Topic : 04/17 Dangerous Kids

These types of behaviors generally don't happen overnight. Was there anything done all the way along to improve the situation? I haven't seen the show yet so I don't know the full details.  It sounds like these kids need serious, probably inpatient, counseling.

 

Steph

You people maybe out of control.  Unless your child is diagonsosed with a mental or chemical disorder then you've made a huge mistake and for got to hit his ass in early childhood to instill healthy fear in him.  What is healty fear?  It;s like not wanting to dissapoint God.  It would hurt you or me to do something that we know would be displeasing to God  right?  Well that is healty fear and we should not want to dissapoint our parents as well.  Why? because we love them so much that it would hurt them.  Healty fear is also not doing stupid stuff that will harm us. 

 

 

I experienced just such a child.  Today she is a wonderful, caring, responsible adult.  She manages a group home and is responsible for the staff and the mentally and physically handicapped children in the home.  She is truly suited to her job - it is her calling and she loves those kids as if they were her own.  She acts as their advocate, their Mom, their caregiver, and their defender.  She sees to their wellbeing both mentally and physically taking them out into the community daily for interaction and growth.  At one time, I despaired of her ever functioning as an adult in the real world.  She was violent.  I have been hit over the head with a pair of shoes thrown at me in a store when she didn't get her way.  I have been kicked, bitten, hitten, scratched and the clothes torn off my back when she was upset over things.  II've been threatened with a knife.  've been yelled at and cursed until I felt despair most of the time and did not want to go home after work to face what awaited me.  I allowed her to take over the basement of the house for a sitting room and bedroom when she was as young as 12 just so I didn't have to wake her in the morning and deal with her morning tantrums.  She awoke every day in tears and ready to battle the world.  She hated me and everything around her.  We went to family counselling and I was told she was simply spoiled.  I went to personal counselling and was told I has simply a bad mother.  I took parenting classes and learned I knew all the answers and I knew how to handle ever situation until my emotions were involved and at that point, it all went out the window.  I got so I yelled back and today we still have to work on our communication as we built up so many defenses around each other, we still shy away from taking things at face value and often put the wrong interpretation on things said or done.  At one point, I even contacted the Children's Aid Society for help with her but because I was the one in danger and not her, they would do nothing to help me.  I don't know what turned her around.  She got into trouble with the law by stealing.  I was devastated.  I stuck by her offering her emotion and financial support  and maybe she realized I would always be there for her - her dad was not.  I thank the Lord every day for how wonderful she is now.  I pray for all you in a similar situation.  L

Topics like this bring people like you out of the woodwork.  The "spare the rod spoil the child"  we're not spanking our kids enough crowd.  Often these same people claim to be speaking for God implying that God wants us to spank our children.  Society would be fabulous if we brought back to the good old days of spanking, paddling & hitting children with switches.  This IS violence & violence begets violence.  We don't teach a child that violence is wrong by modeling violence.  Spanking is a euphemism for hitting.  Just as it would NOT be okay for your boss to spank you it is NOT okay for you to spank any other human being, including your child. 

  I AM ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT APPEARED ON THIS SHOW.

JUST FOR THE RECORD, HERE IN CANADA OUR LAWS ARE IF YOU HIT A CHILD THEN YOU ARE CHARGED WITH CHILD ABUSE. WHEN YOUR CHILD LEAVES HOME AT 14 YRS OLD THE POLICE WILL NOT GET INVOLVED AND THEY WILL NOT MAKE THE CHILD GO HOME.

HERE IN CANADA OUR LAWS HAVE TAKEN AWAY OUR CONTROL OF OUR CHILDREN BUT YET IF THEY DO SOMETHING THAT IS AGAINST THE LAW THEN WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM. GO FIGURE!! AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED, IF A CHILD RUNS AWAY BEFORE THE AGE OF 16 THEN THEY SHOULD BE BROUGHT BACK TO THE HOME IMMEDIATELY. BUT NO!!! OUR RIDICULOUS LAWS DON'T DO THAT.

THAT IS ONE TOOL THAT MY CHILD USES AGAINST ME BECAUSE SHE HAS SAID IF YOU TOUCH ME THEN I WILL CALL THE POLICE! OH AND YOU CANT MAKE ME COME HOME BECAUSE IM 14!

BUT LETS FACE IT, THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS, PHYSICAL VIOLENCE IS NOT THE ANSWER!

I HAVE 2 OTHER CHILDREN WHO ARE PERFECTLY WELL BEHAVED AND RESPECTFUL 

What I like to know is, what starts this kind of behavior of the kids that the parents raise? because to quote someone that posted a message "this doesn't happen over night" is exactly right on the topic. I mean it had to start somewhere, did the parents do something or is it something they didn't do? or is the kid depressed, lonely, or does he/she snaps for no reason, this list goes on and on and on. You really don't know what's inside them. You can't search their brain's, you just help the best way you can.

I may be going out on a limb here and maybe will reamed six ways to Sunday.  But, I think a lot of people could benefit from watching Cesar Millan on "Dog Whisperer".  I know, I KNOW that dogs are not people and people are not dogs but his understanding of psychology seems to transcend those boundaries. 

 

Basics:

- Establish yourself as the leader with a "calm assertive" behavior rather than a nervous, aggressive energy which just may bounce of the child and feedback to you from the child as nervous aggressive energy in tumultuous moments

- Set rules, boundaries and limitations

- Exercise (in the case of children maybe activity), discipline and then affection

 

This guy has taken aggressive and out of control, vicious animals and totally rehabilitated them.  I think his psychology has some merit in the people (parent/child) arena and it may take a while to "get it".  But, for what it's worth . . . watch the show.  "Dog Whisperer".   You need to watch it more than once.  I was not impressed with the first two or three times. 

I agree it does not happen overnight.  Unless there's head trauma, seriously, this is a learned behavior.  As for the spanking?  It works when they're little to get their attention but at 14, LLCOOLT yes, it is probably extreme at that age.  I feel for you but it had to have started a long time ago as it has to have happened for all the kids on the show.  I'm not an expert and I'll never write a book on parenting but I haven't had any problems with my kids.  Knock on wood!!  But we're open with all our kids, they know there are consequences to all their actions.  You can't "talk" to a 2 year old on the hows and whys an oven is dangerous or going to close to the edge of the street can mean being squished by a car. But after a couple of "no"s being ignored a swat on the butt gets major attention.  Then talking, timeouts and privileges revoked as they get older puts everything in perspective.  But love is the basis for it all.  Our kids fight, like all kids.  Cats and Dogs, as the saying goes!  But not everyday.  Tempers flare like normal families, we've just gotten creative.  When our "twins" (boy/girl") fight we've written down the "names" they've called each other and when tempers cooled down we had them read it to each other.  Let me tell you it works.  When you're not mad and you have to read aloud all the mean things you yelled at the table with the whole family watching it doesn't make you feel like a winner.  The kids realized how hurtful they were and are truly sorry and especially embarrassed for acting "dumb".  It ends up in a laughfest because the names were really made up on the spot. We haven't done that in a long time because they haven't wanted to "read" to the family.  When they were younger and they liked to "hit" each other, we taped they're arms together.  The had to work together with 3 arms.  They cried and whined but they stopped fighting and there was no more hitting!  You can't run when you're victim is within arms reach.  Is this extreme to you?  It wasn't done maliciously and we warned them. NO One was hurt and it showed them that family will always be there.  Discipline can be funny just as long it proves that you love them over and over and no matter what.  Even when they were mad at us we could make them smile (which made them madder).  We even had them watch Mom and Dad act out one of their fighting scenes to prove how dumb the subject matter was.  It's a lot of work but it does work.  Kids are an investment.  If you can't handle the ups and downs don't trade the chromosones!!

My guess is these kids are suffering from some kind of mental illness not a lack of physical abuse by their parents.

 

 

You can create monsters if all you do it whack your kid every time then get out of line.  Discipline happens when people are calm not when they are angry.  Discipline requires the child to take responsibility for their actions.  When you hit your kids you’re taking the responsibility.  Discipline takes time and follow through.  Most parents don't want to take the time to use discipline so the whack the kid walk away and the kid learns and gains nothing.  Discipline requires a parent to empower their kids to do it right the next time.  It uplifts not degrades.  If you use fear and shame to get your kids to behave you are lazy and taking the easy way out.  These are short term solutions and don't create people that are driven to do their best all the time.  You can be a total authoritarian and never discipline your kids.  If you need to whack your kids to get them to behave you are doing something very wrong.  Discipline is teaching self control and making good choices out of control frustrated parents are not good teachers.

 

Hi Groovy, it's Susanpear.

 

How are you?  I'm good.  Upon reading your response to Busterss, I feel led to comment.  I am torn between the two sides "Spare the rod, spoil the child" and "Violence begets violence".  With all due respect to you, I would like to share something.  I realize you may not be a Christian, so I don't mean to offend you in any way.

 

I attended our Good Friday service.  The subject of  Jesus' death started out as "why would a Father allow this to happen to His Son?"  Jesus was obedient unto death on the cross.  Of course He is God's Son and created solely for our redemption.  No other person is born for that purpose, of course, which includes children of the past and today.  The rest of us are born with a sinful nature.  Jesus was sinless.  He made the perfect sacrifice for our sins, and He is alive again so we can triumph over death.  God does not want us to live in fear or be inconsiderate, spoiled brats  But He does expect a healthy respect in our attitude toward Him and others.  There is a balance that needs to be achieved here.

 

Now,  I am NOT advocating violence at all!  The spanking issue is controversial, I agree.  There are many clever ways to discipline our children.  Sometimes, parents like me do not have anyone to talk to or get advise from in the heat of the moment.  Since becoming a mom in 1988, I saw that many kids are too aggresive, spoiled, contradictory, interruptive and show poor manners.  I did employ spanks when they were very young after they were warned first.  I did not do it the second they acted up or disobeyed.  I agree that Busterss came across more extreme.  However, he does have a point.  Kids take over and become little tyrants if we stay passive.  My girls were very good at the baby and elementary school age.  I knew the physical discipline had to stop AFTER THEY WERE OLDER, and learn to impose more effective consequences instead.  It's about getting a grip on the children while they are very young.  Sometimes spanking backfires and the effects depend upon the temper of the parent employing it.  I remember how much more respectful kids were to their parents when I was a kid.  Kids did fear their parents more, but the parents also showered them with love when they were behaving respectfully.   A firm hand is needed for kids of today.  That does not necessarily mean spanking, but somehow the children need to know that the parent is to be obeyed - not disrepected!

 

Thanks for listening.  Hope you are healthy and happy. Susan