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Topic : 04/12 Dangerous Love

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Created on : Friday, April 07, 2006, 10:09:03 am

Author : DrPhilBoard1

If two people are truly in love, does anyone have the right to judge them? What if their relationship crosses moral boundaries? Jeremy, 16, is disturbed that his 45-year-old father, Chuck, is engaged to a 17-year-old girl who used to be his classmate. Chuck says he wants to spend the rest of his life with Michelle. The constant fighting in the house led to Jeremy moving out. Why did Michelle's mom allow her daughter to move in with Chuck? Did Chuck mislead her? See what Dr. Phil tells these parents they must do. Then, Angela is repulsed that her brother, Anthony, wants to marry their second cousin, Tosha. Anthony says he loves Tosha and nothing's going to stop their relationship from moving forward. Does Angela have a legitimate reason to be concerned? Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

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debram1218

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April 13, 2006, 3:02 pm PDT

04/12 Dangerous Love

Quote From: unispecter

It's possible that Chuck loves you, but even if he does, you can still find someone who is more compatible with you. Imagine finding a man around your age - your family would accept him, he wouldn't die a decade before you - leaving you with children to raise alone, possibly in poverty, his family would accept you, and no one would regard your husband as a pedophile. Are you willing to sacrifice your peace of mind for this man? If so, love is more than just blind - it's insane.

actually...

in 2003 the CDC reported a reduction in the life expectancy gap between men at women. Men live, statistically speaking, to be 75.4. women... 80.5.

so... Chuck has a good 30 years left.

Michell has 63.5

he will LIKELY die while she's still of childbearing age! how SHOCKING is that!?!?!

IF Michelle smokes 4 packs a day, does heroin and eats NOTHING but fried eggs and red meat she MIGHT ONLY outlive him by a decade. ;)

debbie

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groovy

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April 13, 2006, 3:04 pm PDT

What Chuck sees in a 17 year-old high school drop out:

Quote From: sarha_j

im just curious as to what a 45 year old man with 2 sons.. can see in a 17 year old high school drop out? i dont care WHAT the law says.. this just does not seem morally right in any way. and i know some people will say "age is just a number" and it depends on her "maturity" but this girl is about as mature as a green banana! if shes droping out of school with no job and possibly doing drugs and drinking at the age of 17, im sorry but that shows ABSOLUTLY no maturity! and the mother of this girl should be dragging her home EVERY time she runs away! because if your husband couldnt make it to the show because he would cause this man harm... there is OBVIOUSLY some very very wrong about this situation!

Sex.

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juliebgg

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April 13, 2006, 3:06 pm PDT

good analysis

Quote From: rapunzel

I think her family history (kind of unstable and lacking in the nurturing department) and her personal history of making decsions like "I'm gonna drop out of high school", "I'm gonna run away", "I'm gonna do drugs", "I'm gonna drink excessively", "I'm gonna shack up with an old man" is a pretty good indicator that she is emotionally fragile and immature. not in an insulting way, just in the way that results when you don't grow up feeling loved and nurtured...in the way that a really lot of kids like her seek out a father figure willing to 'love' them like this. If she has never really felt loved before, then to her, any love-like feeling probably counts as happy. troubled kids regularly confuse exploitation for happiness. If she spends a couple of years living on her own and in therapy, sets up a support system of friends etc, and feels secure and loved and sure of herself, and STILL wants to be with chuck, then more power to her!! it's her being with him through lack of other options that's creepy. it's not a choice, if it's her only option.

Good analysis, Rapunzal- you have given this deep thought based on your response, and I agree with what you are saying. Unfortunately some people on here don't look at things so deeply and just start crying "don't judge" when you don't agree with them. Yes it is GLARINGLY obvious that that girl is emotionally fragile-again, not in an insulting way as you put it-but immature just the same. It is also GLARINGLY obvious based on her decision making that she is far from ready for a relationship at 17 and is probably very vulnerable to slipping into the wrong kind of relationship since she is so needy. She needs growing time-through therapy and she needs education. Maybe several years down the road she can make a more informed decision about what is in her best interests.

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juliebgg

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April 13, 2006, 3:09 pm PDT

groovy

Quote From: groovy

I don't mean to be flip but did you watch the show?

Profile of a girl who is likely to be emotionally fragile - broken home, serious financial problems at home, sick mother, parents out of touch with her activities, estranged relationship with her parents, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, not doing well in school, getting in trouble at school, drops out of school, dependent on an older man for all her needs.

Evidence of immaturity: Drops out of the 10th grade & not working on her GED/academic/financial future, sitting around all day doing nothing as opposed to doing something productive, can't or doesn't hold a job, completely defensive about her behavior without considering alternative points of view, rude to Chuck's sons, reportedly lies & steals (although we don't have her side of the story), very disrespectful to posters on this DB., the naivity of believing a guy really loves you when he says it just a few days after you've met + sleeping with him on day 5 + moving in with him on by day 30.

There are some excellent posts about why Michelle & Chuck's situation is not analogous to your own. I suggest you go back & re-read them. This situation is not about true love by people who happened to have an age difference. It's about an older man taking advantage of a girl from a rocky home/school situation & using her for his sexual gratification. If he truly loved her, he would be encouraging her to get her education, hold a job & develop the means for financial independence. If he truly loved her, he wouldn't have set a 2014 wedding date! These are TRICKS he's using to keep her around & financially dependent on him (& less likely to meet a boy her own age.) She is unable to depend on either herself or her parents to meet her financial needs. She's 100% dependent on Chuck. This so-called engagement is part of Michelle's emotional incentive to stay around without Chuck having legal financial ties to her. By keeping Michelle financially dependent & emotionally hooked with the carrot (or carot) of a supposed 2014 wedding, he has set the stage to keep her around for his own sexual gratification until he throws her away for a younger girl.

I SECOND that!!!! Great post.

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lmish728

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April 13, 2006, 3:11 pm PDT

04/12 Dangerous Love

Quote From: rebekah87

No! She is not going to be a minor much longer does anyone consider that? If she is 17 1/2 then she will be turning 18 this year right?

I don't think her age at this time really matters. She was 15 years old when he starting having sex with her. Would you feel differently if this show aired 2 years ago when she was 15? Think about that. Chuck is a preditor. This has been going on for 2 years. Her mind wasn't emotionaly ready for this type of thing and it still isn't. I feel so sad for this girl.

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groovy

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April 13, 2006, 3:19 pm PDT

Several reasons why Chuck & Michelle's situation upsets people

Quote From: rebel80

A few things in the above quote bother me. One being that if they make it till she is 20 Chuck will leave her for another teen. Now I know that is not true in all cases. And this may be a case where that may not happen. And for that matter a boy this girl's own age could do the very same thing to her. So age does not even really play apart in that.

Second that her brain is not fully developed yet. I bring this up because a few people have said if she was 18 it wouldn't be so bad. So I have to ask is it the law that is getting everyone upset or is it the age difference? Would be upet if she was 18 and him 45. Would you be upset if she was 20 and him 45. Would you be upset if she was 25 and him 45?

I meet my hubby when I was barely 18. We have now been together for around 7-8 yrs. We got married 4 yrs ago. He will be 42 this yr. We have 3 beautiful kids together. And I know he would never leave me for someone younger. Never.

Michelle I wish you and Chuck all the best in the world. If both of you really love each other than I hope you make it. I hope you get to live a long happy life with the guy you love.

The age difference IS a problem at this age. It becomes more of a problem the older the younger partner is & less of a problem the older the younger partner is. So if she's 10 & Chuck is 38, it's a HUGE problem. If she's 17 & Chuck is 45, it's still a big problem. If She's 45 & Chuck is 73, not a problem. I don't know the exact moment where it 100% ceases to be a problem.

People are also upset b/c of how unhealthy the situation is for Michelle both in the present & the financial difficulties/dependencies on men she's setting up for herself in the future. If Michelle were a bright honors student with a part-time job, people would still have a problem with the age difference, but less so with the piece that she's stunting her intellectual & financial growth/potential.

Age plays a HUGE part in Chuck's exploitation of Michelle. She looks up to him as an older & wiser man. If a 17 year-old boy were out to exploit her, she would be pitted against a person with the same amount of life experience/comparable levels of brain development. When a 45 year-old man is out to exploit her, she's pitted against someone who was developing life experience for 28 years before she was even born. A 17 year-old boy would have a difficult time engineering a situation where Michelle stays home all day while he earns a living wage & supports both of them nor getting her to believe a 2014 wedding date is for real.

I think that some (not all but some) of the women on this board who married much older men whom they met when they were 17 or 18 & had it work out have blinders on. They assume that like their rare situation, Michelle & Chuck are true love. There is so much evidence that it's NOT! It's about Chuck exploiting Michelle & Michelle being naive enough to believe it.

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powers009

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April 13, 2006, 3:25 pm PDT

04/12 Dangerous Love

Quote From: judyblue22

Chuck said (about marriage): "Michelle and I will wait about eight years. I want her to be old enough to make a conscious decision."

I read that as an admission that she isn't able to make a "conscious decision" right now about her relationship with him. I also think that is just a dodgy technique to keep the cow happy while he milks her for a while.

Conscious thought begets a mature thought. If she is old enough to make a conscious thought to have sex with then she is old enough to marry.

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rebekah87

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April 13, 2006, 3:39 pm PDT

04/12 Dangerous Love

Quote From: lmish728

I think I would feel differently about this if it would of aired 2 years ago but It didnt. She is almost 18 and when she is is this really going to be a problem for anyone?

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debram1218

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April 13, 2006, 3:39 pm PDT

your heart might be in my kid's face!?!?!?!?! huh?~!

Quote From: bass61688

I am the 17 yr. old that is engaged to Chuck. In Indiana, it is quite legal for us to be together. We are not getting married until I am done with college and have my career under control. We want to make sure I am ready for that commitment. We have been together for a year and a half, and that is a hell of a lot longer than most people thought we would make it. As far as children go we agreed not until I am at least 28. Chuck is a great guy, and a great father. He is stable and encourages his children to do what they believe is right. Which is why we went on the show. So watch what you say, you never know, the heart of me could be the face of your child one day. Think about that.

Michelle

oh, Michelle....

i got married at 17... TO a 17 year-old. different situation. i'm just saying it's hard for a 17 year-old to make a decision that is necessarily in their best interest. ESPECIALLY if there is a crowd of people telling them it's not a good one.

in a way, that's like "double-dog-darin'" someone!!

that old saying "if i only knew then... what i know now" is so damned true!!!!

i suspect you don't feel like you have many other choices. your parents failed you. they failed to support you emotionally, to let you know how important you were and to be your safety net when you needed one.

how sad that chuck would see a broken little girl... and take advantage of her.

how sad that your mother didn't follow through with legal action.

i seriously doubt i'll see your heart... in my daughter's face. instead, i'll see a young lady with inner strength and a lack of respect for people that might exploit her. i'll be her safety net... and will kick the ass of anyone that threatens her mental/physical well-being.

i hope you find your way in this life...

it's hard... and our choices have long-term ramifications.

debbie

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rebekah87

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April 13, 2006, 3:43 pm PDT

04/12 Dangerous Love

Quote From: juliebgg

But it is obvious that she will be a very immature 18. Can't hold a job, hasn't completed 10th grade, hangs around in the basement all day, good chance she is on something. Great credentials for success, right???

I did not say that she has great credentials for success but if she does not make her own mistakes in life then how will she know what she really wants out of it? Did you not make your own bad decisions and learn from them? Then What makes her so different?

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