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Topic : 07/06 Baby Wars

Number of Replies: 7224
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Created on : Thursday, April 13, 2006, 01:22:17 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 04/21/06) Being a parent is hard enough, but what happens when Mom and Dad can't agree on how many kids to have, how to raise 'em and how to get ‘em to sleep?  Sometimes, it can lead to an all-out baby war! Matt's baby battle ended up in front of a judge and made headlines. He was ordered to pay child support for the baby he had with his ex-girlfriend, but he says he shouldn't have to cough up the money because she told him she wasn't able to get pregnant, and he told her he didn't want to be a father. He, his attorney, and the director of the National Center for Men discuss the lawsuit they filed, known as “Roe v. Wade for Men,” arguing that men should have a constitutional right to avoid fatherhood. Next, Dan says even though he and his wife, Lisa, already have four children, he wants just one more. Lisa has been pregnant on and off for 11 years and says she's closed for baby business. Will Dr. Phil help Dan see Lisa's point that four is enough? Then, a frustrated husband is camping out on the roof of his house and living in a tent. He refuses to go back to his bedroom until his wife moves their kids out of their bed and starts paying more attention to him. Can Dr. Phil get him to come down the ladder? Plus, a sleep expert has a simple method for getting your child to sleep through the night. See the plan in action! Share advice and talk about the show here.

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April 20, 2006, 2:32 pm CDT

baby wars

Quote From: alleyg

Sex is fun, and sex makes babies. If you are really opposed to having children, then you should not be having sex.   

   

Yes, women have alot of power. We put out or not. We abort or not. I understand how that can seem terribly unfair. But here's the flip side. We carry the baby. We loose bone and blood for them We sit up at night while they cry. We take lesser jobs so we can spend time with them.   

   

Men do none of these things. I have been in a situation where I was on the pill and got pregnant anyhow. I chose to keep my son, how could i not, the creator himself chose me to raise him. I was young and poor and had to take state health insurance (medicaid).   

   

To get the medicaide,  I had to tell who the father was, even though he didn't want anything to do with us. I know for a fact that he has a support order against him that he isn't paying.   

   

BUT THAT ISN"T THE POINT  

   

The point is what is best for the baby. I have a child, that fact alters my life permanetly, If the guy has to pay a little child support, then so be it. But if he was so opposed to being a father, he should have gotten himself fixed. Its a quick and easy operation done in an out patient setting.  

Then you're saying if a woman gets pregnant by accident and doesn't want to keep the baby, she should get fixed too?  

  

  

As for staying up with a crying baby and taking lesser jobs, I've known men who've done that too (Depended on the family job).  As for carrying the baby, of course that isn't possible for the guy  :).  

  

It's a complicated thing (Due to different situations like BC accidents, women who get pregnant on purpose when the guy says he's not ready, or if they plan and one bails out).  It should all probably  be based on a case to case thing.  

 
April 20, 2006, 2:39 pm CDT

Man Hating Sexism

Quote From: stupormom

Women get the lion's share of the choices in this issue because they get the lion's share of the concequences.  The day that a man can carry, deliver, and nurse the child, they can have all the choices they please!  

This is a perfect example of man hating sexism. Lets consider adding one key point to women's slogan regards abortion: 

" Her body, her choice... HER *responsibility* ! " 

In an age where women have MANY means to void legal parenthood, POST coitally, it is nothing more and nothing less than man hating sexism to DENY men any such legal rights. 

Lets remember that abortion ISN'T a natural thing, that Legal Abandon Laws ( In 40+ states now ) 

AREN'T natural things, and so on.  

Either men should get legal post coital choices or women should have such post-coital choices 

as men get right now: NONE. 

Anything else is pure misandrous sexism. Ptui. 

Oh, one more point to the sow who posted this sexism: Men do the lion's share of the work that keeps society running. When women are ready to do *as much and as well*, then maybe equal 

rights at work might be tolerated. Hows you like that ? 

 
April 20, 2006, 2:43 pm CDT

Boo Hoo, Women Have Choices, Men Should Too

Quote From: alleyg

Sex is fun, and sex makes babies. If you are really opposed to having children, then you should not be having sex.   

   

Yes, women have alot of power. We put out or not. We abort or not. I understand how that can seem terribly unfair. But here's the flip side. We carry the baby. We loose bone and blood for them We sit up at night while they cry. We take lesser jobs so we can spend time with them.   

   

Men do none of these things. I have been in a situation where I was on the pill and got pregnant anyhow. I chose to keep my son, how could i not, the creator himself chose me to raise him. I was young and poor and had to take state health insurance (medicaid).   

   

To get the medicaide,  I had to tell who the father was, even though he didn't want anything to do with us. I know for a fact that he has a support order against him that he isn't paying.   

   

BUT THAT ISN"T THE POINT  

   

The point is what is best for the baby. I have a child, that fact alters my life permanetly, If the guy has to pay a little child support, then so be it. But if he was so opposed to being a father, he should have gotten himself fixed. Its a quick and easy operation done in an out patient setting.  

Whats really best for a baby ? How about TWO willing parents ? When a single woman " oopsies " a man, her action is *already* going against whats best for the child, so at that point, NO such woman has any standing to pimp out the child for money from someone who never got their own choice to say " No ". 

But, the quoted person's argument is *exactly* the same argument for the banning of abortion. 

Funny how flushing fetuses down drains is OK, but not paying a woman who had the ONLY choice 

to bear a child is evil ? Talk about Double Standards ! 

" Her body, her choice... HER *responsibility* ". 

 
April 20, 2006, 2:46 pm CDT

We Knew...

Quote From: lillskr

While I think men should have their responsibility too, I agree with what you're saying.  Women have fought long and hard to have a choice on whether or not to have the child they are carrying ( Whether it's abortion or adoption- although I think adoption is a better choice so it's gives the kid a chance).  People say "Then he shouldn't have sex with the woman".  Sex is a two way street (Unless it's rape).   

Please, no hate replies. I'm not making a fight, just an opinion.  Men should live up to their responsibilities as women (Or give their baby a good home or whatever's right for the situation), but the whole thing is so one sided.   

Yes, I'm a woman.   

   

If woman demand the right to not suffer any consequences, POST-coitally, including by means that are neither biological nor medical ( See " Legal Abandon Laws ", and " Adopting Out Laws " ), 

then its anti men sexism to deny men the same kinds of legal choice by which to say " no ". 

If " sex is a two way street ", how come the consequences of sex are held ONLY against men ?  

And, how about asking *women* to live up to their responsibilities, too ?  

" Her body, her choice... HER *responsibility* ". 

  

 
April 20, 2006, 2:51 pm CDT

A Woman Who Does Get It- Equality

Quote From: bwisdom

Why do women get all of the chocies? Yes we ALL know what causes pregnacy and we all know how to prevent it. But WHY IN THE WORLD DO WOMEN GET ALL THE CHOCIES? Yeah, I know... It's your body. Well it's his life also. And no it's not the baby's fault, it's the man and woman's fault. Yet the woman has a choice to have or not have the baby. (Either way the child will be effected. By not having a father or having one who dosen't want him/her.) What if we start thinking about the tables being turned? What if the man wants the baby but the woman wants to have an abortion? What then? If women have choices, men should have choices. We as women want to be equals. We have faught for so long, and are still fighting, for our rights to be considered equals. Yet, we want to have the rules one way when it's in our favor and the other way when it's not??!! We can't have it both ways. We either consider the child a child and treat this child as if it were out of the womb OR we decide it's a choice and it's not a child until post-womb. We can't have both. We can't be selfish just because it's our bodies, just because we're the womb. Either it's a choice or it's not! After that is decided, then if it's a choice the man should have his choice, if it's not a choice and it's a child, then a father he should be able to refuse or use his parential rights! Brandy W, KS

You're exactly right. Its sexist to claim that women should only get choices and men only get consequences. That view, in fact, infantalises women, so its really the ultimate not just in 

misandry, but in misogyny, too. 

Granted, men and women cannot be fuly equal in this area, that is, if a man wants a child, he does need to procure a willing woman who wnats to do that with him. That should be the standard for both men and for women, even though women can, biologically speaking, go it alone, after they 

get some sperm. But, as with many other htings, that we can do a thing, does not mean that we should do it. The data on the harms to children of being made deliberately fatherless is massive, 

and unrefutable. If some man hating women say " we don't need men ", then I say back, " fine, 

do so without our sperm and money, too. Thats... consistant ". 

 
April 20, 2006, 2:52 pm CDT

Buh Bye Abortion !

Quote From: jettav

then don't have sex and take chances or go get an operation!

Thats the EXACT argument against abortion. So, are you consistant enough to demand that women: " then don't have sex and take chances or go get an operation " ? 

" Her body, her choice... HER *responsibility* ! " 

  

  

 
April 20, 2006, 3:42 pm CDT

Men bear the consequences -- not women

Quote From: stupormom

Women get the lion's share of the choices in this issue because they get the lion's share of the concequences.  The day that a man can carry, deliver, and nurse the child, they can have all the choices they please!  

Uh, hold on there stupormom.   Divorced or unmarried men like Matt Dubay are on the hook for 18+ years of child support when a woman has a kid.  How the heck do you think a man comes up with $500 per month for 18 years?  Here a clue -- he uses his BODY to earn that money.   If he refuses, off to jail!

Women, on the other hand, have completed their physical burden after 9 months.  Let's see, 9 months vs. 18 years -- who's got the greater burden?  Who bears greater consequences?

Women get the choices, men get the responsibilities, and that's just how the women want to keep things.  It's about time somebody stood up for equal reproductive rights for men!
 
April 20, 2006, 3:46 pm CDT

ok this is a strange

well it goes like this if a man don't want kids then keep your will in your pants until you get married then make sure the wife is on some kind of birth control or the man wear a condom plain and simple
 
April 20, 2006, 4:09 pm CDT

04/21 Baby Wars

Quote From: lieven

Thats the EXACT argument against abortion. So, are you consistant enough to demand that women: " then don't have sex and take chances or go get an operation " ? 

" Her body, her choice... HER *responsibility* ! " 

  

  

I agree...if you have the uterus, you have the power and the responibility for what ends up in your uterus.

If a man is TRICKED into having a baby then he shouldn't have to pay for it.  The woman knew the man didn't want the baby, she lied, tricked him, got pregnant and is now demanding support for this baby?

A person who is that unstable should probably have the baby taken away from her anyway...
 
April 20, 2006, 4:18 pm CDT

Then I take you are against abortion rights for women?

Quote From: mamawolf

well it goes like this if a man don't want kids then keep your will in your pants until you get married then make sure the wife is on some kind of birth control or the man wear a condom plain and simple
I guess abortion should be outlawed then, right?  Surely you must agree, after all, "well it goes like this if a WOMAN doesn't want kids then keep your legs closed until you get married."  You are right -- Plain and simple!

See, when you apply the equal restrictions on women, they don't like it.  It's a clear double-standard.
 
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