Message Boards

Topic : 07/06 Baby Wars

Number of Replies: 7225
New Messages This Week: 0
Last Reply On:
Created on : Thursday, April 13, 2006, 01:22:17 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 04/21/06) Being a parent is hard enough, but what happens when Mom and Dad can't agree on how many kids to have, how to raise 'em and how to get ‘em to sleep?  Sometimes, it can lead to an all-out baby war! Matt's baby battle ended up in front of a judge and made headlines. He was ordered to pay child support for the baby he had with his ex-girlfriend, but he says he shouldn't have to cough up the money because she told him she wasn't able to get pregnant, and he told her he didn't want to be a father. He, his attorney, and the director of the National Center for Men discuss the lawsuit they filed, known as “Roe v. Wade for Men,” arguing that men should have a constitutional right to avoid fatherhood. Next, Dan says even though he and his wife, Lisa, already have four children, he wants just one more. Lisa has been pregnant on and off for 11 years and says she's closed for baby business. Will Dr. Phil help Dan see Lisa's point that four is enough? Then, a frustrated husband is camping out on the roof of his house and living in a tent. He refuses to go back to his bedroom until his wife moves their kids out of their bed and starts paying more attention to him. Can Dr. Phil get him to come down the ladder? Plus, a sleep expert has a simple method for getting your child to sleep through the night. See the plan in action! Share advice and talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.

More July 2006 Show Boards.

As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 21, 2006, 5:14 am PDT

one more thing...

I am a parent of 2 (planned) little girls.  I don't consider my respnsibilities "over" when they reach 18.  Parenthood is not an 18 year commitment, it is a LIFELONG commitment.  I will be there for mine until the day I die, not until they are of legal voting age.  For the parents who insist upon spouting off about the 18 year deadline, well, good for you I suppose, but I feel bad for the kids.
 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 21, 2006, 5:22 am PDT

Distorted Thinking

Wow Matt, how fortunate for you that you were able to find someone to represent you that had the same distorted way of thinking as you do.  

   

Whether or not you like the fact you are a father...WHICH YOU ARE...I'm sure you enjoyed all the pleasures leading up to the conception.  Why is it that sex is okay as long as it doesn't come with any sort of responsibilities?  You were supposedly dooped...BOO HOO...shut your pity party down and start getting down to business.  Be the father that this little girl needs and deserves.    

   

I get so tired of the man's mentality that their responsibility and accountability ends at conception.  Your sperm...Your responsibility, simple math.  Worried about your financial future?  Well, let's see...how much would that 1 little condom have cost?  You wouldn't have had to worry about college expenses, diapers, etc.  just one little condom.    

   

Be a man...step up to the plate and be a father.  Anyone can be a sperm donor...it takes alot more than that to be a parent.    

   

I hope the judge that hears your case (if there is one that will) sees this for what it really is...another deadbeat dad who wants to walk out on their responsibility and sticks it to you BIG TIME!!!!  I think you're getting off kind of easy at $500.00/mth.  Heck, that's not even child care.  

   

I hope from now on you learn that if you can't keep your pants on you will splurge for that condom.  

   

   

 

Message Emote
blank
April 21, 2006, 5:23 am PDT

fair is fair

First, I do not believe in abortion.  But, if women have the right to have an abortion or give a child up for adoption and decide not to be a parent then why should men not have the same right?  If a man says I don't want this baby abort it, but the woman chooses to keep it then let her.  Now, all this said, I don't think that either of them have that right to abort it  but if women want to have that choice decision then why shouldn't men have it too?  Women, fair is fair!   

  

PS I am a woman. 

 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 21, 2006, 5:23 am PDT

I agree with Dr. Phil

I'd just like to say that I agree with Dr. Phil.  You shouldn't be having sex in an uncommitted relationship if you aren't willing to be responsible for the consequences of your actions.  Whether she said she could get pregnant or not, you chose to have sex with her, you chose to have unprotected sex and a beautiful little girl is the result.  I read a comment from someone who said the mother carries the child for 9 months and she's done, while the father pays for 18 years.  This man is paying $500 a month to help support his child.  Have you looked into what raising a child costs?  The $500 will certainly help but it by no means begins to cover the costs the mother will have in raising her little girl.  I feel for the father but if he didn't want to be in this situation, he could have kept his pants on.  It's that simple. 

 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
hopeful
April 21, 2006, 5:28 am PDT

What a can of worms...

Quote From: jayriddle

Uh, hold on there stupormom.   Divorced or unmarried men like Matt Dubay are on the hook for 18+ years of child support when a woman has a kid.  How the heck do you think a man comes up with $500 per month for 18 years?  Here a clue -- he uses his BODY to earn that money.   If he refuses, off to jail!

Women, on the other hand, have completed their physical burden after 9 months.  Let's see, 9 months vs. 18 years -- who's got the greater burden?  Who bears greater consequences?

Women get the choices, men get the responsibilities, and that's just how the women want to keep things.  It's about time somebody stood up for equal reproductive rights for men!

Wow, Jayriddle, you sure did open up a can of worms when you said that women are done with their physical burden after nine months. You really have no idea. Just for starters, there's all the post-partum recovery. That includes healing of the uterus, any tears or incisions, hemorrhoids, wearing sanitary pads for as much as six weeks and in some cases longer. There's breastfeeding and if there's anything that can make even the most loving earth-mother feel functional, breastfeeding will do it. Big old wet splotches developing on the front of your shirt/dress just because you hear a baby cry in the next aisle of the grocery store or even on a radio or television. Changes to hair and skin that take years to go away, if ever. Then there's that sleep deprivation thing. Now that's a surefire way to put your body on the line. There's all those nightly feedings, staying up late to get laundry done at night, getting back to work even though you're tired and/or conflicted. There's carrying around the baby, there's post-partum development of tenosynovitis, and then there's the half-size changes in shoe size. Physically, it is a whole other experience to go from a 25 inch waistline to 62 and then work to get back down. Baking cookies late at night because "I promised that you would, Mom" or cooking some ethnic meal because "we're studying Spain and I forget to tell you that I signed up to bring paella."  

  

OMG, I could go on and on forever but I have to stop because I am already smiling with nostalgia. Jewish men thank God everyday for not making them women. Why? Because it is just so much to handle. And why I am I smiling? Because the great magic for so many women is that there is such an abundance of love and joy throughout all these physical burdens. The emotions and attachments to one's child are incomparable. That is true for many women and men. It may be different in form and manifestation but the emotions run just as deep and just as strong for most moms and dads. 

  

But please, don't lecture to women about the physical burdens of having children.  

 
User Mood
Mellow

Message Emote
blank
April 21, 2006, 5:29 am PDT

babies babies babies

to say that people should not have sex if they dont want children is unreasonable. that is never going to happen. however, if you dont want children, then perhaps try using one of the many forms of birth control we now have very accessable to us everyday.  if this young man was so concerned, then he wouldve protected himself.  NEVER take anyone elses word on something so life changing. protect yourself.   i feel sorry for the child involved when she grows up knowing her father totally closed the door on her. i know that feeling, unfortunatly. 
 

Message Emote
blank
April 21, 2006, 6:03 am PDT

responsibility

I believe that both the man and the woman should be responsible for a baby no matter what conditions it is born under.  However, if you want to make these decisions under todays standards then, no this man should not pay.  Why do people believe that if a man can have sex then he should bear the responsibility but if a woman has sex she should get to choose?  Women, if you don't want a baby then don't have sex!!!  It is that simple.  We say this to men but not to women all the time.  Aren't we taking the double standard the other direction now?
 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 21, 2006, 6:12 am PDT

Consistency

Quote From: lieven

You're exactly right. Its sexist to claim that women should only get choices and men only get consequences. That view, in fact, infantalises women, so its really the ultimate not just in 

misandry, but in misogyny, too. 

Granted, men and women cannot be fuly equal in this area, that is, if a man wants a child, he does need to procure a willing woman who wnats to do that with him. That should be the standard for both men and for women, even though women can, biologically speaking, go it alone, after they 

get some sperm. But, as with many other htings, that we can do a thing, does not mean that we should do it. The data on the harms to children of being made deliberately fatherless is massive, 

and unrefutable. If some man hating women say " we don't need men ", then I say back, " fine, 

do so without our sperm and money, too. Thats... consistant ". 

Maybe we should remain "consistent", and remember that a child, is not a material object to "haggle with".  

If you decide to have sex with a partner...everything is at risk. Everything goes out the window. You are at risk emotionally, spiritually, physically. It is very naive and lazy to say that you "trust" that the other person is taking birth control, or can't have kids. It is the same idea where the person says, "Oh, no, I don't have aids..." and wouldn't you know, the partner finds out after having unprotected sex that they themself now have aids. Who is at fault there? 

When you CHOOSE to have sex with another human being, if something comes of that, good or bad, you no longer have choices. You have responsibility. And you must fulfill your responsibility, not just sweep it under the carpet. Men AND women. Women who abort are just as guilty...because a child is not a choice. A child is a human being. Children deserve to be created in love, and have love expressed to them.  

Just because "you are not ready for a child", well, then you certainly weren't ready for sex either. Men and women need to grow up and stop acting like 5 year olds because they didn't get their way.  

Be better than that. Set an example. When you set a good example, others will follow. That's consistent 

 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 21, 2006, 6:12 am PDT

Unbelievable

I heard about this case awhile back when it first hit the headlines, and my initial reaction was:  this guy is either totally naive or a total jerk.  I mean, come ON.  Most of us have heard stories about men who wind up as fathers after their girlfriends tell them, "Oh I can't get pregnant, I'm on the pill."  It's gotta be the oldest trick in the book.  Surely it must've occurred to Matt that this could possibly happen to him too?  I also learned way back in 6th grade sex ed class that abstainance is the ONLY 100% guarantee against pregnancy.  Perhaps Matt wasn't paying attention back then?  

  

I appreciate Dr. Phil devoting time to this issue on his show and asking this guy (and his lawyer) some hard questions.  I don't know what kind of loophole in the law they're going to use to back their case, but when I was taking tort law classes as part of my degree, we learned that mitigation of damages is a huge part of the plaintiff's case.  He's got to prove that he did everything possible in his power to minimize his risk.  If Matt had been wearing a condom, then yeah, maybe he'd have an argument...but he wasn't.  He didn't take any action, he just sat back and said, "Oh, well, I told her I didn't want to be a father."  As if he had no control over it.  

  

As far as women having all the post-conception choices...hmmm, I wonder, if Matt had been the one who was pregnant and carrying that child, would he have made the choice to terminate?  Or give the child up for adoption?  Dr. Phil was so right when he said that we don't know what we're going to do in a situation until we're faced with it. Sometimes things look unfair from the outside, but you just try walking a mile in their shoes...  

  

I think the biggest tragedy of all is this child who will grow up knowing that her father never cared for her.  She didn't ask to be born, she didn't sign up for this, yet she is paying the price.  I hope and pray that someone will come into her life who is a true father figure.  Matt is right about one thing, he's not her father.  He's just a sperm donor.  

  

Finally, I love how Matt's lawyer commented that Matt is a great guy and will be a great father one day.  Yeah, that's assuming there are any women left out there who would want to have a sexual relationship with a guy who is now *infamous* for shirking responsibility and rejecting his own child.  Maybe there is justice in the world after all.  :-)   

 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
April 21, 2006, 6:18 am PDT

Not the best pick up line

Quote From: jayriddle

Uh, hold on there stupormom.   Divorced or unmarried men like Matt Dubay are on the hook for 18+ years of child support when a woman has a kid.  How the heck do you think a man comes up with $500 per month for 18 years?  Here a clue -- he uses his BODY to earn that money.   If he refuses, off to jail!

Women, on the other hand, have completed their physical burden after 9 months.  Let's see, 9 months vs. 18 years -- who's got the greater burden?  Who bears greater consequences?

Women get the choices, men get the responsibilities, and that's just how the women want to keep things.  It's about time somebody stood up for equal reproductive rights for men!

When a "woman has a kid"? 

  

How the heck do you think the "woman HAD the kid"????? 

  

It' s about time someone grew common sense and realized even though it may be popular and "in style" to sleep around, both parties bear the responsibility. 

  

Women get choices they shouldn't have, choices they are not qualified to make when it comes to babies and abortion. 

  

It's time someone stood up and spoke up for the kids 

 
First | Prev | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | Next | Last