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Topic : 07/06 Baby Wars

Number of Replies: 7224
New Messages This Week: 0
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Created on : Thursday, April 13, 2006, 01:22:17 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 04/21/06) Being a parent is hard enough, but what happens when Mom and Dad can't agree on how many kids to have, how to raise 'em and how to get ‘em to sleep?  Sometimes, it can lead to an all-out baby war! Matt's baby battle ended up in front of a judge and made headlines. He was ordered to pay child support for the baby he had with his ex-girlfriend, but he says he shouldn't have to cough up the money because she told him she wasn't able to get pregnant, and he told her he didn't want to be a father. He, his attorney, and the director of the National Center for Men discuss the lawsuit they filed, known as “Roe v. Wade for Men,” arguing that men should have a constitutional right to avoid fatherhood. Next, Dan says even though he and his wife, Lisa, already have four children, he wants just one more. Lisa has been pregnant on and off for 11 years and says she's closed for baby business. Will Dr. Phil help Dan see Lisa's point that four is enough? Then, a frustrated husband is camping out on the roof of his house and living in a tent. He refuses to go back to his bedroom until his wife moves their kids out of their bed and starts paying more attention to him. Can Dr. Phil get him to come down the ladder? Plus, a sleep expert has a simple method for getting your child to sleep through the night. See the plan in action! Share advice and talk about the show here.

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April 20, 2006, 6:18 pm CDT

Do Men have choices?

Ok, first I know many people will disagree with this and maybe someone will agree but I think that this needs to be said.    

 First I have been in this situation and am now a single parent of a 2 year old boy. When I was 23 I was with someone that was 36 I will call him Mr. Doe. We were together for awhile and we both did not want any children. I was on birth control and was told by a doctor "That it would be impossible for me to conceive without fertility drugs" I took my pill everyday at the same time, i took the fake ones too. I did everything that I was suppose to do so that the pill works right. I WAS NOT on fertility drugs. Mr. Doe and I had sex unprotected a few times we were mainly using the pill. We broke up and about 6 months later I found out I was pregnant. I know this is shocking and I swear that I was going to the doctor trying to find out what was wrong with me the whole time. The doctors tried pregnancy tests, blood tests,  exams, and a lot more. I saw specialist I went to 4-5 different doctors all said that I was not pregnant and that I could not have children without fertility treatments. I did not gain any weight I was exercising and dieting. Eventually I felt my son kick in Aug. I went to the doctor still not believing that I was pregnant. They told me I was and that I was due in Nov.    

 I told Mr. Doe and he decided that he was not ready for a child, he did not want me to put him up for adoption. He wanted me to have an abortion. It became a huge fight because an abortion was not an option neither was adoption for me. He made the choice that he wanted nothing to do with the child. I have maintained a email address where he can contact me if he has any questions. He has never had any questions. He has seen my son twice in 2 years.   

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  In my case and in other cases a man does have choice. Just like Mr. Doe who choose not to use a condom every time. He choice just to depend on my pill and the doctors telling me I could not get pregnant with out fertility drugs. That was his choice. I choose to continue using the pill; But I did  not demand him to use a condom every time. The mans choice is 1) To wear a condom or not? 2) To get fixed or  not to get fixed? 3) I believe that they now have a pill for a man (I am not positive on this)  Are these not choice's... Or are they not enough of a choice?    

  A woman may have more of a choice. A woman may choice to have an abortion even if the man does not want her to have one just as she may choice to have the baby even if the man does not want her too.    

   

   

 
April 20, 2006, 7:01 pm CDT

04/21 Baby Wars

Quote From: purplepain

I think the current system works most of the time. But this case that Dr Phil has on his show is really out there. And I think this man should be free of child support. He never wanted a child and made that clear to this woman. This case is very easy to research on the internet.

It's complicated, I agree. But this woman does not deserve child support and she should have known that she wouldn't recieve support.

That is the crux of the matter. Women who trick men, and I admit it's not common but it's not unheard of,  into having baby's should realize they run the risk of thier child not having a father.

Woman need to step up and take responibility for thier bodies...COMPLETELY.

Morally, I'm right there with you. I think it's sad that women will deliberately get pregnant to "get" a man.....they do not seem to think enough of themselves to believe they could meet a man who would WANT to have a child with them and marry them.  

   

I also think it's just as, if not more, prevalent for men and boys to be completely irresponsible about birth control. I remember in college guys bragging how they wouldn't wear condoms, and advising each other how to pressure a girl into having an abortion.   

   

I think women and girls need to take responsibility for their bodies, and men and boys need to take responsibility for their "seeds". I don't know the details of this particular story.....but I'm going to teach my boys that they need to take responsibility for themselves, no matter what some girl tells them. Boys need to know girls will lie (or make mistakes) just as boys will lie and make mistakes.  

 
April 20, 2006, 7:04 pm CDT

04/21 Baby Wars

Quote From: purplepain

I think the current system works most of the time. But this case that Dr Phil has on his show is really out there. And I think this man should be free of child support. He never wanted a child and made that clear to this woman. This case is very easy to research on the internet.

It's complicated, I agree. But this woman does not deserve child support and she should have known that she wouldn't recieve support.

That is the crux of the matter. Women who trick men, and I admit it's not common but it's not unheard of,  into having baby's should realize they run the risk of thier child not having a father.

Woman need to step up and take responibility for thier bodies...COMPLETELY.

Morally, I'm right there with you. I think it's sad that women will deliberately get pregnant to "get" a man.....they do not seem to think enough of themselves to believe they could meet a man who would WANT to have a child with them and marry them.  

   

I also think it's just as, if not more, prevalent for men and boys to be completely irresponsible about birth control. I remember in college guys bragging how they wouldn't wear condoms, and advising each other how to pressure a girl into having an abortion.   

   

I think women and girls need to take responsibility for their bodies, and men and boys need to take responsibility for their "seeds". I don't know the details of this particular story.....but I'm going to teach my boys that they need to take responsibility for themselves, no matter what some girl tells them. Boys need to know girls will lie (or make mistakes) just as boys will lie and make mistakes.  

 
April 20, 2006, 7:22 pm CDT

Its men like YOU!

Quote From: jayriddle

Uh, hold on there stupormom.   Divorced or unmarried men like Matt Dubay are on the hook for 18+ years of child support when a woman has a kid.  How the heck do you think a man comes up with $500 per month for 18 years?  Here a clue -- he uses his BODY to earn that money.   If he refuses, off to jail!

Women, on the other hand, have completed their physical burden after 9 months.  Let's see, 9 months vs. 18 years -- who's got the greater burden?  Who bears greater consequences?

Women get the choices, men get the responsibilities, and that's just how the women want to keep things.  It's about time somebody stood up for equal reproductive rights for men!
Men like you that are so worried about the finances of a child, should think before having unsafe sex with any woman! And yes, I woman has a "burden', as YOU so call it, to be physically attached to the child for 9 months. YET, we also have 18+ years raising that child too! Most of the time, more then the father due to the father being the one who usually chooses to work to support the family. That is until the baby is older or in school and then the mother goes back to work and still somehow manages to have a career, keep a home and raise her family. Maybe not ALL woman make the choice to get pregnant. But let me tell you bud, our responsibilities surpass men like you! It dosent matter after the fact that there is an innocent child being abandoned by a dad who was willing to take a stupid chance  with being unprotected while playing HIS GAME! And ALOT of dead beat dads never go to jail.
 
April 20, 2006, 7:25 pm CDT

Its men like YOU!

Quote From: jayriddle

Uh, hold on there stupormom.   Divorced or unmarried men like Matt Dubay are on the hook for 18+ years of child support when a woman has a kid.  How the heck do you think a man comes up with $500 per month for 18 years?  Here a clue -- he uses his BODY to earn that money.   If he refuses, off to jail!

Women, on the other hand, have completed their physical burden after 9 months.  Let's see, 9 months vs. 18 years -- who's got the greater burden?  Who bears greater consequences?

Women get the choices, men get the responsibilities, and that's just how the women want to keep things.  It's about time somebody stood up for equal reproductive rights for men!
Men like you that are so worried about the finances of a child, should think before having unsafe sex with any woman! And yes, I woman has a "burden', as YOU so call it, to be physically attached to the child for 9 months. YET, we also have 18+ years raising that child too! Most of the time, more then the father due to the father being the one who usually chooses to work to support the family. That is until the baby is older or in school and then the mother goes back to work and still somehow manages to have a career, keep a home and raise her family. Maybe not ALL woman make the choice to get pregnant. But let me tell you bud, our responsibilities surpass men like you! It dosent matter after the fact that there is an innocent child being abandoned by a dad who was willing to take a stupid chance  with being unprotected while playing HIS GAME! And ALOT of dead beat dads never go to jail.
 
April 20, 2006, 8:43 pm CDT

boo hoo

Roe vs. Wade for Men? 

LOL! Give me a break! 

If you don't want a child, then don't have sex!  

Use protection, even if you think you can trust her. Better yet, just wait until your married.  

If you cannot control yourself and choose to act like an animal, then get yourself fixed! 

And if you choose to be selfish and do not want to father a the child, just sign your rights away. 

I am tired of this pathetic attitude. Oh you see I want to have sex but I don't want the responsibility or feel guilty if I become a parent against my will and don't the child in my life, even though I did choose to have sex. 

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. This poor child, the history it will have. My dad didn't want me, so he tried to make a law out of me. The a** couldn't just sign his rights away.  

Hey Matt, do you want some cheese with that WHINE!  

Unfreaking believable.  

I was a teenage mom. I was eighteen went I brought my son into this world. I though about abortion even though it was against my morals. But then I though, why should I make this child inside me pay because of my poor decision? He didn't ask to be here, what do he do deserve murder? And put the murder thing aside, I realized that if I went through abortion or adoption, that I was running away from my mistake. I dealt with my consequence.  And I give my child the love and support he needs and he is a very healthy kid. Why doesn't anybody else want to do that? Has America (except us good few, we know who we are) become that self-centered? 

  

  

  

 
April 20, 2006, 9:54 pm CDT

04/21 Baby Wars

I do not personally believe in abortion, however, women cannot have it both ways.  

If women want the right to an abortion, then they should also be able to accept the consequences of having sex if their partner decides they don't want the child.  I have seen both sides.  One a 19 year old whose girlfriend became pregnant, he got a job, moved to her state and was torn when  

she decided without consulting him that she did not want the baby and had an abortion.  That young man is still sufferring the consequences 15yrs later.  On the other hand, another friend whose husband continuosly strayed (she tricked him into marriage), lied to him and told him she was on birth control in order to have a baby...thinking that would keep him around.  Two years later, he still wants out of the marriage after the lies and now she is fighting for every dime she can get on child support.  Neither of these is fair to the men.  Basically the women do whatever they want and then expect the man to accept the consequences either way.  If you cannot afford a baby on your own, then don't have sex...don't go out and have sex and later say that the man also had a choice.  

 
April 20, 2006, 10:08 pm CDT

huh

Quote From: lieven

If woman demand the right to not suffer any consequences, POST-coitally, including by means that are neither biological nor medical ( See " Legal Abandon Laws ", and " Adopting Out Laws " ), 

then its anti men sexism to deny men the same kinds of legal choice by which to say " no ". 

If " sex is a two way street ", how come the consequences of sex are held ONLY against men ?  

And, how about asking *women* to live up to their responsibilities, too ?  

" Her body, her choice... HER *responsibility* ". 

  

I'm not sure if we were agreeing on the same page (I agree with what you're saying, but i'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not), but my post was about how unfair it is for people say that a man should take responsibility or not have sex at all, even though women are the other part of the whole thing.  I agreed it is anti men sexism because the whole thing is so one sided.  It's nice to see the parents take responsibilites or make the best choice whatever it maybe, at the same time  due to the situation it's unfair women can do what they please and men can't.  That's what I meant. 

 
April 20, 2006, 10:42 pm CDT

04/21 Baby Wars

Quote From: jayriddle

 The physical burden of raising children (i.e., after birth) should be shared equally between fathers and mothers.  If there is inequality there and you are doing vastly more than 50% of the daily tasks associated with raising your kids, then yes, you are doing something wrong and need to bring the kids to their Dad. 

If he's out working all day to bring home money for food, rent, and diapers, then I might suggest your kids' father's burden would be about equal to that of stay at home mom, except that the poor father doesn't get to bond with his children all day.  That's called the "daddy tax."

Just because a father changes fewer diapers or wipes fewer noses because he's busting his butt outside the home to provide for the kids doesn't mean his burden is any less than stay-at-home mom.

Equal reproductive rights for men NOW!  Men are not merely walking wallets!!

My husband works full-time and provides well finacially for our family and for that I am grateful.  However he is one of many men I know that thinks that being a stay at home mum is a walk in the park.  Its not - yes it is one the most rewarding jobs anybody could ever do but it definantly comes with its share of challenges.   

Everynight when my husband gets home, the house is spotless, the kids are fed, his tea is on the table, his work shirt is ironed ready for the next day and his lunch is in the fridge ready for work.  Cleaning wise - he doesnt lift a finger not even on weekends.  He spends is Saturdays 6 months of the year at cricket.    When I ask him to do stuff with the kids eg bath time , his reply is that the "kids" want me to do it.  They are 2 and 3.   

I am going to go out on a limb here, and I know there are going to be people out there that disagree - But in MY situation I would say that my "burdon" is bigger.  His works starts at 8:30am, finsihes at 5pm and doesnt include weekends.  Oh yeh and he also gets sick leave.  Ever tried telling a 2 year old that you cant look after them today because your sick?  Being a stay at home mum is a 24/7 job worthy of the recognition it deserves.   

 
April 21, 2006, 12:29 am CDT

04/21 Baby Wars

Quote From: julie1418

My husband is a phenomenal provider and father. He never did figure out how to breastfeed, but I can forgive him for that. I have no complaints about my own situation, I am just disputing your ridiculous "women's physical burdens are over in nine months" argument. 

  

  

Oh.  Goodness.  You are correct -- I should have said that the mother-only burden is not over until nursing is complete (I do not think that formula is a good idea -- breast milk is best).

Women can point to pregnancy (and nursing, if they are committed to it) as women-specific physical burdens that men are not subjected to for a year or two after childbirth.  I guess I was being ridiculous when I suggested women-only physical burdens were over (relative to men's) after 9 months of pregnancy.  Maybe it's a few months longer than that due to nursing.  But then again......

...While you breastfed your child -- who earned the income to buy the food to feed you so you could produce that high-quality mother's milk for the child?  My best guess is that your "phenomenal provider and father" went out and worked his bum off so you and his child would be well fed at home.  Nothing wrong with that (except that the poor guy might have been emotionally distressed that he could not be home bonding with his child like you -- that's the "daddy tax" that most men bear, but which nobody wants to talk about).

The problem I have is with women who claim "women bear all the consequences" after childbirth and therefore deserve all the post-conception rights.  Men's reproductive rights just don't seem to matter at all -- because they don't get pregnant or nurse.

BULL!

Fathers are required -- morally and legally -- to support their children regardless of whether or not they intended to conceive those children.  Any woman who asserts that women deserve more reproductive rights than men because they bear a greater physical burden (in the form of pregnancy or nursing) after conception is just flat out wrong. 

It's about time people acknowledged the very real and very heavy burdens and responsibilities fathers bear after childbirth.  And it's about time we grant them rights commensurate with those responsibilities.  That would grant men -- gasp -- equal reproductive rights to women!

Women have cried out for "equal rights" in all areas for decades.  But when it's time for men's rights in one area to be equal to women's rights, suddenly "equal" is a dirty word.


 
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