He said it helped them keep an open mind :) 

  

Church doctrine is clear that polyamorous relationships were sinful but my current priest agrees that the biblical authority is contrary to that doctrine. He was the one who reviewed all of the polygamous patriarchs with me. 

 
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March 9, 2006, 4:57 pm PST

An Open Consideration of Reality and Religious Beliefs

Quote From: blcksheepy

I am sorry Fredi, keep praying but if you knew the people I know you would not have so much hope for the human race.

It appears that most everyone feels that I am feeling too hopeful that the day may come that we will all truly live in Peace, Love and harmony.  You won't see this coming from me often....I really hope that I'm right! <smiles> 

  

I suppose I should explain that in my posts I do try to capitalize words that I feel are directly connected to God and to His Love.  So JoeyJohn when you mentioned the Holy Spirit must be with us for this to happen, I agree.  Thus the reason that I capitalized specific words.  Sometimes during a forum as this I have a difficult time in conveying my ideas.  Please bear with me. 

  

I believe Cheryl mentioned that in scripture it mentions that we are all wicked.  Yes it does Cheryl.  It also refers to God 'hating' and to so so many other things that must be deciphered through deep consideration of one's own Soul.  Scripture also speaks of Jesus as the Son of Man on a great many occasions.  This reference is where I draw my strength of faith that we have it in us to behave as God would.  Do I feel that we are close to this magnificent happening?  No sadly I do not.   

  

I believe I said that I cannot fathom loving someone who has purposely commited an abomanable act, particularly against one held dear to my Heart.  I'm light years away from it.........yet maybe just maybe with baby steps and Hope in our Hearts, we can set in motion the Love that will emcompass our children and our childrens children 

  

You may find this interesting, today while at work I was reflecting on my own post regarding this thing of Loving all human beings.  I wondered why I felt so hopeful that we may one day accomplish this feat.  As we aren't God and therefore we are flawed.  So in essence I was questioning my own faith.  I began to think of my daughter, then my mom and dad, special aunts, uncles, cousins, friends etc.  I recalled how much I loved them, how dear they are to me.  Specific moments of interacting, joyous times, difficult times, heart wrenching times and so on. 

  

It occured to me that each and every individual that I encounter is indeed another human beings beloved.  Regardless of their actions and regardless of their treatment toward me or others, each of them had a special bond of deep affection with at the very least one other person, if not many. 

  

I realized that if I were to look inside of them, and incorporate the familial love that I feel for my 'own' and extend that love as best as I can, perhaps that is ( at least for me ) the beginning of how simple it should be to Love even a stranger.  I'm sure that many good people have been living by this act of consideration toward others for years.  I thought that I had been doing so.  Yet it wasn't until today that I made a heartfelt effort to 'categorize' these people.  The driver that honked and sneered while giving me the finger - suddenly became my uncle John.  A loving and affectionate man that is always 'king of the road'.  My co-worker that is almost always negative and condescending towards others...........my cousin Karri who is rude and mean but she's family and we understand her facade and pain.  It may not always be as simple as that, but for me at least it's a start!  

  

Blck Sheepy, I may not know the people you know, but I do no this...........even He Loves those people.  Isn't that just the most phenomenal thing, and depending on these characters almost surreal?  None the less, it's the Truth. :) 

  

Peace, 

  

Fredi  

 
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March 9, 2006, 5:16 pm PST

An Open Consideration of Reality and Religious Beliefs

Quote From: blcksheepy

Thank you for this.    I feel a bit clueless, but better all the same.

Dear Blck Sheepy, 

  

Sooo happy for you! 

  

Don't fret the cluelessness, I think I have more than Alicia Silverstone. - smirk ; )> 

  

Peace,  

  

Fredi 

 
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March 9, 2006, 5:39 pm PST

An Open Consideration of Reality and Religious Beliefs

Quote From: judyblue22

But I don't think that I did anything wrong.  I know that many, many people think I have but I don't and I have prayed a LOT about it.  So then, if I think God allowed me to commit myself to two men, how in the world can I think that I know what is right for others? I guess it is easy if they are causing pain or hurting someone, but otherwise, do I know what is or is not ok for someone else?  For example, is it ok to be gay?  Should we quote Romans to them and legislate them to stop?  Those questions are too big for me - that just isn't my role in life. I am much more confident in telling them to pray for their own answer. 

  

I also think that humans are essentially good-not wicked.  If we are intact and brought up in a healthy fashion we will naturally choose things that are right and good for us. 

Hi Judy Blue, 

  

Our decisions ( especially the questionable or outside of the box ones ) are between us and those they bring pain.  If no one carries any injury then it is simply between us and Him. 

  

I feel that if you know and understand His word, you are His chosen child who is redeemed in His eyes.  For it is in the understanding that fills one with wisdom.  Judy I believe you have that wisdom. 

  

I admire that about you. 

  

Peace,  

  

Fredi 

 

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March 9, 2006, 6:05 pm PST

An Open Consideration of Reality and Religious Beliefs

Quote From: fredastare

It appears that most everyone feels that I am feeling too hopeful that the day may come that we will all truly live in Peace, Love and harmony.  You won't see this coming from me often....I really hope that I'm right! <smiles> 

  

I suppose I should explain that in my posts I do try to capitalize words that I feel are directly connected to God and to His Love.  So JoeyJohn when you mentioned the Holy Spirit must be with us for this to happen, I agree.  Thus the reason that I capitalized specific words.  Sometimes during a forum as this I have a difficult time in conveying my ideas.  Please bear with me. 

  

I believe Cheryl mentioned that in scripture it mentions that we are all wicked.  Yes it does Cheryl.  It also refers to God 'hating' and to so so many other things that must be deciphered through deep consideration of one's own Soul.  Scripture also speaks of Jesus as the Son of Man on a great many occasions.  This reference is where I draw my strength of faith that we have it in us to behave as God would.  Do I feel that we are close to this magnificent happening?  No sadly I do not.   

  

I believe I said that I cannot fathom loving someone who has purposely commited an abomanable act, particularly against one held dear to my Heart.  I'm light years away from it.........yet maybe just maybe with baby steps and Hope in our Hearts, we can set in motion the Love that will emcompass our children and our childrens children 

  

You may find this interesting, today while at work I was reflecting on my own post regarding this thing of Loving all human beings.  I wondered why I felt so hopeful that we may one day accomplish this feat.  As we aren't God and therefore we are flawed.  So in essence I was questioning my own faith.  I began to think of my daughter, then my mom and dad, special aunts, uncles, cousins, friends etc.  I recalled how much I loved them, how dear they are to me.  Specific moments of interacting, joyous times, difficult times, heart wrenching times and so on. 

  

It occured to me that each and every individual that I encounter is indeed another human beings beloved.  Regardless of their actions and regardless of their treatment toward me or others, each of them had a special bond of deep affection with at the very least one other person, if not many. 

  

I realized that if I were to look inside of them, and incorporate the familial love that I feel for my 'own' and extend that love as best as I can, perhaps that is ( at least for me ) the beginning of how simple it should be to Love even a stranger.  I'm sure that many good people have been living by this act of consideration toward others for years.  I thought that I had been doing so.  Yet it wasn't until today that I made a heartfelt effort to 'categorize' these people.  The driver that honked and sneered while giving me the finger - suddenly became my uncle John.  A loving and affectionate man that is always 'king of the road'.  My co-worker that is almost always negative and condescending towards others...........my cousin Karri who is rude and mean but she's family and we understand her facade and pain.  It may not always be as simple as that, but for me at least it's a start!  

  

Blck Sheepy, I may not know the people you know, but I do no this...........even He Loves those people.  Isn't that just the most phenomenal thing, and depending on these characters almost surreal?  None the less, it's the Truth. :) 

  

Peace, 

  

Fredi  

That is an interesting post.  It reminds me of a what a friend of mine said.  He is the local judge in the criminal courts here and I was asking how he could stand it (he used to be in private practice with me so I know how he thinks).  He said that he tries to imagine that the accused person is a family member-a brother or cousin.  That "act of consideration" as you put it,  helps him be objective and give the accused person the proper benefit of the doubt. 

  

I think I will try that, the next time someone seems difficult or annoying :) 

 
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March 10, 2006, 4:48 am PST

An Open Consideration of Reality and Religious Beliefs

Quote From: elffie

Thank you for not jumping to the wrong conclusion about me.  I have been accused of being a devil worshipper, which is funny because he is not even a part of my religion.  That accusation may have derived from the Horned God.  He is the watcher of the forrest, he protects it, he does not do any harm.  The representation of the horns were from such animals such as The Stag.  It is part of putting our worship of animals into play.  We do not sacrifice animals, again, we only worship them and beleive their lives are just as important as ours.  Just wanted to clear that up. 

We worship (when  I say "we" I mean myself, my husband, and our two children, even though lots of Pagans do this also) the sun on Sabbats.  These are the celebrations of the suns.  We worship the Moon on the Esbats.  Some of the Sabbats include Yule, the Winter Soltice, Ostara, the Spring Equinox.  For Yule, we bring a tree into our home as a way of bringing nature into our home.  How much more natural can you get than a tree?   This takes place in December.  Maybe I should start with explaining Samhain, or as you may call it Halloween.  This is a last Harvest festival.  This is also the time when the Sun is out for only a little time during the day.  This is the time when we honor those who have past and we do that by remembering them by candelight.  I could go more into this, but it would take a very long time. LOL  My point is, Samhain is not how others would like to think it is.  It is not evil.   

Ostara, which is on the 20th of this month is the Spring Equinox, the first day of Spring.  We wake up before sunrise to welcome Him back.  His light and warmth will soon make way for the growth of the plants surrounding us.  We decorate eggs as gifts to the Goddess.  The egg is an ancient Pagan symbol of fertility.  We decorate them to make them the colors of Spring.  It makes sense that we do this with the eggs because this is the time of year in which things grow.  The hare is a symbol of rebirth, nature is coming back to life. 

We worship the Sun and the Moon by their beauty and their strength.  Some talk with them, I do this through meditation.  Let me mention that there are numerous Gods and Goddesses, I just feel that the Moon is the most symbolic.  It's female, it's round.  You may have to look more into this to fully understand what I am talking about. 

  When I was younger I knew there had to be something more to life, something that no one told me about.  I remember sitting outside and looking at the moon or feeling the sun on me and feeling totally complete, but I didn't know why.  I never knew Paganism was a religion until after I was married and when I found out I knew that it was for me.  This is how I felt my whole life.  And it has so much history.  This is a religion of equality, man and woman are equal and need each other to balance this Earth.  This is a religion that puts females in high regard, but does not lose touch with the masculinity of this Earth as well.  We beleive the Goddess is the giver of life, just like how women today are.  Ever seen a pregnant man?  Of course you do need him, but women are the carriers of life.   

Anyway, hope this helps and thanks for taking the time to talk with me.  Take care.  Blessed be. 

Welcome Effie! 

  

Your worship seems to bring you Peace and purpose, that is a good thing for anyone.  I love the equality of the sexes that the moon brings into your beliefs.  Many term Paganism and Universally enlightenment as "New Age" practises.  Yet I believe that much of the theory in esssence is actually age old and pre-dates many of the early conventional churches. 

  

In pouring through your posts what struck me was your mention of the inner sanctity that you receive during meditation.  You said that it is difficult to put into words, that is true for many.  I believe that as long as you are feeling in a state of perfect Love and harmony, the feeling that washes over one is beyond script. 

  

I gathered from your posts that the equality of the sexes is very significant for you.  Many of the other religions and churches are just now rethinking the role of women in their faith.  I find the worship of the Universe fascinating.  If you would be so kind I'd be appreciative of your input on a couple of questions.  Thank you. 

  

1. What is the recent history of your faith? 

2. What do you believe happens to you after death? 

3. Is there a "creed" that guides you in how to love other others? 

4. What is your faith's opinion of Muslims, Christians, Buddists, Jews and other more converntional  faiths? 

  

Peace, 

  

Fredi 

  

 
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March 10, 2006, 4:51 am PST

An Open Consideration of Reality and Religious Beliefs

Quote From: fredastare

Welcome Effie! 

  

Your worship seems to bring you Peace and purpose, that is a good thing for anyone.  I love the equality of the sexes that the moon brings into your beliefs.  Many term Paganism and Universally enlightenment as "New Age" practises.  Yet I believe that much of the theory in esssence is actually age old and pre-dates many of the early conventional churches. 

  

In pouring through your posts what struck me was your mention of the inner sanctity that you receive during meditation.  You said that it is difficult to put into words, that is true for many.  I believe that as long as you are feeling in a state of perfect Love and harmony, the feeling that washes over one is beyond script. 

  

I gathered from your posts that the equality of the sexes is very significant for you.  Many of the other religions and churches are just now rethinking the role of women in their faith.  I find the worship of the Universe fascinating.  If you would be so kind I'd be appreciative of your input on a couple of questions.  Thank you. 

  

1. What is the recent history of your faith? 

2. What do you believe happens to you after death? 

3. Is there a "creed" that guides you in how to love other others? 

4. What is your faith's opinion of Muslims, Christians, Buddists, Jews and other more converntional  faiths? 

  

Peace, 

  

Fredi 

  

Hello Elffie, 

A quick apology for mis-spelling your user name, my typing isn't what it used to be.  Other errors I worry not, but ones name I try to honor. 

  

Peace, 

  

Fredi 

 

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