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Topic : 07/06 Baby Wars

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Created on : Thursday, April 13, 2006, 01:22:17 pm

Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 04/21/06) Being a parent is hard enough, but what happens when Mom and Dad can't agree on how many kids to have, how to raise 'em and how to get ‘em to sleep? Sometimes, it can lead to an all-out baby war! Matt's baby battle ended up in front of a judge and made headlines. He was ordered to pay child support for the baby he had with his ex-girlfriend, but he says he shouldn't have to cough up the money because she told him she wasn't able to get pregnant, and he told her he didn't want to be a father. He, his attorney, and the director of the National Center for Men discuss the lawsuit they filed, known as “Roe v. Wade for Men,” arguing that men should have a constitutional right to avoid fatherhood. Next, Dan says even though he and his wife, Lisa, already have four children, he wants just one more. Lisa has been pregnant on and off for 11 years and says she's closed for baby business. Will Dr. Phil help Dan see Lisa's point that four is enough? Then, a frustrated husband is camping out on the roof of his house and living in a tent. He refuses to go back to his bedroom until his wife moves their kids out of their bed and starts paying more attention to him. Can Dr. Phil get him to come down the ladder? Plus, a sleep expert has a simple method for getting your child to sleep through the night. See the plan in action! Share advice and talk about the show here.

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zarrah7

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July 6, 2006, 9:08 am PDT

is there proof that she lied?

Quote From: slinnear

I agree with this young man. He's angry. Being a women and knowing a couple of women who did this to their significant other, he was played. Most of the audience consist of women and over 50% of women think men are at fault for everything. He is just looking for an escape. He's sorry, or just a typical man. No, he isn't a typical man. From what I gather from him, he is a responsible young man, trying to get his life to a point to where he was ready, financially and mentally, to care for a child/children with someone he wanted to spend the rest of his life with. With her not wanting to come on the show, shows quite a bit about her character. He was trapped. Men should have the same rights that women have when it comes to a child. The legel seems to think women get pregnant all by themselves and is the only one responsible for making decisions when it comes to a child. Not fair. I'm all for women rights. We are always struggling to have the equal rights of men in the work place and society. Now the wheels have turned and brought light to an area that has been debated quietly for years. Women, karma is a mug. One day it will come back and kick you in the butt. Wait for a man who loves you and not try to force him to be with you.

maybe she did lie but it IS possible she didn't. this guys said they started out having protected sex but eventually stopped using condoms, they both chose to do that he said it him self. he didn't say she made him do it with out condoms, he also didn't say she talked him into it. he did say she said she had a medical condition and was on birth conrol. my sister wasn't supposed to be able to carry children. she carried 4 but lost 1 because he was born prematurely. but she has 3 healthy boys hwne she wasn't even supposed to have 1! i know women have tricked men into it but it's not about them anymore it about the life they created together willingly or not.

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emalgab05

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July 6, 2006, 9:13 am PDT

should me be able to step out of father hood?

Its pretty sad that this guy can decide he wants to opt out of being a father ! I understand he did not want to nor did he have any desire to have children at this point of his life.

However the truth is the truth and it shall set you free !!! The truth is he DID NOT protect himself, he left it up to her. He left that door wide open to opportunity,chance and a little thing we call LIFE !
If he were that against it, he should have ensured that he used protection, knowing that nothing is 100 % but death itself. Unfortunate for him, if you play you pay. He is a finger pointer -blaming her and the system when he needs to own up to his own mistake, and accept it for what it is. He does not want to accept the 50% of the actions taken that night. I know science is great, but I do not think she was there alone. Im also sure she did not hold a gun to his head, and say "Oh no, no condom here, for my word is written in stone" ! Silly little man....

We all,do not have choices and options in what life brings, but you role with the punches and you move on. He is not looking at this poor kid as the miracle that he is, an extremely intricate map of me in there, but instead he is looking at him as an ATM machine spewting out his hard earned money! This has nothing to do with his rights or choices, this has to do with what most of us thrive on the greed of money ! Not family, not responsibility or honor but MONEY! Its a sad world we live in, and if he does not believe that this will bring out all of the other rats trying to evade paying for there choices, he is wrong. We are all so eager to sue someone just for looking at them crossed eyed ! We are bending the rules just to suit the fancy of the week. What happened to us ?

He may not want anything to do with this child now, but what happens when he does decide he wants to be a dad and somewhere in the back of his mind, he knows there is another part of him out there, what will he do then ? Will he try to open that door after so long ? No matter what court he brings this to, no matter how much he tries to deny this, the truth is, there IS a part of him out there. That will not change.

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sonia65

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July 6, 2006, 9:15 am PDT

fatherhood and babywars

I would like to tell some of you something that occured for about 5 months ago to one of my malefriends. There are men that really want to be a father for the child. This story is absurd in it´s own way. No-one did think that this could happen in Finland. YES, but it did! My friend was divorced from his wife and they got both custudy of the girl. Surprise, the mother is molesting the child, so as for the mother´s brother and other grown ups in the mother´s family. The child told her father and his girlfriend about the beatings and such and once she even called 911. her father started to take actions for getting the child to himself,but that she could meet with her mother when somebody from the social services was with them. They did fight in court and the mother won the first round. Well, we got back in action because the high court did look at this in another way and they jugded the child to live with her father. But surprise, her mother must had her idea about how it was going to end so she took, without the father´s knowing, the child and ran home to her family in Turkey. No one knows where they hide the girl at this moment and we all try to get the girl back to Finland and her father. The father is totally crushed. Although he tries to show a self-controlled himself to all,but you can tell he is in a lot of pain. The child loved to be with her father and his girlfriend. The father and the child has a specail bonding. I really hope this ends in happy tears and not in any other way. Turkey´s authorities has taken some action,but we know as little as in the beginning. They don´t know where she hides with the child. The child should be in school at this moment. Even in Turkey,but no. If you all think that fathers does not want to have babies,maybe some wont and others want. That´s today´s reality. Why fight about children´s payments after a divorce? Why not pay attencion to your husband in your relationship although you have children? Hire a nanny, go out to dinner or dancing, take time for each other. In a marriage there is not only the mum and the children, the father is also a part of it. So stop wining and start acting instead. that´s my advice to all of you. To be honest, I know this will get someone upset, but to tell the truth, I don´t care if you start hating me. It does not bother me. I just told you my oppinion on this and that´s it. Ofcourse some of you think:"Oh, what does she know about things like this, she´s single"..Let me tell you: I know everything about it. Trust me, I was married for one year to my daughter´s father and he made my life a living hell by abusing and such other cruel stuff. Thank you for your time.

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free2think

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July 6, 2006, 9:16 am PDT

bonding????????????/

Quote From: viewerncan

People want to discount the fact that carrying a baby inside your womb for 9 months as a small argument for the mother to have more say. Women may have been carrying and delivering babies since the beginning of time, but that doesn't mean that the experience is lessened in degree of importance. When a man actually carries a child, bonds with it within the womb and delivers it... then, he can have the right to decide if it should be put up for adoption or aborted even.

Face the fact that men have less of a right to decide these things because they have less of a connection to that growing life. They don't feel it moving, they don't have their stomach stretched and hips expanded to sacrafice their figure for the growth of a baby and they don't go through the labour, swollen breasts and healing. How can you ask for equal rights after the conception of a child when you don't have an equal connection at that point??

Sure women lie, manipulate and mislead.... but guess what?.... SO DO MEN!!! So we teach our men to protect themselves before conception occurs and then when they use the excuse ... "but she told me"... I have as little sympathy for that as I have for the old "But he told me... If I loved him I would have sex with him" etc. arguments.

Once again this is an argument for self responsibility. As for the child support issue... I say the child didn't choose its parents and both parents should be responsible for that child...like it or not. The only thing I would like to see changed is that courts enforce that responsibility fairly making sure that the finances of the mother and father are allotted equally and that the money actually goes to the childs needs.

Too bad we need courts to do that in the first place... It should just be a given!!

Shouldn't that be the real issue here? I am a mother I know what kind of bonding happens during pregnancy but how can you force that bonding on someone. Can you force a man to feel bonded to a child just because it carries his dna? Can you force a person to love just because they are related? If money werent the issue here what kind of arguments would there be then? I think in order to make this more fair we should make both parents pay child support regardless of who has custody, that money would go into an account for the child and only when receipts of a childs need are shown can money be withdrawn from the account. I just know too many moms living off their child

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supergirl8

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July 6, 2006, 9:17 am PDT

that is just plain pittiful

all men that think that they can push all the responsibilites off on the mom they try to say that tey should not have made the mistake of becoming pregnant. well the man has to stick his two cent in and pull it back put before ne thing that drastic can happen. if they would accutally think before they leap. hey would know that nothing is 100% accurate when it comes to reproduction and the mens rights are being violated yeah right they need to think about the mother and her rights and her responsiblilites to the the child this is not only to matt lorenand elizebeth but to all the folks out there who try to say my rights were violated by someone else you made the adult decision to not use protection so if you are deciding to file a law siut the nyou should sue yourself nothing is 100%effective all the time so even if you had used a condom and she would have gottin pregnant would you still be sue the courts your rights have nothing to do with it is because of your rights and own stupidity as to why he is in this mess so next time if you are not prepared to be a mother or a father use your rights to not have sex!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! your truly supergirl

ps .loren thank you for not aborting the child that might be the next president

or an angel looking to see how well you are doing on the face of the earth

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amethystic

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July 6, 2006, 9:17 am PDT

07/06 Baby Wars

Quote From: losnshel

This is sooo true! When there is a father who wants to be the sole caregiver for HIS child, why is it that the courts always favor the mother? The mother can be doing drugs, or worse, but the courts always say that the mother is the best thing for a child????

Just wanted to say that I personally know 3 Proud full time daddy's. :p

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sunsetgirl

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July 6, 2006, 9:18 am PDT

court laughter

I believe that if this goes any further in a acourt of law, matt and his attorney (where did this guy get his degree? Attorneys for dummies?) They will be laughed out of court.

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bigshow05

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July 6, 2006, 9:23 am PDT

Come ON!

What I don't understand is why he wore a condom part of the time. If he honestly thought she couldn't get pregnant, he wouldn't have worn a condom at all!!!!

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n2gzus

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July 6, 2006, 9:23 am PDT

07/06 Baby Wars

Quote From: zarrah7

maybe she did lie but it IS possible she didn't. this guys said they started out having protected sex but eventually stopped using condoms, they both chose to do that he said it him self. he didn't say she made him do it with out condoms, he also didn't say she talked him into it. he did say she said she had a medical condition and was on birth conrol. my sister wasn't supposed to be able to carry children. she carried 4 but lost 1 because he was born prematurely. but she has 3 healthy boys hwne she wasn't even supposed to have 1! i know women have tricked men into it but it's not about them anymore it about the life they created together willingly or not.

Who are you to judge this woman first off - you have no idea if she did or did not lie. That is NOT the issue. Both of them were equally responsible for what happens from sexual actions. BOTH. Her not coming on the show could very well be exactly what Dr. Phil said it was. The whole issue was over and why should she dredge it up even more. I would think most normal people would want it to be finally OVER and why should she HAVE to go on national television? It's her perogative to not have to be in the limelight just because this man wants his say. Let him have his say, but you cannot judge this woman because she does not want what he does. That is what this story is supposed to be about - right of the other. Equal rights. So give it to them both.
Secondly, no matter what or how, there IS a human life now created. It's called responsibility. It's called maturity. He was there, he had sex, he helped to create this child whether he wanted it or not. Just because he doesn't want to be a Father now, doesn't make the child go away. His behavior now only will harm this child. Too many people in this world feel unloved because anger and bitterness and irrisponsibility got in the way. Life happens. People get sick, die, injured, and "poop" just happens. We have to DEAL with it when it does. This young man is simply not wanting to deal with the fact he now has a human in his own image that he is responsible for. Let him go ahead and continue to fight for rights of a man vs woman when it comes to what to do with a woman who gets pregnant and the man does want it. That is his freedom to choose to do so. Let him do what he can for equality. I believe that issue and the reality of this human life here now is a separate thing altogether. He needs to be responsible and take care of this child financially to help the Mother equally. She probably didn't want it anymore then he did, but life is sacred. She choose to keep it, and although he couldn't partake in that choice he says, it no less makes that baby HIS. Sex creates life. He knew that before he had "casual" sex. No matter what, there is a child now. That is the ultimate concern and what he should do about it now. Again, let him fight for the right to not want it the next time he pulls his pants down, but as long as his penis is on his body and he controls it, he is responsible for what he creates with it.

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amethystic

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July 6, 2006, 9:24 am PDT

As a side note..

I just wanted to take this opportunity to further add to my original post in giving those of you interested a slight background from which I base my ideals.

At 17, in a bad relationship, where I showed lack of character judgement as well as emotional maturity... I had unprotected sex and concieved a child. Realizing that I would wind up as a Lifetime Movie statistic if I stayed with him, I left upon finding out I was pregnant. When prompted to obtain child support.. I DECLINED across the board. I didn't want it, I still don't want it. I prefer to raise my son alone and in a morally structured environment as opposed to a few lousy bucks richer and putting up with corrupting behavior.

Thanks.. :)

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