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Topic : 08/01 Extreme Highs and Lows

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Created on : Friday, March 03, 2006, 12:43:32 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 03/07/06) Dr. Phil explores the ups and downs of bipolar disorder. This illness takes its victims on an emotional rollercoaster ride -- from elation to extreme irritability, intense rage, or devastating depression. First, Cathy was diagnosed with Bipolar II, 10 years ago and claims she goes from zero to psycho in 15 seconds. Dr. Phil takes a look at the toll her disorder takes on her two boys, and brings the family together for a dramatic moment of emotional healing. Then, during various manic episodes, Fred has stolen a taxi, crashed into a Starbucks, and climbed to the top of a church. He hears voices and believes that movie stars like Denzel Washington and Robert De Niro are talking to him through their movies. Still, Fred thinks he’s ready to move out of his parents’ house and live on his own for good … but should his family let him? Talk about the show here.

 

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March 7, 2006, 8:13 pm PST

03/07 Extreme Highs and Lows

Quote From: gethelp4bp

I'm sorry but I disagree with you.  If you will look at the diagnostics for borderline personality disorder you will find that they have (1) abandonment issues, very fearful of that (2) self-mutilation, or some call it cutters or cutting. 

  

I have the type Cathy has but have never, ever thought about cutting myself or self-mutilation.  I don't have any abandonment issues whatsoever.  My type is called dysphoric mania.  I have type 2 Bipolar with mild hypomania.  Cathy is unmedicated, but her mania of not sleeping for about 10 nights in a row is indicative of this disorder.  It is the manic stage.  I don't have a problem with not sleeping or didn't even when not medicated, however I had problems with racing thoughts and it took a long time to get to sleep.  I was easily distracted, easily irritated, agitated, and like the tazmanian devil...no joke.  It wasn't who I am in my core being as I am a person who loves and loves deeply.  It's like something sets the person off and they don't really know the impact of what they are saying at the time.  They become delusional and sometimes paranoid thinking things are going on behind their backs, when they aren't.  It's a very hard disorder to live with, and to manage.  But it is harder for the families. I've been stable for several years, but it took several different medicine combinations before I found the right one that worked.  My best wishes for Cathy to find some medical help and a med. combo. that works for her.   

Hey did I mess up and reply to "myself" ??  LOL, sorry.  I must be having a senior moment.  Still stable though it may not seem that way.   

  

(sigh)  

 
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March 7, 2006, 8:15 pm PST

would like to hear from you

Hi, 

I would like to hear from those who are either bi-polar, and/or manic/depressive.  I thought they were the same but not.  My son, who is 38, suffers from something similar.  He will not seek help and we so worry about him. He is either very high or very low.  He did alot of drugs when he was younger, tells us he doesn't sleep at night, can go from a very loving person to a combative person in no time.  As a child, he preferred to play alone, and could entertain himself for hours with trucks and cars. We now know he "bs'd" himself through his younger years.  His siblings have recently told us we are now seeing the real him, the one they grew up with.  He has apparently been able to  hide his "other"person for years.  If you met him, and he wanted to impress you, he would be able to convince you he is so responsible, caring, etc.  However, the same person can become crazed within minutes.  Any ideas for us as a family?  I would appreciate any and all input. Thanks to those who take the time to read this.  P.S. Maybe, there are some things I might be able to shed some light on for some of you as well/  Mom of 3, Grandmother of 5.  Take care. 

 
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March 7, 2006, 8:16 pm PST

i can relate

Quote From: coconino

My husband is bipolar.  His sister was also bipolar and ended up committing suicide.  I have a terrible fear my husband will do the same thing.  My heart aches for him as I know the turmoil he goes through.  It is like living with two people.  There are times when he is wonderful, loving and sensitive.  Then when he is having a manic episode he is very hurtful...not physically, but emotionally.  He says things he knows will hurt me.  He lives in a fantasy world most of the time.  He has left me twice, both times having an affair (we are currently separated), but even during the separation we are in contact and he is telling me how sorry he is and he knows we belong together.  Many tell me I should not take him back, but when you love someone as much as I love him and have been together for 25 years, you just don't throw it away.  He is on meds and faithful in taking them, but they only do so much.  He also suffers from post tramatic stress syndrome from a horrendous childhood.  I wish I could find better help for him.  I do  not want to lose him either through suicide or another relationship.  I sometimes wonder who an illness like this is harder on....the patient or the loved ones.  I pray for God's help!
I can totally relate and my relationship ended in divorce because he and his family are in denial and they won't force him to get help.....I am fearful for him and also for my children when they are with him during his parenting time......I am even in court to try to force him to take meds and get him on the road to better mental health.....Sorry for your pain......
 
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March 7, 2006, 8:23 pm PST

Support for the families, I say.

(Not aimed at today's show.) I get so tired of seeing people whinge on about how much support and help people with bipolar need. That's true, yes, but people so often forget the family that has to put up with them--and I do mean put up, suffer, trudge on like a dog. I was glad to see today's show display the truth of how it was affecting Cathy's children. And I, like her children, feel there's no hope for her. In all reality, we just don't scientifically understand the illness enough yet to cure or normalize the lives of those living with it (especially those with severe cases).

I've also seen the many posts on this board that are entirely sympathetic to people living with bipolar, which is fine, but also go so far as to imply that those of us who have lived around it don't have valid pains or reflexive hurts. To anyone with bipolar: you aren't the only victims, believe me. And plenty of people do actually understand the facts of bipolar; but book facts are so different from living around it, just as living with it. People who live with those with bipolar are in pain, too. My personal experience with my father has been that he's just so wrapped up in his own hurt and selfishness that he can't imagine anyone around him is getting caught in the fire.

He's has had various addictions that I've been caught in the middle of (as part of the bipolar perhaps? who knows.) and is mildly borderline. I'm nineteen now, looking at moving out of my home in a few months, and I couldn't be happier about that. The stress levels of even being on my own in a big world (overseas, at that) are so much nicer than those which exist in my house because of my father. He's stark raving mad.

A lot of what Cathy said on the show today is what I've heard my father say in the past--hell, last week even. And today. "I love you, I love you, I love." But the second he doesn't like something, or the second he decides to misinterpret and twist your words, his lips will purse, and "to ****ing hell with you." He's mostly this way with my mother, but being an only child, I've come between it throughout my entire life; I've had to take the role of peacemaker, believe it or not (as I know this post is pretty biting). I've also had to call the cops for my and my mother's safety once, and I've come close to it numerous other times. A man of my father's size can be frightening and intimidating, when he weighs 300 pounds more than you do and is a foot taller. It's pure hell to live in.

In the end of course, he's so, so very sorry. And he wants to repent. He hopes he can change. Like Cathy, he's got lots of hope, and, oh, he's willing to do anything! He just doesn't want us to leave. And so on and so forth. And it lasts for maybe a few days or, if we're lucky, months. The problem with this is that he's never really sorry for the actions or decisions he's made; he's just sorry about the consequences which usually hurt him too. My father has backed my mother into corners, and yet he argues with us on what is and isn't abuse, saying that he's "never physically harmed either of us." I'll let anyone reading this take that as they will.

Of course, when he's ready to be a five-year-old in a 400-pound, 6'2 body again, he'll "transform." Those apologies disappear so quickly! It's not an unconscious decision, or at least I don't feel it is with my father. It's rather convenient how he only acts this way when he doesn't absolutely, 100% get his way in life. (e.g. Today, he thought his fries at a fast food restaurant were undercooked, so he called the company's 800-number to verbally lay into some poor, uninformed soul on the other end. or Takes statements out of context so he can be a victim.)

These are the sorts of things I hope people who don't know anything about bipolar will be aware of, for when they do come in contact with it; frankly, I don't care if people with the disease disagree with me. People living with bipolar are genuinely remorseful, but they can be genuinely hateful, vindictive, cruel and manipulative too. No studies or findings on low amounts of serotonin or chemical imbalances will ever make me believe that a human being can mentally, emotionally, and physically harm their spouses and children for no reason and be in such a "white rage" that they don't know it.

What if we gave cold-blooded murderers the same slide? (Not that we don't, to an extent, what with the "insanity" plea that is [sometimes] abused.) What if we said, "Oops, you killed someone! That must be because you couldn't help yourself." If only we all had such wonderful pardons. And second chances, third chances, and on.

I can't say this is the case for all bipolar people, but I think in the case of some (many?), and in the case of my father, they don't want to be cured or truly get better. My father loves the highs and lows, and it's obvious. He loves to get something started. From the second he wakes up in the morning (or at 6pm, if that's what he's feeling like that day), you can tell whether he'll be starting something or not. He'll be snappy; he'll twist your words; he'll do anything to start a fight or to hurt you. And it's about finding what works now. He used to "threaten" suicide, until he found we didn't believe him (he loves himself far too much, honestly), so now it's all about how much we're hurting him, and how he'll leave my mother and screw her over financially. (Real nice to say to your wife of 21 years.)

My father's been to many good, professional psychiatrists in multiple states and taken a plethora of pills, but pills really can't make a person want to change, and that's where the difference among some bipolar people is, I think. Some truly want to change, and others are perfectly happy being the center of attention and energy all the time, no matter how negative it is.

I can't say I have much sympathy anymore, as I've run out of it. I'm nice to him, as a child should be to her parents, but I shall be glad to wave goodbye. :)
 
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March 7, 2006, 8:24 pm PST

Bipolar Mom...just a handicap

My doctor says, "Bipolar is a biological illness with psychological symptoms."   I have a handicap or an impairment. It is severe at times and almost non-existant at times. I can not be  or do anything I want to. I am limited. I have led the battle towards wellness all my life. I have never given up, even when many doctors did. I always took my meds. I have always gone to my appointments and done my therapy. I've done everything in my power to get better. However, my illness has slowly gotten worse, but that's okay. I can't control my illness I can only manage it. I found all the "rah rah" talk only put pressure on me to push myself beyond what I could do. It's like telling a cancer patient if they just put their mind to it they can beat the cancer. It almost makes it sound like it is their fault. That made me worse. By accepting and learning to manage my illness and it's limitations, I have a better life. There is no cure yet and the meds though absolutely critical, only help so much. I live with comorbid illnesses and the plethera of side effects from all the meds I must take to stay alive. The pushing and fighting against my illness just made me worse. That is energy I need to raise my children and be good to my husband. I have surrendered to my illness but I have not surrendered my life. I limit the number of things I do. I no longer try to do anything that pushes me beyond my limits. I manage my illness. I stay away from situations that are bad for me. I say no alot. I kno wforms ar ehard for me so I allow lots of time or ask for them a head of time. I ask my husband to handle calls with confrontational people or subjects. I didn't hear it mentioned on the show but a symptom I have is not being able to ever feel good feelings. It's an especially cruel illness. I know that I love my children and my husband, but I can not feel those emotions. I have to tell myself to use a happy face and kind voice. I have to tell myself to hug, joke and play with them. I have never abused my children and I am a good mother. Just as children of any handicapped person, they understand that I can't do all the things other moms can do. They are okay with that because I am there for them and they know I love and take care of them. Even though my mind produces negative thoughts all day long, I remember that my children can't read my mind. Honestly, they can't "sense" it either. If  I smile and hug and act as a person who remembers what loving looked and  felt like, they in turn, get love. I have babysitters do fun trips with the children. I am not afraid to ask friends to take my children along on a zoo trip or an amusement park. I feel I am taking care of needs they have even though I can not do it myself...again just as any handicap or if you don't like that word, impaired person would do. I don't use those terms to illicit pity. I use them because that is the reality and truth of my life condition. Staying "real" about this illness has taken it's power over me away. That is my idea of responsible parenting and living as a bipolar mom. Remember, everyone has something... 

Lisa 

 
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March 7, 2006, 8:28 pm PST

03/07 Extreme Highs and Lows

Quote From: dnroberts

 Dr. Phil, 

  

     I believe Bi-Polar results from unresolved pain or feelings one has never expressed. When someone does not deal with their problems and stuff all  their issues down so deep believing they will not suface. The truth is someone's biological make up can change because of stress and trauma. The body and mind go into survival mode and the longer the body stays in survival mode the more the biological system changes in the body. People can be healed from this if the choose to deal with the root of the problem. I'm not saying all people are in this category. I just think as Americans  we areprone to take the quick fix instead of dealing with our problems. 

    Spiritual warfare exists today. The battle is in the mind. I know a woman who was bi- polar and has been healed. Not by medication but by prayer and reading the Bible. The LOrd has the power to do all things. My friend's mother was schizophrenic for all of her life. A couple of years ago she was in bed sick and she could not get up for days. Her radio was on a christian station preaching the gospel. She was healed and enjoying her life today. God is the miracle worker. The Word(Bible) is the bread of life. 

Could you cite your references about the origins of bipolar that you are refering to?

Particularly
"I believe Bi-Polar results from unresolved pain or feelings one has never expressed. When someone does not deal with their problems and stuff all  their issues down so deep believing they will not suface."

Many times [though not all, as you said] when bipolar or schizophrenia or epilepsy go untreated, it can get worse.
This is called kindling.
It suggests that behaviors/signals that are happening can have a tendency to keep happening if not treated.
they can get 'worse' and become more ingrained over time, which means that the bipolar, for example, can become more severe.
This is how untreated cyclothymia, in some cases, can lead to BPII.
or BPII, in some cases, can lead to BPI.

I tried to used a paths in the woods model but didn't get far:http://bipolar.about.com/cs/brainchemistry/a/0009_kindling1.htm

Even if there is no change in diagnoses, your brain still isn't happy with what goes on during a depressive episode or a manic episode.


I say all this because...
Bipolar has some enviromental factors, yes. Extraordinary amounts of stress can mess about with some of the thyroid hormones a bit. And outside forces can inflict enough stress to trigger a mood episode in those who are predisposed to it.
But the factors need to be present in the person. it is an organic disorder and it needs to be treated and addressed chemically.



prayer could help the stress and effects from the disorder, the chaos it may cause in our lives.
It won't protect your brain from frying.


http://www.mcmanweb.com/article-161.htm
http://www.moodswing.org/causes.html
 
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March 7, 2006, 8:42 pm PST

Not All bi polar people crash cars and choke kids

I have to say, I am glad to see that people are giving a voice to this disease.  BUT I have to say, the people that were used as examples are not always the "norm" of what bi polar is.  I am bipolar.  I take my meds EVERY day.  I never miss.  And that is a HUGE part of controlling the illness.  You have to keep up your appointments with your psycologist.  I feel that people like me, that are out spoken about this problem, and are very honest about what goes on with them, have been done a great dis-service.   

I do agree that people with bi polar need a very stong group of people around them, but not all of us crash our cars, or try and harm our kids.  I have been hospitalized with my illness, and my "husband," and the rest of my family are very involved with my problem and they watch me for signs of a "spell" coming on.   

One area that I don't think was covered was the problems with money that bi polar people face.  Or the OCD aspect of bi polar.  I just don't think that bi polar people were fairly. 

People with bi polar disorder need to have a strong family unit, and we need to have "gut checks" now and again, but  no matter what, we are adults, we have to take responsiblites for our actions.  Maybe I am totally wrong, maybe I am the one that needs more help, but I have been to the bottom, the absolute bottom and come back to about the middle, and I think that most people with bi polar disorder can do this with a little bit of help from family and friends instead of them deciding when our meds need to be increased and wheather or not we are fit for society. 

lal 

 
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March 7, 2006, 8:43 pm PST

RE: Support the families, I say.

"I can't say this is the case for all bipolar people, but I think in the case of some (many?), and in the case of my father, they don't want to be cured or truly get better."

Vegemite-

This is the case for a lot of people in a lot of different things.
I think when this happens it really has more to do with the person than the disorder. It's one thing to have a hard time getting help, or realizing you need help.

Some people just don't want to get help- that happens with a lot of different things.

.
Have you looked into any famiy support groups?
 
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March 7, 2006, 8:44 pm PST

Infidelity is common in bipolars

Quote From: mom2boysjb

My husband was recently diagnosed with bipolar, He claims that it was being in a manic state that led him to the lies and the affair. Any thoughts from anyone? How could he have turned off the mania so well and lied so well for almost 4 months? 

  

 My husband is also bipolar and has had an affair several times.  I go to counseling to help me deal with his illness, and my counselor has told me how common this is in bipolar people.  The divorce rate in marriages where one is bipolar is off the charts.  If you husband wants to stay in the marriage it is really up to what you can deal with and what is just more than you can handle.  No matter how much you love him...you have to take care of yourself.  I feel my husband and I belong together and I am fighting for my marriage.  It isn't easy and as I said before I do go for counseling to help me get through it.  What your husband did is very typical for bipolars....however that certainly doesn't make it right.  Living with a bipolar spouse is a very difficult thing to do, but this is an illness,  I wouldn't abandon my husband if he had cancer and I won't abandon him with this disease either.  May God give you wisdom as to what the right thing is for you to do.
 
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March 7, 2006, 8:45 pm PST

bipolar II info

Quote From: gwenthagy

I have read the messages you all have posted and know what you and your loved ones are going through.  It is heartbreaking!  My 15 year old was originally diagnosed ADHD by several doctors at Texas Children's Hospital in Houston, Texas when she was 4 years old.  We took her to the best.  About a year ago she was diagnosed with BiPolar II.  I have to travel 4 and half hours once a month to get the best medical care for her.  Her case is very mlld compared to what the rest of you are going through, however after reading some of your messages I do wonder if some of you have been properly diagnosed?  She has been doing very well and living a normal life with Lacmital (150 mg. daily) and Adderall (15 mg. daily).  My question is:  Are there varying degrees of BiPolar II (which my understanding is nothing compared to the more serious BiPolar I)?  Please enlighten me if you know.  Thanks for your help!

HI! 

  

My husband was diagnosed with Bipolar II in December.  As with most bipolar cases, it has taken 10 years+ and 4 different doctors to get to this point.  He is 33 years old and has tried at least 6 different anti-depressants and numerous sleep meds since 1999, but the depression kept "coming back".  Bipolar always came up, but we, along with the doctors, would always dismiss it because he never had mania - not the way we pictured it at least.  We stumbled upon our current doctor and she explained to us "hypomania" symptoms and it finally clicked.  He has been on Lamictal for only 2 weeks now so we are still in the "waiting for buildup" stage.  I am so happy to hear your daughter is doing well on it & it gives me hope that it will possible give my husband some relief.  Since December, I have been reading everything and anything I can find regarding bipolar II disorder and have found some helpful websites that describe the different "variations" of bipolar.  These sites also have links to other sites, recommend books, support groups, etc.   I hope you find them helpful as well.  

  • www.psycheducation.org - "a public service" site by Dr. James R. Phelps in Oregon - a lot of info to take in but well worth the time!
  • www.healthyplace.com - mental health information site - has different "communities"; bipolar community has overview of variations, section about bipolar in children, and if you click the support link, it has LOTS of help and support for those of us who love someone with bipolar and how we can help them and ourselves deal best with the illness!
  • www.nami.org - national alliance for mentally ill
  • www.dbsalliance.org - depression and bipolar support alliance 

In case you haven't been told lately, you are a WONDERFUL parent for driving so far to insure your daughter gets the care she needs.  She is very lucky to have you...be sure to take care of yourself too!!  best of luck! 

 
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