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Topic : 07/06 Baby Wars

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Created on : Thursday, April 13, 2006, 01:22:17 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 04/21/06) Being a parent is hard enough, but what happens when Mom and Dad can't agree on how many kids to have, how to raise 'em and how to get ‘em to sleep?  Sometimes, it can lead to an all-out baby war! Matt's baby battle ended up in front of a judge and made headlines. He was ordered to pay child support for the baby he had with his ex-girlfriend, but he says he shouldn't have to cough up the money because she told him she wasn't able to get pregnant, and he told her he didn't want to be a father. He, his attorney, and the director of the National Center for Men discuss the lawsuit they filed, known as “Roe v. Wade for Men,” arguing that men should have a constitutional right to avoid fatherhood. Next, Dan says even though he and his wife, Lisa, already have four children, he wants just one more. Lisa has been pregnant on and off for 11 years and says she's closed for baby business. Will Dr. Phil help Dan see Lisa's point that four is enough? Then, a frustrated husband is camping out on the roof of his house and living in a tent. He refuses to go back to his bedroom until his wife moves their kids out of their bed and starts paying more attention to him. Can Dr. Phil get him to come down the ladder? Plus, a sleep expert has a simple method for getting your child to sleep through the night. See the plan in action! Share advice and talk about the show here.

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April 21, 2006, 1:04 pm PDT

04/21 Baby Wars

 I am from Michigan, and when I first heard this story on the news my jaw dropped.  I could not believe what I was hearing.  A man does have a choice.  They have the choice of either having sex, and taking the risk of impregnating a girl, or to not have sex.  If a man believes that wearing a condom or taking birth control is 100% effective against pregnancy, they must have skipped school the day they were teaching that.  I understand that women have the right to raise the child, give the child up for adoption, or to terminate the pregnancy all together, but thy man has the choice also in whether or not he wants to take the risk of impregnating a woman.  He is just as much at fault as she is.  And for the issue of him saying that she told him that medically she can't get pregnant, is not a good excuse.  Many people in this world are told that they will not be able to conceive, but miraculously do.
Another topic I want to touch is something Dr. Phil mentioned on the show.  "If this goes through, won't it have a trickle effect on other dead beat dads?"  I totally agree with that.  I know a lot of dead beat dads, and if they had the choice, they wouldn't pay child support.  A ton of them don't even pay the full amount that the courts ordered them to pay in the first place.  And on top of that, I have seen a lot of dads go to jail because they didn't pay it at all.  I think that if this passes, the courts will get backed up with a ton of these cases, and wasting the courts time at taking care of the bigger issues in Michigan, and leaving a lot of single mothers to raise kids on their own.
 
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April 21, 2006, 1:04 pm PDT

04/21 Baby Wars

Quote From: chan014

I agree with your last line so much!!!! 
You couldn't have said it better!!! It should be our choice and that's it. Like you said, of course men should have a say, but it shouldn't be up to them, it's our body, we carry them for nine months etc...WE go through so much more then them. They have no idea what we go through. I have an 18 month old daughter and I was in labour for THREE days!!!! With NO drugs, then had to get a c section. So your damn right it's my choice, her father is still in our lives and we are still together. I'm very lucky.
Matt sure wasn't complaing in bed now was he???
Suck it up princess..haha

 
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April 21, 2006, 1:04 pm PDT

roe v. wade for boys

as a young mother who was in a similar situation to Matt's girlfriend (only my boyfriend decided to suck it up and take responsibility) i empathize with both of them.  the truth is, though, that you don't know how you will feel about adoption until the child is born.  even while pregnant, and right up till birth i was scared and confused about whether i could take care of my son emotionally, physically, and financially.  i decided that i needed my son as much as he needs me, and was fortunate that his dad loves both of us enough to do his part. however difficult it gets any decision you make is, and should be permanent.  on that note: if matt wants the same rights as women (to terminate his parental responsibility) ten that should be permanent as well.  my point is if he wants nothing to do with the child or her mother then he cannot change his mind.  abortions cannot be undone and he did say he wants the same rights as women.  just food for thought. y'all don't have to agree
 
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April 21, 2006, 1:05 pm PDT

get real

Quote From: goodlife11

If  you are a woman having unprotected sex, you are subconsciously looking for trouble.  Women, you can't trapp men, period!   If you are choosing to have sex, and you get pregnant, you can't expect "the man" just to take care of you.    Women, we have the choice to abort a pregnancy, deliver a pregnancy, and give up a pregnancy.  Which means you also have the choice to tell our partner to use a condom for crying out loud.  ( especially if it's a one night stand, or a random hook up!)  And if you happen to get pregnant when you are not in a committed relationship, you can ask for support from the father, but you can't force him to choose YOUR CHOICE. 

  

Us woman need to take responsibility too.    This woman told this guy she couldn't have children.  sounds like a trapp to me.  Yes, the guy should know better too, but all in all , women are the gate keepers.  She should have known that if she got pregnant he wouldn't be involved.  The baby is probably better without him anyway, cuz who wants a father who doesn't love you trying to raise you? 

  

She needs to get over it, and figure out another way. 

I have a friend who was told by a doctor that she would never be able to have kids.  She got pregnant six years after that.  Stuff happens and that doesn't mean she was trying to trap that man!!!  He had the ultimate decision of wearing a condom reguardless of her telling him that she couldn't get pregnant.  It sounds to me that you are trying to free the man of all responsiblity to this child.  And the woman is taking all the responsibility because she is raising that child and finicially supporting that child herself.  The child didn't ask to be brought into this situation and has the right to loving parents, food, clothing, and an education.  In case you forgot, everything I just listed besides the loving parents part costs money!
 

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April 21, 2006, 1:05 pm PDT

04/21 Baby Wars

Quote From: gtp2000

This is a topic I need to enter my two cents on, I feel very strongly that the issues this gentleman is addressing with his court battle are ones that should have been addressed years ago.  Sex without marriage is simple a way of life this day and age.  So to say if you do not want to be a parent then you shouldn’t have sex is ridiculous, and it is not irresponsible, accidents happen all the time, also a reality.  The part that disturbs me and always has is the fact that women are made out to be victims in this situation.  I am sorry, but there are plenty of women out there willing to trap a man with a child.  There is so much debate in North America over abortion and choice, I think it is alarming that in the US and Canada two countries based on choice and human rights, they have been completely removed for men and nothing has been done about this for so long.  When there is an unplanned pregnancy the woman decides if she wants the child, if she should have it, if she should keep it, even if she should tell the father or not, but the moment the bills start to come in she files for support and the man is paying for that child the rest of his life.  I am sorry if this sounds cold,  this issue is more than responsibility of an unwanted child, it is about rights, it is about being held responsible, accountable and financially obligated to something you have NO say in.  I am sorry, but in any situation that is wrong.   

 it is about being held responsible, accountable and financially obligated to something you have NO say in.  

Sorry, but you are wrong.  By having intercourse, the man certainly made a choice. The reason he doesn't get to decide the rest of it is because he can't physically accept the consequences of the decisions.  If he chooses an abortion, he can't have one because he isn't pregnant.  If he chooses the carry the baby to term, he can't because he doesn't have a womb. 

 

The problem isn't a man's legal rights, it is his different biology. 

 
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April 21, 2006, 1:06 pm PDT

abandoment

Quote From: kittyc

I agree with everyone who has a problem with the decisions made about having sex and the possibility of pregnancy, but we're not talking about PRE-conception rights here, only POST-conception rights.   

   

So let's lay the FACTS out and look at it logically:   

   

Pre-conception:   

Women - birth control or abstinence   

Men - condoms or abstinence   

   

Looks to me like the choices are pretty equal.......take responsibility or either keep your pants zipped or your legs together.   

   

Post-conception:   

Women - deliver and keep, deliver and put up for adoption, abortion, or abandon at a 'Safe Place'.   

Men - NONE   

   

When the feminists holler for equal rights, they better be willing to put their money where their mouth is.  Matt and his lawyers are absolutely right........there are NO choices for men with post-conception rights.  Often the ones who WANT to be fathers have that privelege taken away when a mother opts to abort, and others (like Matt) are forced to be fathers because they have no say in what happens after conception.   

   

This argument is ONLY about post-conception rights and it's obvious by the facts that men have NO rights whatsoever.  Which is exactly what I am teaching my boys.  My 17 y. o. is having a hard time understanding that, especially since he also understands that if a girl wants an abortion, she doesn't even have to tell him if she doesn't want to.  Out of the mouths of babes:  his biggest question is 'Why do they have all the say on what happens to the baby and I have none?'   

   

I hope and pray that Roe v. Wade for Men answers it for him.........   

   

And one more food for thought:   

   

If a mother can abandon her newborn at a 'Safe Places', why can't a father?  Concidering he is as much a parent to that child as the mother is, why not??   

9 time out of 10 the father has already abandoned the mother while she is with child, is that not enough? 

  

 

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April 21, 2006, 1:06 pm PDT

04/21 Baby Wars

Quote From: leanlu

I can’t stand the thought that men should have the right to abort or financially abandon their child. ALSO KNOW THAT ROE VS. WADE SHOULD BE OVERTURNED because women should not have the right either to KILL - MURDER their baby. There’s one sure way to have 100% birth control and that is abstinence instead of premarital slumming around on both genders’ parts. (Which I’m guilty of but at 44 yrs. old honestly only fell from grace less than 50 times)  

   

Since MURDERING OUR FUTURE is humanly legal, MEN SHOULD HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS FOR LIFE! I gave up my baby in 1997 to a wonderful couple with a very strong marriage behind them because that was in my daughter’s best interest since I felt her father (who was going to marry me) would someday regret myself and our child and every child deserves a happy home plus a mother in a lot better medical health than myself. What I’m getting to is that my child’s father had to consent to the adoption which I feel is absolutely just however, WITCHES every day killed over 43 million children in the past thirty - something years without any consent from the biological father!  

   

EQUAL RIGHTS FOR MEN WHO WOULD LOVE TO BE FATHERS AND I SALUTE YOU EVERY FATHERS’ DAY!  

Aside from your "generous" act of giving your child up for adoption, if you could go back would you have gotten pregnant to begin with?  For someone who is so obviously anti-abortion, why sere you having sex when you were not ready to have a baby???
 
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April 21, 2006, 1:06 pm PDT

Matt is an idiot

Quote From: jwal523

I was appalled as I watched the young man who didn't want any parental rights to that beautiful little girl.  Anytime that two people get involved intimately, they have to realize what the outcome could be. Voicing that he did not want to be a father is not enough. He should have used protection or simply not have had sex! Speculating on what the mother may have been thinking, why would she have wanted to abort this child or give it up for adoption when she was probably elated to know that she got pregnant (thinking that she couldn't). These other men who are trying to gain "constitutional" rights for men are ridiculous. I believe that if a judge is ignorant enough to side with them, that many more children will be hurt and not cared for properly because of a bogus new rule. "Oops, I don't want to be a father" is not good enough. When will the young men in our society begin to stand up and be responsible for their actions? As the old adage says, "If you do the crime, you must do the time." Dr. Phil- thanks for telling them like it is!
You know, over the years I have watch friends and family members go through the trials and tribulations that can come with custody battles with children.  And yes, most are like what you see on todays show.  The women want to drain every living dime the dad has, and some dad's dont want to pay a dime.  The exception is my brother Geno.  He is one of the statisitics, baby came at an early age with highschool girlfriend, they stayed together for a short time after the baby was born but eventually split up. Geno NEVER once tried to ditch his responsibilities, he had to work 3 jobs to make child support and sometimes there wasn't money left to buy groceries to feed himself.  He never complained. I watched as he tried his hardest to keep ahead of his child support payments, and I am sure he fell short a time or two...but not because he wasn't trying his very best.  Years later, he met another young lady and they had a son and adopted a son and got married. Eventually they too split up and she is doing the same thing....trying to take as much as she can just so she doesn't have to work.  (Her words, not mine). I am mad, I am ANGRY because all his life my brother has done the right thing, he works hard to pay child support first and take care of himself last.  I am so SICK and TIRED of all these women who have babies and think it's okay to not work and live off child support.  GET A JOB ALREADY! Be an equal opportunity WOMEN and fend for your self  with the HELP of child support.
 
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April 21, 2006, 1:07 pm PDT

04/21 Baby Wars

does he really think that just because he was "not ready" to be a father , that he can just back out.  A lot of things happens in our lives that we are not always ready for, but we always try to deal with it. If he thinks he is old enough to have sex, then he is also old enough to understand possible outcome and deal with it. He was talking about his rights being violated....What about his little girl's rights.....she has a right to a loving father......she did not ask to be in this world
 
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April 21, 2006, 1:07 pm PDT

shocking

I find it shocking that most people are talking about the choices women have as though it's like choosing a movie to see on a Friday night. Do you think that choosing between abortion, adoption, or keeping a child is an easy thing? Whether a women has a child or not once she becomes pregnant she lives with her decision forever. That's why it's her choice and it always should be.  

  

Sex involves responsibility - the mother is obviously taking responsibility why shouldn't Matt? He does have choices: unprotected sex or not - the same choices as a women. He and she choose unprotected sex so now he and she BOTH need to take responsibility.  

  

Men and women have equality - they both have the choice to have sex or not, to have protected sex or not, and if their choices result in a pregnancy then it is both their responsibilities. If a women chooses to have an abortion - it is her right, men don't get to have equal rights here any more than a women could stop a man from "getting fixed". I wonder how many men are out there trying to get injunctions to prevent their sexual partners from having an abortion VS. how many men are out there trying to get out of paying child support? 

  

Which is essentially what this whole argument is about - the almighty dollar. Matt and that foolish National Council for Men are only concerned about not having to be fiscally responsible for their actions, not about what is best for the children in this world or for society as a whole - and I think it's disgusting.  

  

As for women "tricking" men into getting them pregnant - give me a break. The very idea of it makes men look so stupid - if you really feel that women are really only concerned with getting in your wallet - keep a condom in there!!!  

  

  

  

 
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