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Topic : 04/12 Dangerous Love

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Created on : Friday, April 07, 2006, 10:09:03 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
If two people are truly in love, does anyone have the right to judge them? What if their relationship crosses moral boundaries? Jeremy, 16, is disturbed that his 45-year-old father, Chuck, is engaged to a 17-year-old girl who used to be his classmate. Chuck says he wants to spend the rest of his life with Michelle. The constant fighting in the house led to Jeremy moving out. Why did Michelle's mom allow her daughter to move in with Chuck? Did Chuck mislead her? See what Dr. Phil tells these parents they must do. Then, Angela is repulsed that her brother, Anthony, wants to marry their second cousin, Tosha. Anthony says he loves Tosha and nothing's going to stop their relationship from moving forward. Does Angela have a legitimate reason to be concerned? Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

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April 13, 2006, 6:30 am PDT

immature at 37

Quote From: redlocks

Michelle, I just want you to know that I have your back.  You and Chuck look very happy together despite how bad Dr. Phil tried to make your relationship look.  I met my husband when I was 17 and he was 37.  We have been married for 25 years and I have not been sorry for even one minute.  Please don't listen to all the judgmental voices on this board....they have not walked in your shoes so they do not know what they are talking about......but I have.  We have 5 children together who have grown into very successful adults.  I went back to school and got my degree which you will too when the time is right for you.  My husband has two daughters...one a year older than me and the other a year younger than me.  The younger daughter was my best friend for the first 15 years until she died in a car accident.  My husband and I then took in her two children and raised them too.  However, the older daughter has never accepted me completely but we do get along for the most part.  She has accepted the fact that I am here to stay.  Eventually everyone will move on to a different topic to whine about and people will just see you two for who you are....just two people who love eachother.  Most people don't even notice the age difference between us anymore.  If this is what you really want then stick to your guns....the naysayers will fade away.  As far as having children is concerned I would not wait until you are 28.  We started having children when I was 21......my husband (now 62) says they keep him young.  Last weekend he took our 7 year old snowboarding for the 11 time (he snowboards with the grown children too.)  The only concern that I have is that I will have a lot of life left to live when he does pass away but then  again anyone can be a widow at any age. Life makes no promises so grab what you can, ignore the naysayers, live your life and be happy!
I have read lots of your posts and you insult (and do plenty of judging yourself) many people who come across as more with it and intelligent than your postings sound.  You are lumping a very immature girl who is foolish and being used into the same category  with your rare relationship that has survived despite having started when you were only 17.  Michelle has alot of issues-poor parenting, lack of education, drug problems, laziness, inabaility to hold a job.  Would you say that that is a firm foundation for a lasting marriage?  Does she sound ready to you for this major step?  You seem to think in very narrow terms-  "My young marriage to an older man worked therefore Michelle's will work."  It doesn't work for everyone just because yours did.  And Michelle's is going to flop hard for many reasons.  So you are in essence ill-advising this girl who already had poor guidance from her non-caring parents. Stop telling people who have more sense than you do not to judge or offer sound advice. 
 
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April 13, 2006, 6:36 am PDT

16 yr old mom

Quote From: killerb255

If you were together for three years, that means you were 13 years of age when you got together, right?  That means, you were under the legal age of consent in your province, correct? 

  

The way I see it is, if, without a shadow of a doubt, there are two loving people in the relationship (and not one trying to exploit the other for their own selfish needs or one just simply seeking a quick fix for their low self-esteem or to get narcissistic supply), and you are within the legal age of consent, that's a-okay with me.  Hell, my mom was 18 when she had me, 17 when she got married, and my father was 30 and 29 respectively (although my mom and dad got divorced when I was 9--my father really was simply exploiting her low self-esteem). 

  

The problem with Michelle and Chuck is that there are traces of doubt.  Michelle has extreme narcissistic (some normal teenage narcissism, others questionable) tendencies, doesn't have the best of pasts, says she's mature while demanding for people to think that of her (as opposed to taking the initiative and commanding it), and doesn't care who she hurts. 

  

The fact that you didn't cut off all communication to naysayers like she's doing speaks volumes of you positively in comparison with Michelle.  At least you're willing to hear other opinions, even if you don't fully agree with them.  

If he is so in love with you,why couldn't he marry you before impregnating you?Love means COMMITMENT!!
 
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April 13, 2006, 6:38 am PDT

04/12 Dangerous Love

Quote From: ummzainab

Yeah! 

  

I am only 33 and have been married 4 times already, and will be ending my fourth marriage soon too. 

  

I am not a party girl. I don't do drugs or drink.  I am religious, but I don't know why this is happening?  (other than perhaps the sexual abuse and family life I lived as a child!). 

I am looking forward to watching the show tomorrow. 

Dr. Phil I wish you could shed more light on the reasons that some women do this. 

  

My dream is to have a stable family life with a good husband, and I have not found that.  My first marriage was at 23 and so in a span of 10 years, I have been married 4 times.  I am embarrased and really sad about this, especially that God has blessed me with a child from my 3rd marriage.  I want a good life for my daughter. 

So far, I have decided that for my daughter's best interest I should remain single so as to provide her with stability and help raise her well. 

  

If my previous experiences have caused any changes, it's that I have worked hard to becoming successful.  I thank God for this, as I have become a published author and I am furthering my studies as well.  I will soon launch an educational website in my native language, and hopefully  (if all goes well) opening a school in my community. 

  

So Dr. Phil why do some women seem to make bad husband choices?  What was I doing wrong? 

Thanks. 

  

I am 36.  I have only been married once to a very abusive man.  We have a 13 year old daughter, she is the light of my life.  I have been in therapy for four years and trust me, it has worked wonders.  No longer do I feel the need to be with someone-I am my own person.  I think you should find a good therapist..you sound so sweet and caring.  I can understand the bad choices in men, I made few myself.. 

  

I have finally found someone who is a great guy, full of understanding.  Still, I am not rushing into anything.  Perhaps you rushed?  Stay single for a year or so.  Pay attention to your needs!!!  Your child will love having its mother being healthy and happy.  I decided to listen to my needs and I am also finished with college-and my daughter is pround of me.  I am a better mother than I ever was.   

  

Do not sell yourself short-and do not think you are doing anything wrong.  Just remember you are human and want to be loved.  Right now, do not worry about having love from a man-get love from friends and family.  If you want to chat, just reply to this message and I will give you my email address. 

 
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April 13, 2006, 6:41 am PDT

04/12 Dangerous Love

Quote From: profcoun

I can not believe that you think what you are doing with this child is not perverted.  If you had a 17 year old daughter would you be so thrilled that she chose a 45 year old man to companion?  If this young lady won't be old enough to make a decision as to marriage until 2014, how can you possibly believe her old enough now to have a marital relationship with out the vows?  You are using this child and maybe your case will be the one that changes the laws in your state.  In most states you would already be serving time.   

  

The parents of this girl don't get off so easily either.  Mom, you are full of excuses for not taking care of your daughter.  And dad......where were you today?  You two could care less what happens to your daughter and have demonstrated that quite clearly.   

Excellent Points!!! I hope they read this 
 
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April 13, 2006, 6:49 am PDT

michelle your dumb!!

Quote From: ash089

Look it is wrong and u think ur more mature than most 17 years olds ur not u would not if u where u would not be dating a 45 year old u would be dating someone ur own age do u wanna no why ur family hates every ounce of chuck because he is dating u a minor thats wrong u need to find someone ur own age to date and maybe u would be a better person
Michelle,your dumb,too immature to realize the magnitude of your actions,you will regret it!as for your mother and father,they should be ashamed of themselves,it's very obvious your mom was worried more about her husband than you.But being immature and dumb,you just don't know it yet!!
 
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April 13, 2006, 6:52 am PDT

playing to his advantage

Quote From: powers009

You know I was thinking the same thing. Just one thing puzzles me He thinks she is old enough to have sex with but not old enough to marry. I see a problem here. He is just keeping his thumb on her by saying they are engaged.
Obviously he plays everything to his advantage.  I agree he is just keeping her on the hook by saying they are engaged. This way he can have his cake and eat it too (not be tied down by marriage but sleep with her) He obviously does not have her best interests at heart, just his own selfish gratification
 
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April 13, 2006, 6:56 am PDT

04/12 Dangerous Love

Quote From: haylee

ok so i am a 13 year old girlwho thinks it would be awsome to be marring a old guy so exicting and different i don't see anything wrong with it
honey get of this site,you don't even know how to spell marrying?Stay inschool,you have to much time on your hands,If I were mother I would keep you off the computer!
 

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April 13, 2006, 7:06 am PDT

He is clearly a pedophile!!

Quote From: lovepets38

Excellent Points!!! I hope they read this 

The basic truth of the issue is that this man is a pedophile.  Did anyone notice that although she is 17, she looks about 13?  And she obviously has the emotional maturity of an early teen as well.  I think the real reason that he set the date for 2014 is that she'll begin to "lose her looks" by then.  This makes me so angry - why the heck didn't Dr. Phil lace into this pervert? 

  

 
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April 13, 2006, 7:07 am PDT

justafan- a very intelligent post!!!

Quote From: justafan

Chuck and Michelle's situation is unique to them so YOU may not know what you're talking about either!  Their problems are not as simple as deep love between two people mismatched by age.  You are unique in that you have made a go of it with your marriage but you are the exception not the rule for some very good reasons. 

  

The age difference isn't the ONLY issue but it is a BIG one because, in fact,  there is almost 30 years between those two, not 20, and those 10 years make a huge difference.  Also, our society is more tolerant of huge age differences between couples only when the two people involved are old enough and mature enough for their decision to be taken seriously, i.e. a 30 year-old and a 60 year-old. 

  

Another difference is that Michelle has obvious, numerous and SERIOUS personal problems - runaway, rebellious, self-destructive, substance abuser, school drop-out.  She is clearly in no state of mind to decide whether or not she is in love with anyone, never mind Chuck.  She is perhaps punishing her parents but is really punishing herself.  She has prostituted herself to Chuck in exchange for food and shelter, acquiring a sugar daddy.  Chuck in turn is a john who is purchasing sex from a juvenile, while deluding himself that he is helping her. 

  

Without education or financial resources, Michelle has positioned herself for life-long dependence on others, most likely men who look for that type of vulnerable woman as easy targets to abuse.  She has absolved herself of responsibility for her own future.  She is a mixed-up teenager who has been seduced and taken advantage of by a much, much older man who should know better. 

  

As the adult in this situation, not only is Chuck screwing up Michelle's life but he is also screwing up his son's lives.  As young as they are, they KNOW something is NOT right about what their father is up to.  If he was a well-balanced, mature individual, he would understand the effect his actions are having and take a step back.  If they were truly in love, mature love can wait until Michelle gets her act together and Chuck re-examines his own motives.  As a grown man, presumably with a functioning brain, what possible stimulation, other than sex, could he receive from a 17 year-old school drop-out?  I think Chuck must be incapable of interacting socially with women his own age, due to some deep personality flaw. 

  

Michelle is damaged and he is damaging her further.  She is obviously looking for a father figure to give her security and guidance but who wants to have sex with their father? Chuck is a predator who has escaped prosecution only because the laws in his jurisdiction are flawed, not because there is nothing wrong with what he is doing. 

  

I mean, really, Chuck wants to be FRIENDS first with his children, and PARENT second.  What a jerk!  I am amazed his sons have turned out so well but I guess they have had to raise themselves and did a great job.  Where is their mother??? 

Wow, you said what I feel and have posted but in so much more detail.  I have tried to tell that poster you were responding to that you can't make such a broad generalization just because her young marriage to an older person worked out.  It is actually dangerous to do so in Michelle's case because of her immaturity and background. And you are so on target about how she is setting herself up for failure and dependence in the future.  She doesn't have the education nor the ability to hold a job and therefore will be dependent, mainly on the type of people who will exploit her. Amd Chuck is messed up too in his own way.  You are right-he needs to be a parent first.  And he is definitely using an immature unbalanced girl.
 
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April 13, 2006, 7:15 am PDT

Dangerous Love

Quote From: galtier906

 Dr. Phil -- I am a little disappointed with how you dismissed the feelings of the young woman who was upset about the romantic relationship between the cousins.  Yes, there is probably little risk of birth defects occurring if children are born to this couple.  But, the issue of how other family members feel about the relationship was pretty much washed right over.  Genetic issues aside, the issues of inappropriate boundaries between family members was completely ignored.  2nd cousins are probably not that big of a deal, but I personally feel that other family members have a right to feel upset about this.  If you spend your whole life together as a family -- births, birthdays, holidays, shared joys, shared losses, a shared genetic pool and connections, and each member in the family has a role that they occupy -- whether it be mother, father, sibling, aunt, uncle, cousin -- etc., to expect other family members to be open and supportive of such a relationshiip -- especially initially -- is a bit of a reach, in my opinion.  It's disrespectful and indulgent of this couple, and shows a lack of understanding of other people's feelings.  It is their business because it's family business.  To just throw a relationship such as this in the family's face, then not expect people to be upset -- well, I just think that is unfair, insensitive and pompous. 

My parents are first cousins, my grandfathers were brothers and my grandmothers  were 1st cousins. My parents did get a special dispense from the Pope at the time to marry.  I am one of 9 children, we are all normal and healthy, are well educated and hold good jobs. Teaches, nurses, etc 

We celeberated just last summer , my parents 70th Wedding Anniversary. Dad is 95, Mom is 89 and are still living in their own apartment. All children and 22 grandchildren, 5 great grandchildren are normal and healthy. 

  

So to the couple who are cousins, go for it. Love will overcome. 

 
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