Message Boards

Topic : 07/20 Love, Lies and the Law

Number of Replies: 907
New Messages This Week: 0
Last Reply On:
Created on : Friday, March 03, 2006, 12:40:45 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 03/06/06) You’ve heard it all before: “If I want it done right, I’ll have to do it myself.” Dr. Phil looks at control freaks, and how their behavior can destroy a marriage. Jim thinks his wife, Sinden, is the most controlling woman in America. They’ve recently separated because, he says, she picked out his clothes, told him what he could watch on TV and micromanaged his finances down to how much he could spend on a candy bar. But Sinden says there’s a darker side of Jim, a police officer of 20 years. She calls him a master manipulator who rules by intimidation. Find out why she says she fears for her life. Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.

More July 2006 Show Boards.

As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

User Mood
Worried

Message Emote
worried
March 6, 2006, 5:43 pm PST

Oh MY! Dr. Phil help Sinden

I am so worried for this mother that you had on the show today, Sinden.  Have you not heard of the Crystal Brame's tragedy in Tacoma Washington ?  It's like I was hearing what she went through prior to her husband, the police officer, who was jealous and obsessive of his ex-wife…then KILLED her!  He stalked her and manipulated her and had the police behind him....until....he shot her then shot himself.  Are you worried about the kids?   Crystal ’s kids have no parents thanks to that day.  Crystal was screaming for help (as you guest today is) and now you can read about what happened to her.   That's the tragedy and I would hate to hear or read about this family, like I can with the Brame’s.  A lot of Policeman’s ex-wives fear for their lives. They know the systems will fail by protecting the wrong person.  The person who carries a badge, the person that has the obsessions, that manipulates…that is abusive.   A change has to be made and the badge has to be taken away from Jim and from every other officer that has had complaints filed against them like this time and time again.  HELLO!!!….can anybody hear these screams!!!!  What does it take? 

 
User Mood
Stressed

Message Emote
blank
March 6, 2006, 5:43 pm PST

Cover thy tracks?

I think he wrote the initial letter to cover his tracks in case.  The guilty party always hollers first.  She called out for help to the police dept.  He called out to help from a talk show.  Hmmm. 
 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
March 6, 2006, 5:43 pm PST

03/06 Love, Lies and the Law

I watch the Dr. Phil show on a regular basis and have appreciated many of his insights.  However, today I was extremely disappointed in the "stand" that he took.  When Dr. Phil stated that the "lies and accusations come from both sides" it really disturbed me.  I could hardly believe his statement, "...there's your version, there's your version, and then there's the truth."     

  

Is it true that neither one was telling the truth?  Does abuse, by it's very nature, make it impossible for the victim to tell the events as they really were?  If so, how does one believe the victim of sexual abuse?  A child who was molested?  Are they also incapable of telling the truth?  If not, where does one draw the line?  

  

I felt that Sinden was very believable.  Abusers often play the victim, as I believe Jim has in this situation.  Sinden stated that they have been through counseling before, without success.  This is because abuse cannot be helped by couples counseling.  Abuse is the issue of the abuser, not of the victim.  The victim, in this case Sinden, cannot control what her husband does.  She cannot change him.  Often, as I believe the case was today, the counseling world will tell you there are two sides and both of you are in the wrong--at least to a certain point.  This gives the abuser all the excuses he needs, regardless of what else may be said.  An abuser will take what he can, twist what he wants, and disregard what he chooses.  Unless he takes full and complete responsiblity, Jim will not change.   

  

A good abusers program (not couples counseling) deals with the issues.  I believe this is the only hope for abusers.  However, this is first and foremost preceded by a true acknowledgment and honest confession by the abuser.  Today, when Jim was asked what changes he needed to make he totally side-stepped the issue.  He hasn't really acknowledged anything. 

 

 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
March 6, 2006, 5:44 pm PST

Equal

 All relationships need to be equal.  That way everyone is getting what they need.  However,  what your equal might be different than mine.  It has to be what you both agree upon.  What you can live with, I might not be able to and vis versa.  People who need total control are very unhappy inside and usually have some type of mental problems.
 
User Mood
Relaxed

Message Emote
blank
March 6, 2006, 5:48 pm PST

He's holding her kids hostage....

Quote From: pritytexan

I really hope that both of these people will get away from each other.  I  believe this situation is a ticking time bomb.  They are so mad at each other that they can't see straight.  And I don't believe for a second that he is not using law enforcement to further his cause.  Law enforcement protects their own.  And if they are living in a small town, it's even worse.  If at all possible I think that the children should be placed with a loving relative until these parents can get control of themselves and this situation.  And after that is under control, they should move to different states!
I think she wants to get away but he is holding her kids now......dangeling them like a carrot over her nose. 
 
User Mood
Mellow

Message Emote
blank
March 6, 2006, 5:53 pm PST

Simple

Quote From: popptart

You know im confused with this guy, I mean what would he write in for if he had all this stuff to hide?
If you've been imaging the ultimate way to make your wife look bad, what better way then on national tv.  He lied to her about how they ended up on the show in the first place....he'll lie about anything.  Folks please google Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).  This man was acting.
 
User Mood
Mellow

Message Emote
flirtatious
March 6, 2006, 5:55 pm PST

Seeing the Forest for the trees

 I saw the show today and it was nice to know that I am not the only one doing these stupid, stupid things.  I'm sure both Sinden and Jim are both individully nice people and probably very well adjusted on thier own. They just got themsleves into a situation which really brought out the worst in both of them. I understand that ( an your right Dr.Phil, it does people good to see themselves reflected on shows like yours) when you get to that point where you are so lost in the he-said-she-saids, it is hard to rememeber how to be normal and reasonable, and you can easily lose sight of what is really important, especially when you feel you are under attack.  Good advice Dr. Phil. Everyone needs a cooling off period  to get a little perspective on what they want to see happen, and focus on undoing some of the damage to the kids. Its so funny that when my 2 year old pitches a fit I time him out and back things down, but I never really thought of doing the same thing when things get stirred up betwen his Dad and I. I think I am going to try this splendid isolationism, it sounds like a solution to my problems, but his Dad will not like it. But I see that as long as we are actively engaged in open warfare, we are too busy taking shots to resolve anything productively. I wish this couple all the best in their attempts to co-exit and co-parent. I'm pretty sure they can find it within themelves to make it work for thier kids. Good luck guys, and know that you are not the only ones who have found themsleves in this postion, but you do need to back up, take a deep breath and try again.  

Oh and as far as spanking, I fuigure, I am bigger and stronger then my kid which is obvious, the only thing I got left to prove is that I am smarter. 

 
User Mood
Mellow

Message Emote
blank
March 6, 2006, 5:58 pm PST

Exactly.

Quote From: cowgyrl

I think he wrote the initial letter to cover his tracks in case.  The guilty party always hollers first.  She called out for help to the police dept.  He called out to help from a talk show.  Hmmm. 

When backed into a corner...create a diversion.  This guy knew he would be able to snow a national audience. 

  

  

Remember the very first video reel, Jim accusing Sinden of being controlling?  Dr. Phil asked her afterwords what she felt and she said it was all news to her?  I believe her.  Pathological, malignant narcissists will always accuse others of exactly what they are guilty of. 

 
User Mood
Mellow

Message Emote
blank
March 6, 2006, 6:02 pm PST

tezzie2720

Quote From: tezzie2720

Dear Dr. Phil, 

  

I am probably one of your biggest and most faithful fans.  I first followed you on Oprah and then on your own show.  I am an Educational Psychologist and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor who works with adolescents.  More importantly I was a victim of an abusive, controlling and manipulative man.  Despite all my years of education and training, I did not realize or recognize what was happening until much of the damage was done.  I only knew about physical abuse.  If a man were to put a hand on me, that's was so clear cut.  Nothing in my education, training or life experience prepared me for the type of manipulative I encountered in my home and in the counselor's office. 

  

I consider myself highly intelligent (graduated from 4 colleges with high honors, my advanced graduate degree with a 3.98 GPA).  Until I married this man I was always highly respected and admired in both my personal and professional life.  After marrying this man and being completely confused by his contradictory words and behaviors, his contradictory public versus private behaviors and finally being informed by the police that what he was doing was emotional and psychological abuse, he had already done significant damage to the marriage, to me and to my reputation.  This information was later backed up by the police who informed me he had a record and history of abuse as well as conversations with his children and ex-wife and court documents I obtained.   

  

You see he had also ruined his first wife's reputation and turned the tables on her.  I was told his first marriage ended because she had an affair.  She was made out to be the town slut by him and people believed him.  His own children told me of his abuse to them and what they witnessed him doing to their mother.  They had been intimadated by their father and warned not to share information with me.  Until me, he had never had anyone stand up to him.  Everyone was afraid of him and afraid to confront him.  His prior history of abuse was a well kept secret. 

  

In the past I have watched couples on your show where it appeared that abuse was going on and I have been frustrated that you appeared not to recognize it.  On another ocassion when the abuse was out in the open, I was frustrated with how you handled it.  During both these ocassions and today I kept shaking my head and saying to myself, "I love you Dr. Phil but you don't get it".  You are not alone.  Most counselors and therapists out there do not.  This is my case in point.  Even the most reputable counselors out there are furthering and revictimizing abuse victims because they don't get it either.  Some think if they take a workshop or a class (if there are any available) they understand emotional, psychological abuse.  Most are dead wrong.   

  

The first counselor we went to was one I had nothing but the highest regard for.  He knew me prior to this relationship and we had a mutual respect and admiration for each other.  After meeting my then husband, he was absolutely taken in by him.  At one point he asked me to leave counseling so he could work with this "sweet and dear man".  I was devastated.  Of course I had no idea what this "sweet, dear man" was saying to the counselor when I was not present, but I did know how much this "sweet, dear man" lied, distorted, rewrote and completely fabricated experiences while I was present.  It wasn't until later when I showed him the documentation that he apologized and wrote a letter in my behalf.  This sweet man used the counselors, he even alleged he had them document things against me.  The stories of manipulation would blow your mind.  For example, once when we were arguing he was playing with what looked like a tape recorder in his pocket (he had previously told me that he had tape recorded our conversations).  When I asked what it was, he hid it.  When I reached over to try to grab it, he jumped up from the couch and started walking around the room saying things, like "don't do that to me, "stop that", "stop", "don't come near me", "stop it, stop it stop it" "stop! on and on.  He completely staged a scene that if you didn't know that I was sitting on the couch the whole time you would be convinced I was beating him.  Who would they believe?  What evidence did I have that he staged it and I never touched him? 

  

We went to one counselor who refused to believe me and would not provide me with confidentiality to share the information with him.  I was separated from him but still in fear of what the retribution would be if he were to find out I had exposed him.   When the woman on your show said that she would pay for what she said on that show, let me assure you -- she will.  She won't have black and blues (that would blow their cover), he will however find more ways to manipulate the situation and set her up.  This counselor told me that until he met me, based on what he said he thought I was some kind of psychotic.  He also admitted that my credibility had never been an issue and he had a "tendency to distort things" but he still believed him not me.  He was in a position to help us but instead he furthered the abuse and I had to get out to save myself. 

  

Just as the couple today, it became a he said, she said.  I would sit there in complete frustration and say, "that's not true", "that didn't happen" and we both looked crazy.  I didn't want to be right, I just wanted to work with the truth.  I had no problem owning up to my faults.  His tactic was to turn the focus of me and they didn't know who to believe.  Though not a police officer, he worked with the police.  His former wife could tell you plenty of stories about how they protected him.  Fortunately for me we did not live in the same time that he worked and the police were the ones to tell me of his abusive history- they were the ones who convinced me he was abusive.   

  

An abusive man will do almost anything to cover his tracks and divert attention away from his abuse.  His main tactic is to turn the tables and accuse you of whatever you accuse him.  The manipulation is incredible, these are not stupid men (though you may initially think so).  The manipulation is unbelievable and space does not permit me to detail some of the unbelievable things that do to set you up so that you look like the crazy one.  End result, they come across as the consummate Mr. Nice Guy and you as the unstable one.  I know this first hand.  Frequently counselors without the sufficient training are taken in by them and even join in with him to further victimize the other. 

  

I can't say for sure if this is the case with this couple but listening to him gave me the chills.  I recognized the tactics of trying to make her seem unfit.  Now if she did cause bruising on her child than she was wrong and may need help for her anger.  Based on the fact that they agreed that hitting their children was acceptable and based on the fact that he turned her in -- it smells like manipulation to me.  When she said I just want him to stop that's how I felt.  Please stop the manipulation and the games. 

  

The problem is that if you talk to the children, they will be so afraid of their father they will likely they will not expose him.  Additionally, they are master manipulators who use many tactics to confuse others into doubting themselves.  Abusers are exceptionally good at lieing because they believe their own lies.

 

 

Thank you for your post.  Was your ex ever diagnosed as bi-polar or having NPD?
 

Message Emote
blank
March 6, 2006, 6:02 pm PST

Child Abuse

 This woman beat her child with a belt and left bruises so bad that child protective services took her child away!!!! I think it's weird that people are worried about whether her husband is controlling, when there is a much bigger issue. i've read comments about how her husband is holding the children over her head. If he was taken out of the home, I am confident that there is a good reason. Not that the husband is any better. He made a strap????!!! What century are they living in? Let's all hope that these children are taken out of their home and adopted by a loving family that  won't abuse them. Also did you hear her say that they made an educated decision to hit their children? Who was educating them? I have read many, many parenting books and I've never seen one that condones child abuse. Also I am very disappointed in Dr. Phil for saying that she was not a child abuser. Was he not listening? Please Dr. Phil please use your influence to tell people to stop hitting their kids.
 
First | Prev | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | Next | Last