Topic : 07/06 Baby Wars

If you're driving down the road and run into the back of someone.  Weither you mean to or not you are still responsible for your actions. You have to pay for the damages.  Accidents happen, but you be an adult and be responsible for your actions.  If you don't want to be a father then why is it her responsiblity to take birth control?

 I have to disagree with Dr Phil on the subject of consenting adults (even young ones) not being able to discuss and set the terms for the sexual part of their relationship.  When I was 19 yrs old (I am 46 yrs old now) I dated long term a young man and we discussed before we became sexually active (I sat down with him at my insistence since I was the one who could become pregnant) what would happen in case of unplanned pregancy due to contraception failure.  We were both in college and financially and emotinally unable to care for a child should a preganancy occur in spite of our use of contraception. One thing we both agreed on--we both wanted marriage eventually, but no children. 

We both decided that consistent with our beliefs and I decided that my personal knoweldge of biology basics (I was in nursing school and understood that at conception their exists the potential for human life to develop but that human life had not begun because cells at that point are undifferentiated) that our best answer would be to recognize the signs of early pregnancy should our birth control fail and have an abortion within the first few weeks of any pregnancy that was unplanned.  My boyfriend agreed.  Only then did we have an intimate relationship.  My parents had given me as a child, as I grew up, increased  opportunities for both personal decision making and responsibility for those decisions and I think many parents today seek to overprotect their children --those young adults are then thrust into a world where they have little experience with making decisions or living with the outcomes of those decisions.  No wonder they cannot make good ones.  They have no basis for or skill for handling what is a very grown up relationship (a sexual relationship).

There are people who differ in their view, but  my partner and I  both felt that it was not right to bring a baby into the world within the context of little financial assets and ways to care for a child (we had no right to expect our parents would want to be primary caretakers again for any children we produced and were explicitly told so) . Also, to bring a baby  into a potential couple's life when neither of them want children in their futures is not a good idea for any concerned. If only one person wants that baby, thenthe person who wants the baby must be prepared to accept full responsiblity for any child produce and not count on help from an unwilling partner if that falls through. To have a baby and place it for adoption seemed odd to me--why bring one more child into the world where there are plenty of children already who need  homes and who are already here.  My partner and I did not feel that was  a good option either.  I  also think it is unrealistic to expect grown people to live a celibate life just because they don't want children in their future.

 Contraception failed in our case.
An early and legal abortion was the route we took  within the first 5 -6 weeks or so of pregnancy.  I do not advocate using abortion as simply an ongoing means of birth control, but also do not advocate bringing unwanted children into the world.  I do not hate children, but neither of us (all though we are not married to each other/we were for several years many years after this incident ) has ever had children.  In fact, as soon as I could find a physician who would perform a tubal ligation I had one at the age of 27.  As for my decision, it was made soberly and thoughtfully and I can truthfully say that I never had any doubt or misgivings.

  If anothers  views are different, then maybe the choices they make will be different in a case like this--maybe they wouldn't be.  I had no sleepless nights about my decision--but I had thought through my actions long before the worst case scenario happened and talked with my partner before we began any sexual relations.  No sexual relations would have taken place if we had not done so and we had not reached agreement--young as we were we had the intellecutal capacity to make a decision that was right for us. 

 I truly believe that the rights of the woman bearing the child are the rights that are paramount.  It has just been with the advent of modern medicine/antibiotics/newer medical procedures that having a baby has been approached in the way it seems to be approached now.  I remember my grandmother telling me that babies in the early part of the century (she was born in 1908) were not looked upon as a "blessed" event as much as something that could potentially take the life of the mother as death rates at the time of birth and infant mortality were so high.  This "baby as blessing" is a modern concept.  We need to really think through these things in modern society and come to better understanding as to rgihts and responsibilities.

The problem today is sex is dissociated from  responsible relationships and is often begun in childhood (teen years)--it is now considered just part of the night's "events" after a date.  Increasingly in our society,  children are seldom left to their own devices (within limits) so they increasingly have less and less opportunity to lay down a foundation of skills that encourage accountability and responsibility. Young people are not given many freedoms or advancing freedoms as they can handle them as children or much responsibility  for their decisions,so it is no surprise that this couple whose parents probably in good faith sheltered then and couriered them from activitiy to activtity as kids (but did not allow them to experience or learn through trials and the mistakes that increased personal freedom brings),  the skills necessary to make good choices as young adults.

 Middle class parents seek to shelter their kids  from perceive threats and harm rather than  promote their independence and critical thinking skills (which will in the long run help keep them from harm in much better ways), and you have young adults who are incapable of setting paramenters for relationships where they can discuss (and each can be held accountable) for the decisions they make. 

In this case in particular, if both parties truly agreed on the terms at the outset, then I think that the young woman has no claim on this young man.  But only, if the facts and decisions were mutual and it was explicitly said that  there will be no children produced from this relationship and contingency plans were agreed upon if conception took place.  If one person is hiding something (the state of their fertility or their ambivalence about terminating a remotely possible preganancy) or if the state of their fertility is truly unknown---then that changes the obligation.  If I were the young man, I would personally do one of two things---approach the mother and agree to relinquish all parental claim on this child (give the mother access to any family history of disease for future medical needs) and formalize this claim in court allowing her to go on with her and her child's life as if this were much like the case of artificial insemination.  This man is not father material and no one can force anyone to "be a good parent".   If these things were not explicitly discussed, he's responsible for at least monetary support of his offspring.  For it is the child that suffers in this type of ambiguity.

  If it is unclear  as to what each party brought to the bedroom in terms of openly discussed contingency plans or they were simply not discussed in case this woman's "sterility" changed( as it apparently did), If nothing was explicitly settled, the young man owes it to the child (not the mother--the child is innocent)  and I agree then  with Dr Phil--the young man is responsible for having protected himself and should minimally provide adequate child support for his offspring as without explicit protection from pregnancy  the situation is typically in this day and time is "caveat emptor"--buyer beware.

One has to be responsible for ones actions. Responsibility is a virtue that is sadly missing in todays society. Its always the other person. 

Saying I don't want to be a father, is not going to stop a pregnancy. What does he think happens when two people have unprotected sex. Sex makes babies and Matt has one. Maybe in his next relationship he should repeat it three times before having sex and this would stop a pregnancy. DUH! 

Ok well u may be part right.  Maybe she did not believe there was even a possibility that she could get pregnant.  If she recieved medical attention and the news she recieved was that she could not get pregnant than she probably thought it was true.  We usually tend to trust our doctors and what they say, after all they are professionals!!!  It is very unfortuante what happened to your husband but just because of his ex wife and her actions u cant stereo type all.  She never said she didnt want kids she thought it was impossible so there for if he didnt want kids then he should have protected himself by using a condom or choosing to not have sex at all!!!!!  If he trusted her the way he says he did then i have just one question.  Why did he use a condom in the begining?  I hope he loses this case and has to pay for the rest of his life because he made a poor decision and as they say "if u play with fire u will get burned" 

  

And her responsibility is to carry this child for 9 months, get up with this child at night getting little to no sleep while she is a baby and when she gets sick, having to raise this child for the next 18 years with a bitter resentful man. Sounds like a lot of responsibilities on her part too. 

You see to many : 

Abortion=murder 

Adoption= not on your life 

Dropping the baby off=read the second response. 

What happens when a guy says, "I can't have kids", and the girl still gets pregnant.  Is it the girl's fault then too?  It doesn't matter who says they can't have kids, it still takes two people to make a baby.  It is a mutual decision regardless between two people.  If he didn't want to have kids he should have used a condom or not had sex at all.  Birth control is not 100% fool proof either, but between the birth control and condom odds are slim.  You have to protect both men and women against pregnancy.  If it wasn't for the man, the woman would never get pregnant in the first place.  Even if it was artificial insemination, it still takes a sperm and an egg to make a baby.

there are people who are told everyday by professionals that they can not have children then when they least exspect it ,they are going to have a child even know they were told it was not possible. 

 

I had that happen to me and I have a delightful 7 year old who proved wrong the fertility specialist who pushed dye all around my ovaries and fallopian tubes and made the diagnosis that I was infertile.  BTW-the specialist still thinks he was right, that I was infertile when he told me that but that my body had cleared the blockage itself. Regardless, I was thrilled with the "mistake":) unfortunately not everyone is. 

Hi, I am a mother of one and my baby was NOT planned.  The father and I had discussed and known that we were too young to have children and were definately not ready.  After I had gotten pregnant we had to take responsiblity for our previous actions and become parents.  Not once did the father (my husband now) once say to me that he was not responsible because he was too young or not ready.  He is a great father and we both had to grow up and now we have a very beautiful 16 month old boy.  I am so mad at Matt for being a dead beat dad.  No matter what he had helped bring a child into this world and because of that he needs to start being a responsible parent.  He don't have to be a father but I definately think that he should be paying child support.  Even if the female is on birth control, you can still wear a condom for extra precautions in case she did lie about the pill.