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Topic : 04/07 Social Taboos: Is This Normal?

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Created on : Friday, March 31, 2006, 12:55:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Admit it, you've judged people for doing things you considered inappropriate and abnormal in public. Meet Margaret, a stay-at-home mom who's tired of everyone thinking sex is taboo. She says she absolutely loves sex and she'll talk about it anytime, anywhere ... and with all of her kids. This includes showing them her sex toys, her sex swing and her X-rated Web site! But that's not all. Margaret is in a relationship with another woman, Jen, and Jen's husband. Now that she's pregnant, both women say they plan on breastfeeding the baby. Then, meet a husband who sometimes uses the F word six times in one sentence! Plus, meet three kids who think their mom dresses too sexy, and follow a woman's quest to change people's behavior in the grocery store, one shopper at a time. Join the discussion.

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April 7, 2006, 2:23 pm PDT

Messed Up!! Didn't mean this for you

Quote From: ktilton

AGREE MEANS YOUR SICK TOO!!

Hi, 

  

I replied to the wrong message.....So, sorry.  I meant it to the one that you had replied to.  So, just disregard this....I will post reply again to correct message.  Sorry, again 

  

What 16 year olds talk about in locker rooms, etc.?  

   

They do talk about sex to a degree  

Boys/Girls  

Teachers  

Gossip  

Among many other things I'm sure  

   

What 16 year olds DON'T talk about in locker rooms, etc.?  

   

Their dad, mom & their girlfriend swinging in a sex swing in their room.  

All the toys that mom, dad, & girlfriend have  

What their parents look like naked or their parents walk around naked  

My mom(s) have a website showing details about sex.  Here's their website _________.  

   

That is just my opinion of course!!!  

   

I think the reaction of the 16 year old when her friend was told she was masturbating, clearly states.....THIS IS NOT EDUCATIONAL!!!  

   

 
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April 7, 2006, 2:25 pm PDT

Possilbe Answer to your Question in ()

Quote From: empress_e

I'm not surprised to see the vast majority of people on this  board quickly condemming Margaret.  I was surprised, however, that Dr. Phil didn't.  He typically doesn't have a track record of being so open-minded about such topics on air.  (Or, he'll stack the cards against the issue at hand)  For that, I'm impressed.

Anyway, I think that most people on this board have gotten into such a dither because anything that doesn't conform to fundamental Christian values is immediately evil.  That being said, I stand behind Margaret nearly 100%.  I do have some issues with a few aspects, but I realize that I saw only a brief angle of her life - an angle that was constructed with an agenda by a national talk show.  I think that age appropriateness should be a bigger consideration for her - a 4 y/o just doesn't care or need to know about the majority of details discussed on the show; however, a 14 y/o would likely care and be interested (what else do you think they talk about at school in the bathroom and locker room).  I also hope that the parent trio instill self-love, respect, etc. within the realm of sexuality and without.  Again, these issues and others were not given full development on the show, and I'm not assuming that the parent trio don't do these things.

Finally - I don't think that this style of parenting should be for everyone (although most people on this board think that their style should be used by everyone else) - but I do think that most people should find more of a middle ground.  At the very least, recognize that America is a very sexually repressed nation, and that is no boon to men and women, young or old.

What 16 year olds talk about in locker rooms, etc.?  

   

They do talk about sex to a degree  

Boys/Girls  

Teachers  

Gossip  

Among many other things I'm sure  

   

What 16 year olds DON'T talk about in locker rooms, etc.?  

   

Their dad, mom & their girlfriend swinging in a sex swing in their room.  

All the toys that mom, dad, & girlfriend have  

What their parents look like naked or their parents walk around naked  

My mom(s) have a website showing details about sex.  Here's their website _________.  

   

That is just my opinion of course!!!  

   

I think the reaction of the 16 year old when her friend was told she was masturbating, clearly states.....THIS IS NOT EDUCATIONAL!!!  

 
 
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April 7, 2006, 2:25 pm PDT

04/07 Social Taboos: Is This Normal?

Quote From: freethinka

I agree- I think that these folks are really "over-doing" it, but they are in no way evil! I think that it would be best for these ppl to wait until their children are grown, to live in this way. But, I do understand that we all need fulfillment in our lives, and they don't think it nessesary to wait to have this fulfillment. Those who are calling these ppl "evil" are really ridiculous, and to suggest that CPS should be involved, is a bit silly. You can't arrest ppl and take away their children because they parent different than you do.

A man, his wife, and their girlfriend, who happens to be pregent, has a 12 yr. old female child walking around the house naked as punishment, what part of this is NOT out of line to you.  I am tired of everytime someone objects to one of these "free-minded ,anything goes, we don't care cuz it feels good to us" group of people, we are subjected to  "open-minded" people accusing us of being judgmental. Sometimes, like now one MUST take a stand. There is no fence sitting when it comes to the children. And if you don't think this life style is taking its toll on the children, YOU free thinkers don't have a clue. Have you checked out our younger generation lately. We have really done our jobs right? It's time someone get's involved and has the guts to say...Hey..thats NOT right.  

 
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April 7, 2006, 2:26 pm PDT

04/07 Social Taboos: Is This Normal?

I am almost angry that this woman thinks it is "ok" to discuss/show every aspect of sex with her children.  Where it is healthy to talk with them in an 'age appropriate manner' it is definitely NOT ok to do the things she is doing.  It is purely my opinion but to me it is very close to child abuse to subject them to this at their ages.  Am I crazy? 
 
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April 7, 2006, 2:26 pm PDT

04/07 Social Taboos: Is This Normal?

I think this woman is straddling a fine line, here. I think that children - being as I'm sixteen, myself - should have access to information regarding sex. I think it's a good thing that her children would feel comfortable enough to ask her about those kind of issues - but, of course at the same time, I think she's walking into dangerous territory. For starters, things of this nature should be age appropriate, and you don't show your fourteen year old daughter pictures of you and your partners engaging in sexual activity - that's just a disastor waiting to happen.

Now, if your child - take me, for instance - was old enough to ask you specific questions about sex, I'd say - by all means - answer them. Or, if you don't want to answer them yourself - or can't - atleast help them find the information they're looking for (be it through books, the internet, etc). This doesn't mean give them intimate details about your sex life, however. I really don't want to know what my parents do behind closed doors - that's their perogative and their personal space.

Sex itself is far too taboo, for something that is suppose to be natural. I'm not uptight about my sexuality and I plan to keep it that way. I do read information about sex - including books about different things that interest me, and I know I can ask my parents about these things if I want to - I usually prefer to find the information for myself. Being educated doesn't mean that you're more inclined to have sex - it just means that you're better prepared for when you think you're ready.

I see nothing wrong with poly relationships, either. One thing I did wonder was why the Dad wasn't there with the other two women. Was he even in the audience? Most of all, I think she (the main woman who was talking) wanted the attention - that doesn't mean it was a cry for help.
 
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April 7, 2006, 2:26 pm PDT

I absolutely agree

Quote From: perryman

Are you kidding me? Dr. Phil, you usually advocate for the children. What happened? Are you all of a sudden trying to be politically correct? Oh, please no. I usually have so much respect for your opinion. This crazy perverted woman and "partners" are using these kids for their own sexual pleasure. There is no logical reason to include their children in their sick twisted sex lives. I think they get off from being exhibitionist. Unfortunately, no other adult cares what these crazy adults do, so they force their views on their children. They best way for her to get attention, is to use their children to shock others, because no one in their right mind would give a rat's behind what that woman does or does not do sexually with her partners. The only reason she is getting the attention she desires is because she is abusing her children,  and making it sound like she is educating them. . . Give me a break. She is a sexual predator. I think it is criminal what she is doing to her own children. She also includes her children's friends. Telling one that her daughter was masturbating. That is obviously for her pleasure in some sick twisted way. Dr. Phil, I hope, pray, and fully expect you to call child protective services to investigate this family.  I am not even talking about their lifestyle, which is appalling. I am talking about how she is using her children for her sexual pleasures.
I agree with you and the others that are as horrified as I am.  I also agree, with others who think Margaret knows what she is doing might be wrong, and she's recahing out for help, by daring Dr. Phil to call CPS.  This has nothing to do with our society being uptight with sex.  This has to do with the emotional and physical well-being of those children.  If these children start behaving the way their "parents" are, they are going to set themselves up for STD's, sexual predators, emotional instability, issues with intimacy, and a wealth of other problems.  Margaret, and the other two "parents" involved, are selfish.  They are not educating, but abusing their children by taking away their innocence.  Let's try to keep children as children, it''s their innocence that reminds us adults of how we should not take things for granted.  Please, someone get some help into this family before it's too late.
 
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April 7, 2006, 2:27 pm PDT

04/07 Social Taboos: Is This Normal?

Quote From: tebssis

I really identified with this young father, I find it hard not to use the "F" word in day to day life and not because I lack the vocabulary, because it's so darn funny. As proven by the laughs while you read the "rose" list.  I've found that if I slip in front of children even strangers, if I apologize immediately and tell them that what I said is strictly adult talk and they should never repeat ANYTHING that I say, they have acted according to my wishes. It's kind of a running joke with my friends' kids, they finish the rest of the apology before I can even finish.   

Lighten up, people, it's a WORD! Although I don't condone cussing in front of children, I'm tired of catering to a bunch of kids that aren't going to be prepared to live in the real world because you've sheltered them from any and all adult language.  

  

It's not just a word. It's a disrespectful word. I bet if you were in a job interview you could control the urge to curse. That's because you CARE about the job interview. That being the case, have a care for the children in your life too and don't be so disrespectful around them.  

  

My mom once had to testify in court because of abusive language used in her work place. After she testified and was forced to say the 'F' word in order to clarify what abusive language was used, she came home and washed her own mouth out with soap.  

 
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April 7, 2006, 2:27 pm PDT

SWEAR WORDS...WHAT DO THEY MEAN?

Hi Dr. Phil.  this is for your guest who swears.... 

  

My husband sometimes swears (very occasionally), and when I was younger I was highly offended as well, because I did not grow up in a "swearing" home.  Over the 20 years I began to realize that a swear word is just a few letters stuck together to form a sound.  "Why" is that word bad? I wondered.  I don't think I could find it in the dictionary, and I wanted to know its origin and literal meanings.  Eventually I did discover what some swear words mean, and why they are "wrong".   

  

I learned in Brittish Literature that in ancient times when the French began living in England, they did not relish the English language very much because it was considered "vulgar".  Because English comes from German, many people still consider the sound of German as "vulgar" or hard.  It is not a smooth or beautiful language to hear, like french, spanish or italian.  It has a choppy, war-like sound, and I am sure the elegant French thought the same thing.  The French elite soon banned alot of English words from their language, even though they learned to speak English.  One of my professors explained to us that this is why in English language only, we raise cows but we eat "beef" - the french thought it vulgar to eat "cow".  We raise pigs but we eat "pork" - again very vulgar to eat a pig.  Even now, in German when you order a pound of "hamburger" you have to ask for "hackfleish" - the literal translation of "hackfleish" is HACKED FLESH - pretty vulgar.  "What are we having for dinner mom?"  "Nothing fancy, honey, we're roasting some wads of hacked flesh out on the back bon-fire..."  Same is true for the word FART.  It's an Old English word that isnt "as" offensive as some words and one of the true remainders of our Old language heritage.  Basically the French decided that English was not that spiffy of a language, and I'm rather offended by that, I like my vulgar, war-like language, it's my heritage and no one has the right to take any part of it away - not even the explitives (though I do not use them).  I personally do not consider them "explitives" any more, but instead a dying part of my own language that another group decided was not elegant enough for them.  On to the word F**K, and SH*T. 

  

F**K:  According to Webster's on-line dictionary, it originates with danish and sweedish languages (the Viking languages, of course), and it merely means "to copulate".  I suppose the Vikings went around hoping that their cattle would "fokken" in order to bring them greater wealth and some food for the winter.  Likewise the Sweadish version of the word is "fokka", and they also hoped to have larger heards of cattle as a blessing of wealth.  Of course we don't wish that blessing upon people today, we hope they are "fertile and multiply"...but I fail to see the difference between this phrase and the intent of the Anglo Saxon intent - to copulate in order to gain greater numbers.  In Hebrew, the word is FRUITFUL, and you can find it's translation in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, word # 6509, which translates from the Hebrew PARAH, meaning:  to bear, brin gforth, fruitful, grown or increase, and also refers to cow, heifer or kine.  Again it is the wish that the animal herds would multiply, and may also be applied to people in hebrew, as God uses it in Genesis.  I personally do not think that F**K is a bad or dirty word, it just means to gain an increase through copulation.  We all do that.  It's not bad.  Its just a word that has been "given" a bad meaning by some stuck up french people in another era.  Those people are dead now.  They don't make language rules.  And they don't govern me, so why should I do as they say?  Only because everyone out there "thinks" its bad, even though the evidence proves them wrong. 

  

THE WORD SH*T:  this is a word originating in MIDDLE ENGLISH.  It's old spelling is SCITE.  it means TO DIVIDE, and refers to excrement.  Unfortunately for all of us, if you are not dead, you will participate in creating excrement.  It's stinky, but everything gives off waste.  Even yeast gives off waste products in grape juice and that is what makes the grape juice (or other alcoholic beverages) alcoholic...so basically people will DRINK SH*T, but they will not say it...peculiar.   

  

Dr. Phil, I just think that people get so roped in to what they are told to do that they forget to think and explore.  I have another example that I am currently questioning.  It is the color terms used for different races, specirfically "black" and "white".  I was sitting thinking, one day, and realized that most "black" people are not actually "black".  I went and got a black object out and low and behold, it is a DIFFERENT COLOR from what is traditionally termed "black" complexion.  I further explored.  I am officially supposed to be "white".  I got a white piece of paper out and, guess what, I'M NOT WHITE!!!!.  What color are most people?  WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT SHADES OF BROWN.  So once again we have been TOLD by people who are now dead that a certain idea is actually true, when it actually is false even by evidence of the naked eye.  I challenge these false ideas.  The words F**k and SH*T are not "bad", they are from languages that were formerly condemned by some high fallutin' group who thought their language was better.  I disagree with "color coding" people especially with colors they obviously are not.  I think people need to ask, "is this really true?" and then explore a bit.   

  

As far as using these words in front of Children, (F and S), since thgese words are socially unacceptable for false reasons, we need not teach them to our children, so they will not be shunned by their piers and elders.  Not using such words is really a form of self controll, and usually the higher class persons have been able to display a greater degree of self-controll in the past, which is "why" a class system developed.  It all goes back to breaking society up into groups of people who judge others because some people "do" things that others do not.  I think we should keep the judgment on others to the truely bad behaviors like theft, murder, physical violence, lying, and so forth, and ignore bad language, it is only vulgar because it belongs to a language group formerly regarded as lesser.   

  

SOLUTION TO THIS MAN'S "PROBLEM":  Because his wife and children are being judged by the uneducated others when he uses this language, he needs to cease from using such language when they are with him, whether it is in private or public.  They are greatly embarrassed because of the judgment of community upon them because general society does not know the origins of such words.   He needs to select times when these words are appropriate and when they are not.  Using this kind of language with your trucking buddies and your motor cycle friends when out having a beer is fine.  When with your wife and kids at Chucky Cheese?  Nope, don't use it.  I suppose when you are copulating or creating excrement in private, it is "ok" to use such words...if the mood strikes.  I also think one should us the word in relation to what it means.  This man is using the word incorrectly.  The "F" word is a verb and referrs to the copulation of cattle, usually.  So next time he is trying to get a herd of cattle to copulate, he may use this word liberally, just as the word "bitch" referrs to female dogs in official paperwork - one should not refer to a human being with this word, not because it is insulting (though it is), but because it is not correct use.  I would like to remind this man that his family is his church.  Although you take your family "to" church, when you are at home, your family is your smallest community of faith, and you, the father, are their priest, in whatever you teach them.  Therefore use words with high ideals, and positive meanings so that your family can aspire to good things.   

  

Other words inappropriate - Damn - Damn is not a "bad" word either, it is a sentence to eternal separation from all that is good.  One should never wish that on another person, the wish may come back to you.  Only God can damn anything, and God usually will not do so.  He allows us to choose whether we want to dwell with him or not - we choose our own damnation, and God allows this.  Thererfore do not elevate yourself to God's level and begin pronouncing damnation on others, for even God will not do this. 

  

WATCH A POPULAR BRITTISH TV SHOW TO LEARN NEW EXPLITIVES:  I also suggest that this man rent the John Cleese t.v. sitcom called "FAULTY TOWERS" - it is about a man and wife who run a hotel and all the "wacky" things that go on in it.  When the woman mentions his wife's mother, he comes up with some very ridiculous explitives that are so humerous, that you just roll out of your chair, and guess what, they are not considered vulgar at all, insulting, yes, but so funny that no one could be offended.  Something about Hippopotomii, and other rediculous things.  Instead of ceasing to curse at all times, this man should try to put boundaries on "when" he curses, never around women and children - that's a good rule, and also never around ministers, educated persons, or employers.  Otherwise, curse away! 

 
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April 7, 2006, 2:27 pm PDT

mandatory reporter

Obviously, these women (and the husband) have some significant issues that need addressing that are the underlying cause(s) of their inappropriate behavior .  But all that aside, they are promoting a lifestyle that is putting their minor children in emotional and psychological (and potentially physical - lack of boundaries etc) danger and as such should be reported to their local child protective services agency.  As a psychologist, Dr. Phil has an ethical obligation to do so.  I am disappointed to see him handling them with kid-gloves.  Pick up the phone, make the call, protect the kids.
 
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April 7, 2006, 2:28 pm PDT

Someone must help these children

I have never written into a message board, but had to add my vote to the majority of messages received.  What Margaret and/or her partners choose to do as adults is their business.  It would make more sense if they didn't feel the need to share it with the world on your show and ruin everyone's Friday afternoon.  But to subject those children to this is absolutely child abuse.  Why is it we do our best to lock up sexual predators and porno webmasters for subjecting our children to this kind of thing, but would allow their own parents to do this?  We would certainly be calling the authorities if they were being beaten or starved..........this kind of childhood will affect the rest of their lives.  Surely someone watching the show recognizes these women......neighbors, teachers, etc.  And doesn't everyone helping to produce the show have cell phones? 

  

 
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