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Topic : 08/02 "I Love Myself!"

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Created on : Thursday, April 13, 2006, 01:18:17 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 04/20/06) Do you know someone who craves attention so badly that he or she will do anything to get it? One family believes their loved one is a master manipulator and her ways are causing a major conflict in the household. Hilary claims she wouldn’t shed a tear if her stepdaughter, Shannon, died tomorrow. She calls Shannon a narcissist and says she will lie, fight and cuss just to be noticed. Shannon feels like a scapegoat, and thinks her stepmother is simply out to get her. When Shannon was younger, her biological mom died, and now she believes Hilary has turned her father and sister against her. Is Shannon’s behavior all an act, or do her father and stepmother need to change how they deal with her? Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

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August 10, 2006, 10:00 am PDT

A child can tell when they don't light up someone's life

Quote From: caffee1

 I  stopped posting on this board shortly after the firstviewing of the show- for those of you who are still posting you know myexperiences with a step daughter who is out of control.
I think we all have to accept  that there are problems in familiesthat some of you will never be able to understand- everyone has theirown "take" of the show. Those of us who are the parent/stepparentdealing wiht mental illness and defiant behaviors have one opinion andthe rest another opinion.
This does not make the parent/stepparent a bad person or the "cause" ofthe behavior- yes genetics plays a big role- yes environment plays abigs role- But  even when someone is raised with boundaries andsecurity and all the love in the world it cannot change was isalready  there.
So when we get to the point  to come to dr phil or send them to aplace like the casa and say I need help- things must be pretty bad- itdoesn't mean that there is no love, it doesn't mean that we don't havethe kids best interest in mind- it means we don't know what else to do,we need help to help them. B/c nothing else we have done has worked. Itis hard to parent in any situation- adding mental illness and behvioralissues makes it close to impossible.  I know from the past thatmany of you feel shannon was just  being victimized on the show byher family- I see it from the other side- one can wear many  hatsand appear very different a person when it is convenient. Which issimilar to my situation- my step daughter is the most manipulativeperson anyone  has ever met. And for those of you who remember mefrom the first airing of the show- this situation has only gottenworse. My step daughter no longer lives here, my husband told her shehad to leave, that was months ago.This week She tried to break into my house,while my babysitter was here with  my kids- when she realized they were here she tried harder to get in- swearing threatening. I raced home and had to call the police to remove her after she refused to leave and threatened to "bash my face in"- She then continued to swear at the cops and was out of control- She DID NOT learn this behavior from us. She wasn't raised to act as a common criminal or to swear and spit at the cops. It was an embarassing and humiliating experience that made me want to vomit- I have never called the police for anything in my life.
The story she tells- is quite different from the truth- she turns onthe charm- and forget it.. I only wish that we had had the resources tosend her to one of those places when she was a minor- now I have anervous stomach and am always looking over my shoulder- it is not agreat feeling.
So give some of us some slack- we don't pretend to have made all of the right decisions but did the best we could.

Caffee, Imagine something here. Do you have biological children?

 

If something happened to you, how would you want them treated by a stepparent. Would you want them to be resented by the step mother?  Are your children your world? If they are, they know they are loved and wanted.

 

If you could not be there to make them feel loved and wanted, would a step mother do that?

 

I used to listen to step mothers, at work, complaining about their stepchildren. I often pointed out that their step children weren't doing any worse that my biological children.

 

It is difficult to admit that you resent that child and easier to blame the child by noticing every little thing the child does and being hypercritical.

 

When someone, we love, dies; we run a gamut of emotions. One of them is anger. The loss is too great for a child to bear alone. How would your children cope? Would you hope your husband would be there for them emotionally? Or would he be seeking someone else to warm his bed and forget the childrens' needs?

 

A child knows when they don't light up someone's life and they may respond negatively.

 
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August 10, 2006, 2:37 pm PDT

Placing Blame

Quote From: somepeople101

i can't imagine why she would want to break into "your" house - maybe because it used to be hers and she just wants her family to actually want her??? 

This is crazy folks.  Blaming the parents entirely on children's behavior is too black and white.  If we were attached to the hip with our children, then maybe you zealots  might just have a just cause.  But, the reason we each have minds is so that we can think on our own.  Parents don't control everything their children do or think.  Their peers have more control than the parents sometimes.  I would no more blame any of you for your children getting into trouble or having a personality disorder or behavioral problem than I would blame myself for my kids outlandish behavior.  Why?  Because it doesn't contribute anything positive to relationships;  it's ridiculous finger pointing and it throws guilt on the parents which produces more spoiled selfish kids because of overindulgence.  If, as parents, we had the kind of control that prevents our kids from bad behavior, we'd have little robots running around without the ability to think for themselves.   (Making positive age appropriate decisions for them is one thing but controlling their every behavior is another.)  Our job is to teach them appropriate behavior.  If THEY decide they don't want to learn and act decently DESPITE appropriate parenting, then what are we to do?  It becomes a drastic situation in many cases and many of us do drastic things.  Shannon's parents did just that - they sent her to a behavioral school and appeared on national TV.  Those are drastic measures.  Short of throwing themselves off a bridge (if that would have helped their daughter), I think they are heroes.  One would think that many other parents would have kicked her out long ago (after she reached 18).  I know I would and it's called tough love.  My son was smart enough to finally recognize he had a personality (mental) problem, and with proper help he now knows how to control his behavior and we are all much happier. 

 

This new psychology that states that parents are to blame for all of their children's behavior is nonsense, when some children are simply born with a loose wire .  Does that mean we're supposed to let them run havoc in our homes and the rest of the family members are supposed to put up with it "unconditionally"?  I'm not a step parent and the connotations we label them with are horrendous and uncalled for, for the most part.  I love my son, but not his old behavior.  I have "conditional" love and my conditions are simple:  respect for each other, peace and harmony in the house, chore contributions, manners, and most of all love.  My son wasn't meeting those conditions.  Doesn't mean I didn't love him.  Our last resort was to send him to a behavioral school and it was the best decision we made, after trying everything else.   Yes, we loved him enough to do that for him.  And, we loved ourselves enough to say, "We don't deserve live in these conditions." 

 

I'm glad my son was able to open his eyes and see that his behavior was like a cancer on all of us and to be able to change it.  I'm sure glad we didn't have to resort to going on this show  hoping that Dr. Phil would help us and then seeing what he did to those parents.  In my opinion, he did more harm to that family than Shannon ever did.

 
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August 10, 2006, 4:44 pm PDT

Different situations are different

Quote From: somepeople101

are you sure your daughter knows your love is solid???  if i was your daughter and i just read everything that you wrote about me - i would feel like you just stabbed me ten thousand times in the heart.  i am not in your family - and i understand i am in no place to say whether you are right or wrong - and i don't want to do that.  but being out of the situation and reading what you just wrote - you didn't have one nice thing to say about your daughter.  do you really think she doesn't feel that from you and everyone else in the family?  i don't understand why parents are kicking their children out or asking their children to leave when they start not being good.  How is that ok???  I truly hope I have not offended you - I do not mean to in any way whatsoever.  I just hope you don't give up on your daughter before she sees what she's worth. 
 I don't think you can generalize ; each family and each family dynamic is different.  I felt very sorry for Shannon and her situation. She had to grow up with a heartless and self-centered step-mother, and a distant father,  all  after losing her own mother;  this is  fact, regardless of Shannon's share of   "blame"  in the matter.  Her step-mother 's hatred of Shannon  is  bone-chilling, and her father's willingness to look the other way all  these years is heart-wrenching and pathetic.  I'm surprised  Shannon hasn't escaped into a life of drugs and alcohol !!

As  for the other situation, this appears to be merely a failure in  parenting,  and  of immaturity on the part of the parents.  The writer seems exasperated,  but DOES  seem  to love her daughter.  And I'm  sure her daughter knows   this.  She just doesn't have to behave at the moment because she  still has money to spend and  pads to crash !
 
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August 11, 2006, 3:20 am PDT

i think i'm married to a npd person

Quote From: tottie1971

I decided to re post this info. There is a lot of talk about NPD and what it is. Here are the 20 signs of Malignant Narcissism. In oder for a person to even be considered to have NPD they must have at least 9 of these traits.  

  

Again remember again just because someone is mean or selfish or has hurt you does not make them a Narcissist. Some people are just not nice people.  

  

Watching the show I saw a couple of these in Shannon but no where near what it takes to even be given the NPI test. 

  

This test is a series of over 240 questions. You can lie but it will show you lied and why you lied. It can only be given by a trained profesional who knows how to read the test. You also have to think if they are true Narcissist they do not want anyone to know it. They will lie about it as well. "The Dr is a Quack"  

Thankyou for posting this.  I am seeing a counselor right now for problems in my marriage.  She suggested that my husband may have NPD.  I have read your list on NPD and some that I searched for off of google search and my husband has most of the traits for NPD.  He is no longer in my home, we have been apart for 2 months and only married for 7 months.  We have a 6 month old son together and another on the way.  With my whole heart I want my marriage to work but it seems that I have to accept that my husband has this disorder and can not allow him to move back in.  The last straw for me is when he began hitting me.  Is there any help at all for people with this disorder or is it something they live with all their lives???  Hope you check the message board and can reply to my question.  I agree with your statement that some people are just not nice and does not mean they have N and I even said something similar to that to my counselor.  I said can it just be that he is an extremely selfish person and/or very full of pride?  She said that can be the case but asked how many signs did he fit from the list and it definately was 9 or more of the list you provided.  Thanks again for your help.
 
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August 11, 2006, 11:03 am PDT

parenting

NPD or not , I was absolutely sick over the way these parents deal with Shannon. I have never posted about a show before, but this one made me so angry. I think she needs some real guidance, love, and affection that will never come from these two parents. It saddens me. 
 
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August 15, 2006, 1:48 pm PDT

08/02 "I Love Myself!"

Quote From: somepeople101

i can't imagine why she would want to break into "your" house - maybe because it used to be hers and she just wants her family to actually want her??? 
 Actually- this house is a home- a secure place for all of us to live and feel this security....When my step daughter decided that this was a place to disrespect in ways you cannot imagine- when she decided it was a "flop" house to enable her "partying" when she chose to stop respecting any rules and structure we set forth- when she ceased recognizing any boundaries of her behavior when my young children were around, when the turmoil she created put us in a daily hell, when the safety of my children came into question- this ceased to be her "home". She was given multiple chances to live here with our rules- which weren't very strict- she refused to do this- she acted as if she owned  the place and we were all an annoyance to her. Belligerent and rude constantly to all of us.To continue to enable her behavior and her refusal to accept the mental help she needs was placing everyone in ths home at risk. Really do you think scaring my children the was she did is acceptable ? Do you not think that there are boundaries for behavior? Or should life just be a free for all ? I was raised with rules and boundaries- I was taught respect for all people- Maybe part of the problem today is that kids aren't given the boundaries  which were once taught. 
 
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August 15, 2006, 1:52 pm PDT

08/02 "I Love Myself!"

Quote From: mnj1tn

This is crazy folks.  Blaming the parents entirely on children's behavior is too black and white.  If we were attached to the hip with our children, then maybe you zealots  might just have a just cause.  But, the reason we each have minds is so that we can think on our own.  Parents don't control everything their children do or think.  Their peers have more control than the parents sometimes.  I would no more blame any of you for your children getting into trouble or having a personality disorder or behavioral problem than I would blame myself for my kids outlandish behavior.  Why?  Because it doesn't contribute anything positive to relationships;  it's ridiculous finger pointing and it throws guilt on the parents which produces more spoiled selfish kids because of overindulgence.  If, as parents, we had the kind of control that prevents our kids from bad behavior, we'd have little robots running around without the ability to think for themselves.   (Making positive age appropriate decisions for them is one thing but controlling their every behavior is another.)  Our job is to teach them appropriate behavior.  If THEY decide they don't want to learn and act decently DESPITE appropriate parenting, then what are we to do?  It becomes a drastic situation in many cases and many of us do drastic things.  Shannon's parents did just that - they sent her to a behavioral school and appeared on national TV.  Those are drastic measures.  Short of throwing themselves off a bridge (if that would have helped their daughter), I think they are heroes.  One would think that many other parents would have kicked her out long ago (after she reached 18).  I know I would and it's called tough love.  My son was smart enough to finally recognize he had a personality (mental) problem, and with proper help he now knows how to control his behavior and we are all much happier. 

 

This new psychology that states that parents are to blame for all of their children's behavior is nonsense, when some children are simply born with a loose wire .  Does that mean we're supposed to let them run havoc in our homes and the rest of the family members are supposed to put up with it "unconditionally"?  I'm not a step parent and the connotations we label them with are horrendous and uncalled for, for the most part.  I love my son, but not his old behavior.  I have "conditional" love and my conditions are simple:  respect for each other, peace and harmony in the house, chore contributions, manners, and most of all love.  My son wasn't meeting those conditions.  Doesn't mean I didn't love him.  Our last resort was to send him to a behavioral school and it was the best decision we made, after trying everything else.   Yes, we loved him enough to do that for him.  And, we loved ourselves enough to say, "We don't deserve live in these conditions." 

 

I'm glad my son was able to open his eyes and see that his behavior was like a cancer on all of us and to be able to change it.  I'm sure glad we didn't have to resort to going on this show  hoping that Dr. Phil would help us and then seeing what he did to those parents.  In my opinion, he did more harm to that family than Shannon ever did.

 Thank you for this post- everything you said is exactly how I feel.
 
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August 15, 2006, 1:59 pm PDT

08/02 "I Love Myself!"

Quote From: isannah81

I feel for you and your husband and also for Shannon's parents.

 

My daughter would make Shannon appear like she is standing still.

 

My daughter  was raised by a very financially comfortable, loving and caring family of people but as the only child and the only grandchild on BOTH sides, she was incredibly pampered and spoiled (and still is).

 

Her father and I divorced when she was 4 years old and a very loving and caring step-mother was introduced into the family when my daughter was 8 years old.  The stepmother demonized me (based on what my ex-husband told her) and the woman tried to do everything in her power to rectify the problems my ex-husband and daughter presented to her.  Therapists, counsellors and all manner of professionals were introduced by my ex-husband's wife.  My very brilliant daughter learned at a very young age how to manipulate "the system". 

 

My daughter has come to the point where she is almost incapable of relating facts, let alone telling the honest truth and my ex-husband and his wife supported her endlessly.  At first I was the cause of all the "trouble" and we went to countless therapists and other professionals to make me agree with my daughters lies (and my ex-husband's support of her lies - we had a bitter divorce and he would have done anything to hurt me).  All the therapists took the same stance as Dr. Phil did and I did my very best to cooperate (knowing the whole time that my daughter was lying and charming and the child in the situation).  Therapist after therapist told me that I was the adult and had to do whatever the child needed because she was, after all, the child who was "wounded" (and every other term that whatever therapist put into her head).

 

When my daughter was 12 she went to live with my ex-husband and his wife and their life has been in complete turmoil ever since.  It was at the same time that a therapist recommended that my ex-husband and his wife have nothing to do with me and to only have communication through my daughter.  That same therapist recommended that only my ex-husband's wife have any essential communication with me because it was too stressful for my daughter and my ex-husband.  All other therapists' recommendations were ignored but this recommendation was embraced - it lasted about a week and then all communication stopped.

 

Everywhere my daughter goes, she causes complete disruption.  So much so that she has managed to get four completely pampering households to fear her visits.

 

My daughter lacked for nothing.  She got more love, attention and stuff than any child could ever dream of.  The root cause of her behaviour is pampering and now we have a young lady who refuses to get an education (the teachers are all stupid and mean and the other students are even worse), who refuses to get a job (grandmas gave her an incredible amount of money each month and will eventually die leaving her all of their accumulated weath), and whose friends change daily because no normal person can stand her.   

 

The once loving, all caring step-mother who was going to right all wrongs can't stand my daughter and refuses to spend any time at all in her presence.  My ex-husband feels the same way.  One grandmother is in the early stages of senile dementia and almost died from starvation because my daughter took all of her money.  The other is still pampering but has been asked by my ex-husand  to stop.  All aunts and uncles have completely stopped pampering yet my daughter continues to be able to go from household to household just because it would be too embarassing to have her live anywhere but with family.

 

When my daughter visits me, she is allowed to stay until she starts her dispicable behaviour and then she is asked to leave (I make sure that she has a safe place to go to another family member's and I also make sure she gets there).    

 

In the past if my daughter decided that she didn't want to leave, she would involve the police, therapists and even the medical profession to get her way.  In the end it was always determined that my daughter was just manipulating the system but because she was underage, nothing could be done about it except to protect the child from nasty adults who should know better than to pick on a pampered child.   I cannot tell you how embarassing it was for all of us when she did this. 

 

My daughter is now almost a legal  "adult" and because the system knows about her manipulative behaviour I worry that one day she will really need help and they will refuse to take her seriously simply because whe has wasted so much of their time over the last 5 years.  We live in a city and there isn't a therapist in town who will go near my daughter.  She has made fools of the whole lot of them -not because the therapists are fools but because they seriously believed that they were helping a "wounded" child instead of a "pampered" child.  It usually took each therapist about 3 sessions to determine that they weren't equipped to deal with my daughter and to refer her to some other professional.

  

 

My daughter is the prime example of how parents and extended family can ruin a perfectly good child by over-indulging and pampering.  We have created an adult that will have a great deal of difficlulty funcioning in the "normal" world.  We have also created a person that even those who love and cherish the child cannot stand.

 

She has all of the resources in the world at her disposal and is getting old enough to understand that her choice to be the "poor little rich kid" and "victim" of all friends and relations is going to leave her uneducated, unemployed and disliked. 

 

She knows my love is solid, but my acceptance of her manipulating, controlling behaviour is not endless.  

 

In the early years when I still had influence, I did everything I could to teach my daughter to care deeply, share generously and help willingly. 

 

There were many people in my daughter's "village" who also had influence and there are times when I think I didn't fight hard enough against the "village" to stop the pampering.  The parent (or person) who insists that pampering be stopped or limited, is always the parent who appears to be the big green meanie.  I got tired to being the "monster" who kept yelling "the empress has no clothes!!!". 

 

There is a time when a parent has to recognize his or her mistakes and just hope that the lessons their kid has to learn in life aren't too hard. 

 

I still have enormous hope that despite the fact that life's lessons are going to come hard and fast to my daughter, that in the end she will end up being the caring, generous, helpful person  I tried to raise.  

 

This in not to say in any way that Shannon was pampered, or that your step-daughter was pampered.  I am just relating my experience and my hope. 

 

Take care and good luck.

 This sounds so very much like my step daughter as well- master at manipulation with others however we see right through her. She can never "hold it" together around us for long before she is bouncing off of the walls- screaming swearing threats of violence.
I will pray for you and shannond family- no one can know what it is like to live this way unless they have.

 
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August 24, 2006, 8:49 pm PDT

"I love myself"

After watching this show, I was so flabbergasted & frustrated by Dr. Phils actions I HAD to write something on this message board.

 

Sure Shannon is an absolute snot, her tone in her voice when she argues and yells is quite unbearable - and I am sure she throws a tanty when she doesn't get her way. BUT those PARENTS are deplorable - what a bloody horrible stepmother - just like mine was. She sees shannon as a thorn in this family's side and just wants to get rid of it. The father isn't much good either.

 

I was absolutely shocked that Dr. Phil didn't focus on the fact that the parents are completely whacked. He said one sentence that was positive to Shannon and then the wretched stepmom interrupted by adding something negative. WHAT A WITCH!! I think Dr. Phil should have really reprimanted these parents for their immature actions like dumping her in Mexico and leaving her home when they vacation, taking her room away from her - JESUS these parents shouldn't have children.. Sure their daughter has a snotty nature, but she doesn't seem to have trouble with anyone else but THEM. They only wanted to be on Dr. Phil to prove to Shannon they are right and NOT to truely fix the situation. I wouldn't be surprised if they only sent Shannon to counselling and didn't go themselves. I can only feel sorry for them because I don't think those parents will ever get it.

 

Shannon if you read this. You're a great person - just don't get so angry about things, I know you feel absolutely singled out in this situation and it is really unfair. Life is bigger than those people, there are so many other people that will respect you and love you for who you are. The next time they get the best of you, just think about the bigger picture and calm down, you need to start doing things to better yourself, focus on your future and don't let them get you down.

 
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August 24, 2006, 8:59 pm PDT

08/02 "I Love Myself!"

Quote From: reggie217

NPD or not , I was absolutely sick over the way these parents deal with Shannon. I have never posted about a show before, but this one made me so angry. I think she needs some real guidance, love, and affection that will never come from these two parents. It saddens me. 
Amen!! I totally agree with you! Most of the above emails are quite negative - I agree that Shannon should take some blame - BUT WHO ARE THE ADULTS HERE??? I would never lie to a child in order to put her away, WHAT A DISGRACE! If she was that disruptive, a responsible and loving parent would have told her where she was going and why? People should get a bloody license to be a parent.
 
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