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Topic : 07/06 Baby Wars

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Created on : Thursday, April 13, 2006, 01:22:17 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 04/21/06) Being a parent is hard enough, but what happens when Mom and Dad can't agree on how many kids to have, how to raise 'em and how to get ‘em to sleep?  Sometimes, it can lead to an all-out baby war! Matt's baby battle ended up in front of a judge and made headlines. He was ordered to pay child support for the baby he had with his ex-girlfriend, but he says he shouldn't have to cough up the money because she told him she wasn't able to get pregnant, and he told her he didn't want to be a father. He, his attorney, and the director of the National Center for Men discuss the lawsuit they filed, known as “Roe v. Wade for Men,” arguing that men should have a constitutional right to avoid fatherhood. Next, Dan says even though he and his wife, Lisa, already have four children, he wants just one more. Lisa has been pregnant on and off for 11 years and says she's closed for baby business. Will Dr. Phil help Dan see Lisa's point that four is enough? Then, a frustrated husband is camping out on the roof of his house and living in a tent. He refuses to go back to his bedroom until his wife moves their kids out of their bed and starts paying more attention to him. Can Dr. Phil get him to come down the ladder? Plus, a sleep expert has a simple method for getting your child to sleep through the night. See the plan in action! Share advice and talk about the show here.

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April 25, 2006, 12:03 am PDT

Baby wars

Quote From: saminli

Okay, you say men should have choices.  Well, what would you suggest?  That women be forced into abortions that they do not want?  That after birth, babies be ripped from their mother against their will?  OR, as in Matt's case, he be totally set free from the financial, emotional and physical responsibility of fatherhood.  Well, if that were the case, then there would be thousands, and thousands of men that would love to be relieved of the financial burden and claim they were FORCED into parenthood.  over 50% of all pregancies are unplanned.  Should they all be aborted?  Most young people age 14-24 having sex do not want babies, as well as those that are over 35.  It does happen, unfortunately.  There is no easy solution and it is neither fair to the woman who is left with the choice of single parenthood or giving her baby up for adoption or abortion.  None of those choices are fair.  Neither is fatherhood when a man is not ready.  It is feasable to think in this day and age that the choice needs to be made pre-conception. 
One thing I dont see anyone bringing up is where is the women's responsilbity here. Everyone is quick to point the finger at the guy...he should zip his pants, he shouldnt be having sex if he's not wanting to be a dad.  Well....if the girl can't afford a baby, if she doesnt want to be a single mom...WHY is she having sex??? WHY does she get to decide it all???  WHy is she able to FORCE another into parenthood. It is sad that innocent kids are pulled into this...BUT MAYBE WOMEN NEED TO THINK OF THIS AHEAD OF TIME....since they are the ones that get pregnant.  I just think guys are carrying all the blame and us women are sometimes as much the problem as anyone.
 
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April 25, 2006, 12:13 am PDT

Baby wars

Quote From: nikki_ree

We need more women like you and me who understands the inherent unfairness of the current system. If we are to obtain a more equitable society, we need to address this glaring inequality between the sexes. In order to move forward we need to even the playing field.  

  

I also agree with your beliefs on sex prior to marriage. However, the truth of the matter is this is how our society is at this moment. Therefor we need to make some changes. We either need to provide more choices for men under the law, or we need to take some choices away from women. I think if given the option of either giving up choice or granting equal choice to men, most women will opt to keeping their choice and granting choice to men. Women would scream bloody murder if we took away their post conception choices and leave them with exactly the same choices men have today, none at all. What is worse, men are subjected to being forced into choices made by another person without any regards for their lives or feelings.  

  

I also agree many women would think twice if they knew men could opt out of parenthood, they way they can now decide if they chose to. A man must stand by and watch his child killed. I wonder how a woman would feel if suddenly a child was ripped from her womb? If she had forced abortion? I think she would be scarred for life. Yet many women don't think twice before killing a mans child, as though the child does not mean anything to him. 

  

I am sickened by all these self righteous women who are beating up an a young man who is only asking for a few of the rights regarding choosing the time he becomes a parent, choice they currently take for granted. I understand it is difficult to give up a position of power, yet this is exactly what must be done. I don't wish for that type of power over anybody,male or female.  

  

Thank you for speaking out. 

Sign me up too!  I live with both sides...I was a single mom and my husband has son that he's not involved with (the mother totally did this and he had nothing to do with the outcome).  I so agree with you 100% on what you are saying.  WHy doesnt this make sense to more???  It would save so many lost children and messed lives....    
 
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April 25, 2006, 12:38 am PDT

Baby wars

Quote From: chozieann

 I'm unmarried, but I was involved in a non-committed relationship with a guy for a little over a year.  I got pregnant with his child a month after his second child was born and a couple weeks before he got a vasectomy.  Neither of us knew I was pregnant when he received it.  He's twenty, I'm twenty-one.  He's now become responsible for his daughter, and two other children by the mother of this child and will soon take over custodial rights of his son and son's half sister in June.  However, he's shown little or no interest in taking responsibility for my child who will be born in September.  Neither of us expected anything from the other throughout the... relationship- but we did have unprotected sex a number of times and he knew I wasn't on birth control.  I'm thankful for the laws that will require him to pay child support despite his obvious desire to avoid this responsibility.
I dont understand why you expect anything...you said it was a non-committed relationship.  He had children ....one on the way...you slept with him.  You took chances and are now surprised he's not around????  But at least he's going to have to pay money now?  Please...what ever made you think he'd be there? How is this going to be a good thing for your baby?   Pay attention!  Past history on a guy will tell you alot.  We women need to quite lying to ourselves, having kids to not be lonely and start being respectful of ourselves.    I'm tired of women playing victim when the guy doesnt come thru...we need to protect ourselves.  Having children out of wedlock is almost never going to be in the best interest of the child and if you don't like adoption or abortion then maybe you need to really question what you're doing if you are putting yourself in the situatin of getting pregnant.  Your situation is exactly why they need to change the laws.  How do you justify all of this? Can you afford a baby without him paying?  Is it really in your child's best interest to be stuck in a single family home?  I was a single parent and I worked my butt off and still never had enough.  It was tough and I know the sacrifices were there and it sucked.  If I had to do it over again, I think I would have made other choices...hard to say today since I adore my son, but he lost out on alot.  NO SINGLE PARENT can do it all..no matter how great they are.  My son paid for not having a dad.  I got married 3 years ago and my husband is incredible when it comes to my son. He's 16 now and we had a few tough years but I now see very clearly what my son lost out on in those 13 years we were on our own.  I have alot of single parent friends and I can't give you any of them that I think are strong enough to rival a two parent family.  They all have issues and while two parents might not be the answer...it sure doesnt hurt.  PICK THE MAN YOU WANT TO PARENT YOUR CHILD CAREFULLY AND BE CHOOSY...MAKE SURE HE WANTS TO BE A PARENT..GIVE YOU CHILD THE BEST.  THEY DESERVE TO BE MORE THAN AN ACCIDENT, AN ISSUE OR A PAWN.
 
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April 25, 2006, 2:27 am PDT

Paranoia? No...

Quote From: groovy

>Look, most people will perform any manner of mental gymnastics to ensure that all females have the right to molest your children, the right to give date rape drugs to your college age son, the right to use a gun to force sex from your brother ... THAT, that is our society. That demand for all females to have the right to commit sex assault is who the North American population are.   

   

I don't mean to be flip here.  In all seriousness, I think you have graduated from a state of cynicism to paranoia. 
  

I've been in parent's, father's & men's rights long enough to have a good grasp of what the public thinks, NOT what the public says it thinks, but what the public actually thinks based upon what the public does.

My statement stands on the available evidence.  Ask Dr. Phil if you think I'm wrong. He'll ask his advisors and they will tell you the same thing: What the public says and what the public does --in regard to female offender rapes-- is so radicly different that one would think we have two publics.

This is the same thing one sees whenever one gets invovled with any of the areas where it is males who are treated unfailry. The public will do anything, say anything, allow anything to ensure harm while at the same time saying "We would never allow harm to males!"  Sexual dualism is the key to understanding the levels of sexism involved.
 
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April 25, 2006, 5:18 am PDT

Dubay: Motion to Dismiss

The Michigan Attorney General's Motion to Dismiss is now available on the internet on the Courthouse News Service at http://www.courthousenews.com/disc8_toc.htm  Scroll down to the Dubay story posted on April 24, 2006 and click on "motion to dismiss." 

  

The direct link to the motion to dismiss, through the above website is: 

http://www.courthousenews.com/dubay1.pdf 

 
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April 25, 2006, 5:37 am PDT

Women carry the baby for nine months -- so?

Come on, ladies.  How long are we going to hold that over men's head as though that entitles us to having everything our way?  Yes, pregnancy can be difficult for women with certain medical problems, just like walking can be difficult for people with certain medical problems -- but for a normal, healthy woman pregnancy is a wonderful  experience -- something her body was designed for.  I loved being pregnant and delivering my baby was the most exciting experience of my life.  How many women would trade that with her husband if she really had the choice? 

  

Being the person who carries the baby for nine months certainly doesn't entitle us to make all the decisions and have all the power for the next 21 years.  I know men who work back-breaking, miserable jobs all their lives  to support their families.  Isn't it time to give them a little credit and quit whining about those few months of pregnancy as though we are the only gender  who ever sacrificed for their children? 

 

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April 25, 2006, 5:38 am PDT

Let ME clear this up for YOU

Quote From: nikki_ree

Now, lets take the ability of a woman to have an abortion away. Lets not allow her to give her child up for adoption. Now the choice is equal. This is not about pre-conception issues but post conception choice. Does this clear up the confusion? 

  

I am a mother of eight grown children, two boys and six girls. I am very glad my daughters have the ability to have a choice in when and if they become parents. Whether it is right for them at this time. I would like to see my sons have this same ability. 

There is no confusion.  Pre-conception choices are the only way to avoid having to make post-conception choices.  I, to, am glad that my children have the choice to decide when they are ready to be parents.  If they don't want to be parents, they have the choice to abstain.  Knowing how unrealistic that is, if they choose to have sex, whether or not they use birth control, then they choose to be parents if they conceive.  Cut and dry...it doesn't get any clearer than that.  The choice has always been equal.  The problem is, people want to have a choice when it is already too late.   

 
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April 25, 2006, 6:12 am PDT

Men are Dogs...But women Get Pedistals ?

Quote From: julie1418

When I first read this, is sounded reasonable, but I'm not sure it's really fair to the child. It's tantamount to saying that a child born to a father who chooses to opt out of the child's life must live in poverty regardless of the father's income. Isn't it bad enough that a child, who did not choose the circumstances of his/her birth, is summarily rejected by an irresponsible parent?  

   

I'm not adverse to revisiting child support laws, specifically to consider the mother's income, but I'm not sure this is the answer.  

   

I am not unsympathetic to your personal struggles, but the fact remains that your husband chose to engage in irresponsible behavior and then compounded his bad choices to agreeing to a ridiculous scheme to cover his tracks. If you choose to remain married to him, unfortunately you may also bear the burden of suffering the consequences. If your husband's version of events is accurate, it doesn't seem reasonable that he should have to pay child support, but his own behavior in this matter is so bizarre and suspect that the truth will be difficult to prove. You know the old saying about laying down with the dogs.....  

   

Your case has nothing to do with the Dubay case or other child support cases. Do we really want to send the  message that a man's sole responsibility is to utter the words "I don't want children"?   

 Yes... The fact is, that my husband did choose to engage in irresponsible behavior and agreed to a ridulous scheme...but it was under the threat of extortion and blackmail and he paniced and tried to appease her out of a guilty conscience.      It is not just his behavior that disturbs me...The really bizarre behavior is that by the other woman.   And the one who is paying the price is the innocent child....now being raised solely by a psychopath.   I am reminded of this everyday...."lying down with a dog".....attitude..I understand this is why I should be condemmed as stupid too ?.......How dare I fight for what was attacked by another...it must be pretty good as it was so immesely desired by another  conniving  wench.   

was just offering a compromise about the child support issue...as any woman who chooses to have a child out of wedlock should have the means to take care of it.if she keeps it...she shouldn't have to rely on the unwilling wallet of another for her choice.   That was the POINT !

FYI>>>My *wench * menance has an MBA and thinks she deserves to be paid $250K a year for her skills...this must explain why she has been  unemployable for the last 5 years........she thinks she is so much more clever and smarter than everyone else....that she is entitled to start at the top without any merit !   ...It also explains how she climbs to the top of her corporate world...by sleeping her way there.........that really takes a special MBA, "Married  But  Available"...........
 
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April 25, 2006, 6:14 am PDT

04/21 Baby Wars

Even though I agree with Matt's position completely, I don't think his law suit will be successful. This is about money and the state's interest in keeping children off the welfare roles. So, right, wrong or otherwise, he's stuck with his partner's choice to give birth and keep a child that she knew prior to conception was going to be an unwanted, rejected child. 

  

I honestly don't see how anyone can see her as the hero in this. Some say that Matt is the one behaving badly here, but how can anyone with any forethought or sensitivity, give birth and totally disregard the feelings of the other parent or the child they are voluntarily bringing into being? Out of wedlock births are a tragedy and even in the best of circumstances, plenty of money, both parents involved, etc etc..the child starts off with a huge negative. 

  

To anyone who is saying that the answer is for men to keep it "zipped up" and that is their right, why isn't that the end of it? Both participants can keep it "zipped up" and then in the case of irresponsibility, failed birth control or a huge lie, whomever makes the final decision about the outcome becomes responsible for that decision. A woman can give birth in a bathroom and drop a baby off at any hospital, fire station or church and just walk away. Men should have that same option. 

  

The answer to me is clear. In all cases, custody should be assumed to be 50/50 immediately, from birth. If both parents have the child the same amount of time, there would be no support either way. There should be no assumption that the taxpayers would become responsible, in the event either parent or both, can't afford to raise a child. Somehow, I think if you take money out of the equation, this would happen far less frequently. Would the mother in this case be ok with that? Having Elisabeth with her Dad and paternal grandparents 50 percent of the time? Totally equal time and responsibility.  

  

I realize that this is not what Matt has in mind, and wouldn't work for him and others who have simply and clearly stated that they don't want to be parents. But I don't think he should be held hostage for 18 years or longer against his will.  

  

BTW, I am a retired woman, with 3 grown children and 4 grandchildren. The oldest of my 3 children, I raised by myself. His father wasn't interested in being a parent and I didn't want to spend my life in court, forcing someone to do something they didn't want to do. As a result of my decision, my son grew up in peace. He began a relationship with his father as an adult without any negativity instilled by me. I went without quite a bit through the years but my son had everything he needed and most of what he wanted. I would suspect that most children who are in single parent households live about the same way. It's the mother's who make the sacrifice. But it was my decision, therefore, my responsibility. 

  

 
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April 25, 2006, 6:18 am PDT

Don't have sex if you don't want a baby!

        The one purpose of having sexual intercourse is to conceive a baby.  That is why God created us this way.  Every time a couple partakes in this act, if they have any common sense at all, they are well aware of the potential outcome.  If a man or a women does not want a baby, DON'T HAVE SEX!  I myself had an unplanned pregnancy.  I was a teen mom.   I know how difficult that may be.  I chose to give birth to my child and thank God that he gave me this unexpected gift.  Every baby is a blessing and I wish all people felt the same way.    

 
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