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Topic : 04/17 Dangerous Kids

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Created on : Thursday, April 13, 2006, 01:12:18 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

What happens when a child you’ve loved and raised turns against you? Meet families who are afraid for their lives because their children are angry and incredibly violent. Thirteen-year-old Nick is so out of control, he has used an ax to destroy his home, often chokes his little brother, and has threatened friends and family members with a knife! His aunt, Tonya, fears for the family's safety so much that she calls every morning just to make sure her sister is still alive. Dr. Phil informs Nick's parents, Greg and Trisha, that they have a tough decision to make. Then, Laurie says her 14-year-old daughter, Mariah, hates her so much that she feels Mariah is capable of killing her. They get in knock-down, drag-out fights at least twice a week that don't end until Mariah is physically pulled off her mother by her stepfather. Laurie's husband, Don, is ready to call it quits because he can't deal with his stepdaughter's violent and rebellious behavior. What is behind Mariah’s anger? Talk about the show here.

 

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April 28, 2006, 7:26 pm CDT

A Reply

Quote From: verbek

Very good point.   Didn't think of that but now that you mention it:  Where were the children? 

I would like to see these children by themselves and let them speak. 

  

Possibly, that is an idea for another show? Say in a year when the whole family (Lord knows that some of these parents themselves needed counseling and soul searching) has had family advice. 

  

I would like to hear from the kids.   

Hi Verbek   

   

  Thank You! I dont get to many good points. Thats probably the first and probably the last for me..   

   

 Hopefully we'll see this family again, but in better frame of mind.........  

 
April 29, 2006, 8:55 am CDT

What do you do?

Quote From: jenoc99

While watching today's show, I was reminded of my brother's childhood. He is ten years younger than me, and I think my parents just looked the other way when he broke the rules, and they just listened to and accepted his blatent lies because it was easier than dealing with the hard truth. I was only 12, and I was forced to watch him every day after school while my parents went out doing their own "thing." Unfortunatly, for many years, I felt guilty because of his behavior; maybe if I had done something differently, he would be different. Now, I know that it wasn't my fault, I am not his parent. I also moved out of the home at age 16 because he was such a terror, I couldnt stand living in the same house with him, and he was only 6 years old at that time!

When he went to school, he was constantly expelled, kept after school for dicipline, different punishments- but he just kept doing whatever he wanted. My mother's response when he wouldn't do his homework: "That should be done at school, when he's home, he shouldn't have to do school work." It was always, always someone else's fault! Any rules that applied to the world didn't apply to him. He could tell my mother that the sky was red and she would say, "oh i know honey"... Ugh! When he was a minor, she could have made him go to counceling, anger managment, she could have taken him to a dr. and had him diagnosed- because something is wrong, but now its out of her hands, he's an adult, and he's a criminal.

Now he is 27 and dating 17 and 18 year old girls. He has been in and out of jail and has a long, long rap sheet. Guess what? My mother still feels sorry for him and believes his lame lies. Its sick!

Parents, wake up! Take action now. Don't worry about what you think people might think or say about you and your parenting skills, who cares! This is your child's life.

Your story is my story. My brother is eight years younger than me(him being 12 and Im 20). He had always been a handfull as a child and in kindergarden was diagnosed with ADHD. My parents soon became apathetic as his behavior grew worse. Recently they added Asperger's syndrome onto his ADHD label. I moved out of the house at 17 because be threatened my life multiple times as well as putting poisen in my food . .and my parents continued to veiw it as a "stage" that he would eventually grow out of. Virtually every word out of his mouth is a lie and he gets more and more defiant everyday. . He was also threatening suicide and cutting himself. I guess a couple years back my parents realized that something was definatly wrong and have started trying to "fix" him. They have taken him to every doctor in the area and he also participates in individual and group therapy but nothing seems to help. Hes in trouble at school EVERY day and is failing almost all his classes. His latest stunt was to light the backyard on fire(we live in texas and at that time there was a huge burn ban in effect for our area so the flames spread rapidly)luckily they were able to put it out before it reached the house. My parents have tried everything. Nothing works. What do you do when a child has no empathy. Im so afraid that he is going be in prison before he graduates.What do you do? 
 
April 29, 2006, 3:09 pm CDT

The system doesn't always help

Quote From: daffodill2

I can't believe you would even hesitate to put your child in a residential program.  Speaking as someone who was at one time in an inpatient hospital setting, sometimes parental distance is required for growth and healing.  A residential program is far from what the worst-case scenario could be.  There could be no sane reasoning behind wanting to keep your child in your home as he is.   I can't even imagine the damage this is doing to the innocent by-standers, not to mention ultimately to society.  One day you will be gone and this child will be left to exist in society on his own.  Jeffrey Dahmer started out by practicing on animals.  There was no value for any life form.  If you continue to allow your child to behave in such ways, please, please consider the effects on others.  Please think about the innocent people and animals.  Even if you cannot control your child, there are ways in which you can exert control.  There should be no pets in your home.  It is a liability waiting to happen.  He may not have broken the dogs' bones yet, but that doesn't mean it won't happen, and where is the sense it waiting for it to happen.  And while the dogs' bones have not been broken, this isn't exactly a strong defense.  I can only imagine how this child has tortured the dog.   I almost think an animal would be better off on its own or put to sleep then forced to exist in such a hostile househould.  The dog should not be subjected to such a miserable life he/she didn't choose.  I really wish you would consider finding the animal a different home or surrendering the animal to a rescue group.  I think any fate other than the current would be better.  The animal will(if it hasn't already done so) develop so many behavioral problems that it may not be possible for it to remain docile.  It may ultimately have to be put to sleep because it will start expressing the hostility it feels in the current environment.   

There are no residential programs that fit for someone with both Bipolar and Aspergers syndrome aspects.  You try one - that one says "Oh, we don;t take the violent kids" then another "oh, we don;t take autistic kids" you get so much of a run around your head spins. To top it off, there's supposedly no such thing as "voluntary" inpatient evaluations for 9-10 year olds with this set of issues.  Why???  

   

As a parent of a special needs child I've taken my case to countless "professionals" only to be told in no uncertain terms that my son doesn't fit the qualifications for help.  (sometimes they even tell HIM to his face, despite my request that they not do that.)  Okay - so how long until he seriously hurts someone?  I can't always be with him 24/7, especially not at school.  I've contacted every therapist/psychiatrist in the county only one Pscyhiatrist would even see him!  Most won't even return a call or have "not accepting new patients" right on their voicemails.  Can I sue the "gatekeepers" for malpractice if he does hurt someone eventually???  It's not always the parents who are docile - I've even investigated the possibility of turning him over to the CPS myself but I refuse to have a criminal conviction (I've been told that I'll be charged with abandonment) so I'm stuck.    

   

Please remember that there does exist a population of parents who are actively seeking treatment for their children, only to be told there's no way they can get the help obviously needed!  

~CharmedMom  

 
April 30, 2006, 10:56 pm CDT

Just a note

Quote From: maribella

As a teacher and mother, I can't even describe how awful this was to watch.  I have taught children like this and I have seen the damage they can do to themselves,  and to others.  While I am thrilled this boy, Nick,  is getting the help that he desperately needs, I can't help but feel so worried and sad for the brother in the family and that poor dog that are being abused.  It has been MY personal experience, that the parents are a HUGE factor in how this boy has learned how to behave in this family dynamic.  I was very surprised that Dr. Phil was so easy on them.  I know he didn't want to demonize the parents and that they tried their best with the information they had at the time, but to keep that child in the same house as the other brother and the family pet is nothing short of fostering Nick's abuse of his brother and the dog.  I can only imagine what this child is like in a classroom environment.  It's one thing if the mother and father don't mind this child's aggression towards them, but what about the countless other children and/or animals that are the target of this poor boy's anger.  I would be willing to bet that their have been PLENTY of teachers and/or other parents who have had run-ins with this child and his parents.  When a teacher has to spend his/her entire day disciplining a child, it is at the expense of the other children in the class.  Very unfortunate indeed.  Maybe these outbursts were isolated at home?  I would be VERY interested in hearing what his teachers, the schools and other parents have witnessed from this child and his parents. 

I just wanted to give you a little bit of a different perspective.  I am a Mother of a healthy little boy and have a very healthy marriage and outlook on life.  I'll agree that this was a difficult show to watch; however, having been the sibling of someone with violent tendancies - I could describe similar horrors growing up - I have to say that the parents ARE NOT to blame and the younger  brother will be okay with the proper guidance and support.  When you have an ill/undiagnosed child most parents will do what they can for that child.  My brother got help because my mother met with his teachers and he was actually yanked from our home by the State for diagnosis and treatment.  Not only did he receive help, the other 4 siblings received help.  

  

I must add that until this happened my parents were seeking counseling and working with the schools but there was no change/answers.  We, as viewers do not know what steps were or were not taken to help this boy out.  We only watch a segment and the family has been dealing with this issue for years.  Being a teacher, I'm sure it is difficult to deal with an unruly child (there are two teachers in my family and my grandmother's are retired teachers) so I understand that perspective; however, there are children that are unruly because of something lacking in their life and there are children that are unruly for having something wrong.  The parents need support, not judgement.  My parents did not know my brother was ill and even though the family was put through a living nightmare I have no blame to cast on them and no ill feeling over the way everything was conducted.  

  

I truly feel for the family.  They need prayers now.  It was more difficult for our family to lose our family member (even though it was for ours and his own good) than it was to deal with the illness.    

  

I just wanted you to know a personal side of a similar story... Take care!  

  

PS: THANK YOU for all that you do with educating and supporting our youth!!! 

 
April 30, 2006, 11:33 pm CDT

04/17 Dangerous Kids

Quote From: daffodill2

I can't believe you would even hesitate to put your child in a residential program.  Speaking as someone who was at one time in an inpatient hospital setting, sometimes parental distance is required for growth and healing.  A residential program is far from what the worst-case scenario could be.  There could be no sane reasoning behind wanting to keep your child in your home as he is.   I can't even imagine the damage this is doing to the innocent by-standers, not to mention ultimately to society.  One day you will be gone and this child will be left to exist in society on his own.  Jeffrey Dahmer started out by practicing on animals.  There was no value for any life form.  If you continue to allow your child to behave in such ways, please, please consider the effects on others.  Please think about the innocent people and animals.  Even if you cannot control your child, there are ways in which you can exert control.  There should be no pets in your home.  It is a liability waiting to happen.  He may not have broken the dogs' bones yet, but that doesn't mean it won't happen, and where is the sense it waiting for it to happen.  And while the dogs' bones have not been broken, this isn't exactly a strong defense.  I can only imagine how this child has tortured the dog.   I almost think an animal would be better off on its own or put to sleep then forced to exist in such a hostile househould.  The dog should not be subjected to such a miserable life he/she didn't choose.  I really wish you would consider finding the animal a different home or surrendering the animal to a rescue group.  I think any fate other than the current would be better.  The animal will(if it hasn't already done so) develop so many behavioral problems that it may not be possible for it to remain docile.  It may ultimately have to be put to sleep because it will start expressing the hostility it feels in the current environment.   

It is different to be in the program then it is to place a family member in a residential program.  I speak from a place of knowledge and have to say that the judgements made on the parents is not justified and is very sad.   

  

I could describe similar horrors growing up -  and not only have I turned out well, the other 4 siblings (including the sick one) have all turned out very well and are leading healthy lives.  My brother had to leave our home for treatment and diagnosis and the family survived with and without the horrors we dealt with.  I must also say that my brother who is ill is functioning on his own - holding a job, living on his own and leading a happy life. 

  

We also had pets and they NEVER had to be put to sleep for "expressing the hostility it feels".  Our dogs, rabbits, guinnea pigs and hampsters survived the rages and never harmed any of the family members! 

  

I truly feel for the family.  They need prayers now.  It was more difficult for our family to lose our family member (even though it was for ours and his own good) than it was to deal with the illness.   Who are we to judge the parents for their decisions when we don't know everything that went on behind closed doors.  The hesitation that the family felt is legitimate and not being in their shoes WE as viewer have no right to judge. 

 
May 23, 2006, 8:04 am CDT

04/17 Dangerous Kids

WWASP are wonderful program.  My son was at the Academy at Ivy Ridge for 16 months.  It was the hardest thing I ever did.  It was also the best thing I ever did.  He had a tremoundous amount of anger.  He swore at us and did what he wanted when he wanted.  He would physically attack my husband,  He took off after an altercation with his father and went to a friends house and told her his father hit him.  She called the cops and we had to go to court and have DSS investegate our home.  Dss found no abuse and the judge dropped the case however told my husband to never touch him.  Well the kid heard this and thought I can do what ever they can't do nothing.  He threatened to kill the two of all the time.  He had been kicked out of one school and was on the verge of getting kicked out of another.  He was drinking and doing drugs.  He graduated from the Academy of Ivy Ridge in August of 2006, we've had our ups and downs however nothing like before.  He is now an average teen instead of an out of control teen.  With the WWASP program my son would have never finished High School., I don't even know if he would be alive today as he was into many dangerous drugs.  This program saved not only our son but our whole family.   Most of the kids my son had hung out with dropped out of high school, they bounce from one job to another with no future goals.  My son has goals and knows what he wants to create with his life.  Before Tommy was sent to the program he was a terrioist.  He terroized our home, and school.  Now he is a complete gentleman.  I can't tell you how good this program is.  If you have an out-of-control teen they can help you.
 
September 20, 2006, 2:21 pm CDT

Tasha web stie

Dr Phil please don't go this low in people that you place on your show... When you

go onto a web site and post you are warned of what can happen you take your chances

if you don't want to take a chance then don't post on web sites.  WE ARE TOLD THIS
ALL THE TIME......THE WEB CAN BE DEADLY

 
June 6, 2007, 7:30 pm CDT

Coping with Loss and being single

Quote From: vpwl1957

Aside from the problems with the daughter, my concern is for the stepfather in the second story.  Dr. Phil was right not to assume what he might need.  No one really understands the grief of losing a child, except for another parent who has lost their child.  Our son died suddently from an aortic aneurysm at the age of 22.  He died in the time I walked out to the car and back into his apartment, just less than 30 minutes after visiting the doctor.  My heart has never hurt like it did that day after his death was confirmed.  We have been lucky enough to have friends recommend some excellent books that talk about the grief.  By far the best is "When there are no words" by Charlie Walton. He is a father who tragically lost sons just a few years younger than your guest's and our son.  I would strongly recommend this book as it is from the viewpoint from someone who understands.  A grief counselor said that often times we wait for things to get back to "normal", but that will never happen.  We need to create our "new normal".  One last comment, from our grief counselor.  She said that normal grief (as if there is such a thing) is about 2 years when it is someone older, and/or someone ill, etc.  When it is a child and is sudden like we and the stepfather have experienced, we cannot expect to "get over it" in a year, or two years, etc..  His wife would benefit from some research, reading, or counseling also so she can try to understand what he is going through.  He needs her now more than ever.  My husband and I often find that when one is having a bad day (which we still do after 18 months), then the other usually is a stronger person on that day.  Luckily we don't both seem to have bad days at the same time.
 I am single and have freinds and groups to talk to but I miss my mother so much
i depend on my aunts too much,I go outside the family
one relative said that she had a dream that sh saw my mother looking over a balcony and she said that she was waiting for me.
Grief is so said and ahrd,I miss her love and caring,life is empty without her. Life will never be normal again.
What do you think of the dream ?
 
June 25, 2007, 12:25 pm CDT

04/17 Dangerous Kids

Quote From: lotofshoes

I have lived it thats why I posted....my 13 year old son chased his brother and sister around with a knife ....used a broom to go after them once...I didn't call the Police to do MY JOB....I handled it myself...and when we got to the point were he was not able to be controlled i put him out of the house with some one who could!!!!...His Father who is bigger that he and stronger and he feared him...He is now a very Loving,Smart ,Gifted Man @ 26... I was not going to stand by and watch him abuse his little sister & Brother because I couldn't or he couldn't control himself!!!! You have Get Control of them before they get to and age when Hormones kick in..Thats when he turned...and  i want you to know Beating a kid is not the answer we didn't beat him....However at times I wanted to....we as parents need to really talk and understand why they are doing what they are doing ...my son wanted attention being the oldest he felt the need to be in charge he was very Intelligent...In gifted  programs but lacked Impulse control ...what I am seeing is not uncommon in very Intelligent Kids ...He was confused and angry at the whole world...but didn't seem to have a lot of common sense???...He's still a little like that now ...lol...I just wanted to let you know there were some of us who have been there and are now in great relationships with our adult Children...I hope and Pray you will be able to hang in there and know WE DO CARE...Really care thats why people post....  

Annette...  

god bless you Annatte when i read your post tears came to my eyes you could not had put it any better  i have been living that same life with my 10 yr old son for about 4 or 5 years but the first of last lear alot changed in our lifes the years before i felt life with my son was easier if i numb with pain pills then i got my self clean and the true hell started it was a change in mine and my kids life my son wasn't ready for i was no longer the mom numb on pills anymore i was trying to take back control of our life and he fought it hard from feb to march the police was called on him 13 times for his voilent rages daily  when things got so violent  where i couldn't control him then one day he woke up sweet and loving everything was fine then within one sec my loving baby was gone it was like the devil took over him the blank look on his face his mind going 100 miles per hour he couldn't keep his thoughts straight he was so angry and didn't know what he was angry at he trashed my parents house (so far i have payed out over $2,000.00 ti repair the damages to my parents home and there is still more to fix) knocked over tables throwing anything he could get his hands on cussing hit puching spitting bitting at anyone that came near him my mother is disable do to a back surgery gone wrong he would go after her i had her to lock herself in the bedroom for her safey my other children trying to help me catch him and restrain him intill the police got there when they  got to the house and seen what was going on  they said no more they called the da in our county he said arrest him for domestic violence to watch them handcuff my baby at 9 yrs old and drag him out to there car killed me as a mother i had never felt so much pain to here him cry mommy please don't let them talke me after that he was arrested 3 more times i was aboult to lose my job for having to leave and go to the school all the time over the dumbest stuff they knew my son was on meds for bipolar and ocd and as they did with others kids at there school with mental disorder they pushed and pushed to get them in a nother school and not have to deal with them they like to have that we have perfect kids emige so it got worse with all the stuff going on in school he had more and more rages night terrors he was getting more and more obsessed about the smallest thing and  also that someone was going to harm him or harm me he started see things again he felt worthless he was convenced everone hated him and wanted him dead they child would shower 10 to 12 times a day even get up in the middle of the night to take a shower and try to wash the bad off of him it was living hell and i got the worse of it he blamed me for making him go back to this school everyday his dr and counsler and case mang. at the mental health center was looking for a resedential home for him be for things go to bad and he really harmed himself or us.  so in dec they expelled him for 3 mths this was a heaven sent after about a month to month in a half of weeking home counsling ( he has at the point he didn't leave the house he was even scared his counsler of 4 yrs was out to get him so she came to the house we took it very slow with him) he started feeling safe again sleeping threw the night we started going to support groups he was go aslong as i was there with him and then started a priviate school in march (payed for threw his public school) my mom went everyday with him for a month staring at 1 hour a  day up to the last days of  school for the year doing three hours and a report card with straight a's that he is so proud of and are plans for next year was to send him back to this priviate school but i was informed the begining of the month his public school will no longer pay for it the said he has to come back there to there school because of the cost i told them over my dead body i will never put my son threw that again no other public schools around us has room for open enrollment student so i am in a battle again with the school my son knows nothing about this he thinks everything is ok for the next school year and as always i have those people as you was refuring to that thinks  they know the anwers if i would get him off the meds he wouldn't act like that ( we are slowing backing off his med as needed our goal is no rages in one year we will work on no meds at all) or like his birth father that hasn't seen him in 6 yrs says he wouldn't act that way with me he needs one week with me and no meds i will straighten him out if you would beat his ass a good one he would stop that crap spanking him doesn;t take the disorder away it makes it worse i would love these people that think they have all the answer live one week with this or see a child go threw a rage and try to control it i have went threw hell and back with him i and i pray he keeps on this road he is on now we have had 2 rages in 7 mnths conpared to weekly sometimes daily but that ones he has had was short we have learned new tecnects is group and he may not at first use them but as i restain him i talk camly and that god lord knows that hard to do as your being cussed at being called all kinds of names being spit on right in your face but i do my best i keep talking to him telling him to calm down take deep breaths and take about playing in the yard with his aunts dogs ( i use this same thing when he is seeing things or after night terrors ) and after about 20 mins or so he is calm and he lays there still is can be and then he comes out of it and is my sweet baby again most of the time he doesn't remember what happen he will ask what happen to this or how did that get broke and we say you did it . so please people don't judge us intill you have lived it
 
December 22, 2007, 9:50 pm CST

autism

Last week, Dr. Phil did a show on Autism. Autistic chidren are not dangerous or violent by choice. Since they cannot express what is inside their head, they become frustrated. Yes the sickest person in the house controls the house and I know. My 23 year old adult autistic child lives with his parents and 17 year old brother. His 27 year old sister teaches special ed in Hawaii. Dr. Phil, you had parents on this show that need to get out of the why me stage.
Since I was a member of the grow out of its, another show that would benefit
viewers is the one with grown autistic children of how we coped when they were younger and how we are managing the situation now. Noone stays the same age forever chronologically. In the case of my son, he is one age and physically and emotionally he is another. Please heed my post and invite me to be a guest for another perspective on this issue. Thank you. Trudie R. Lehman
 
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