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Topic : 07/06 Baby Wars

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Created on : Thursday, April 13, 2006, 01:22:17 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 04/21/06) Being a parent is hard enough, but what happens when Mom and Dad can't agree on how many kids to have, how to raise 'em and how to get ‘em to sleep?  Sometimes, it can lead to an all-out baby war! Matt's baby battle ended up in front of a judge and made headlines. He was ordered to pay child support for the baby he had with his ex-girlfriend, but he says he shouldn't have to cough up the money because she told him she wasn't able to get pregnant, and he told her he didn't want to be a father. He, his attorney, and the director of the National Center for Men discuss the lawsuit they filed, known as “Roe v. Wade for Men,” arguing that men should have a constitutional right to avoid fatherhood. Next, Dan says even though he and his wife, Lisa, already have four children, he wants just one more. Lisa has been pregnant on and off for 11 years and says she's closed for baby business. Will Dr. Phil help Dan see Lisa's point that four is enough? Then, a frustrated husband is camping out on the roof of his house and living in a tent. He refuses to go back to his bedroom until his wife moves their kids out of their bed and starts paying more attention to him. Can Dr. Phil get him to come down the ladder? Plus, a sleep expert has a simple method for getting your child to sleep through the night. See the plan in action! Share advice and talk about the show here.

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April 21, 2006, 3:18 pm PDT

Matt - Sorry U R a Dad

I never heard Matt or Dr Phil mention this pregnancy was one completed behind Matt's back, or done as a secret.   

  

What I did hear was this:  

  • His former girlfriend was told she could not get pregnant due to a medical condition by a doctor
  • His former girlfriend did take birth control pills in order to prevent a birth
  • Matt used a condom a "FEW" times
  • Matt told former girlfriend he had no desire/need/presence to be a Dad at this time

   

Matt appeared to be an intelligent mid 20 year old male.  I am sure Matt knows if I DO NOT WANT TO BE A DAD, I NEED....I NEED...I NEED to ensure this does not occur.  

Matt had the choice to use TWO condoms every time he had sexual intercourse, go to a prostitute for sexual pleasure, have a vasectomy, or use his own body to give himself sexual pleasure, not involving another being.  Matt CHOSE to ASSUME the condition his former girlfriend was told she had and HER TAKING BIRTH CONTROL PILLS, would PROTECT HIM from becoming a Dad.  

   

Now I ask you, when you buy a house or a car, and the previous owner ENSURES you, that all large ticket items are ok, and will not break down, or need to be replaced...do you ASSUME this is the truth?  Or do most people in order to ensure that your house is covered for unexpected costs, or your car, etc. as a RESPONSIBLE PERSON, carry INSURANCE to ENSURE you don't have to down the line, pay out of your own pocket any large type expenses.  RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE have this mind set in all aspects of their lives.  I have taught both of my 20 something daughters, if you do not wish to get pregnant, then take the proper precautions and make sure your partner does his part too.  Have him wear 2 condoms if you REALLY dont want a baby and you absolutely cant say NO to having sex.  

   

Like many others have said on this message board, if you don't want to make a baby, keep your male making sperm apparatus in your pants all the time, get a vasectomy, or wear TWO condoms EVERYTIME you engaged in the sexual act.  This way no one gets a surprise!! NO ONE!!  

  

And for all others on this board that are saying, a woman no longer carries a "BURDEN" after the nine months......I have HIGHLY suggested to many couples, when your child is about 8 weeks or so, you the Mom, needs to go on a 7 day vacation without any phone contact with the Dad and child....then again when the child is 6 years old, and  again when he/she has a new sibling.  SEVEN DAYS AND SEVEN NIGHTS of the Dad doing it ALL...has tended to change 99% of these males attitude.   

   

Most real MEN, admit with love...that they could not do what many Moms do everyday for 21 years or more.  A career, taking total care of children (including dirty diapers and vomiting at 2:00am, 4:00am and still go to work) cooking, shopping, helping with homework and long term projects, making appts for dental care, dr visits, haircuts, buying the birthday presents for both sides of the family, buying Christmas gifts...while all he does is go to work 50 hours a week, cut the grass....and sometimes does the Sunday BBQ.  

   

So, until you walk a mile in her shoes (or for 7 days and 7 nights) dont say something you have not experienced.  

 
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April 21, 2006, 3:18 pm PDT

ohhhh boy !

Quote From: nell79

Who said she lied? My take on it was that she thought she couldn't conceive. She was wrong, obviously. I don't care who's right or wrong. This child is the victim here. The child is the only one who is 100% innocent. What's done is done. The child is still here. There's no going back now. If he definitely did not want children, then he shouldn't have been having sex. That's the ONLY guarantee in this life. Now it's time to step up to the plate for that child.  

   

I'm tired of seeing people not wanting to take responsibility for their actions, whether they be male or female. If he doesn't step up to the plate and be a father, it will come back to bite him later. When he dies, is he going to say, "Boy, I'm sure glad I wasn't supportive to that child..."? I think not.  

   

Whatever decision he makes, it will have an impact on that child. One could only hope it will be a positive impact.  

Ohh Boy ! I hear all of you in this matter, but with that if a mother does not wnat the child she can give the child up, relinguishing her rights emotionally, physically and financially, why should the father not be allowed to do this ! I would love for my childrens father to do this, not only is he a bad influence who hasn't seen them on over 5 years ( my ooldest daughter will be 6 in June) he has never provided one red cent to either of them. Sometimes, getting rid of Dad is the best thing for the child !
 
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April 21, 2006, 3:18 pm PDT

04/21 Baby Wars

Quote From: inthenest

The trouble is that women have an instinctive NEED to nurture. Men do not have this strong natural instinct; after all it is women who carry in pregnancy and breastfeed their babies; they are designed that way. The trouble is when a woman is so desperate to be a mother that she tricks an unwilling man into getting her pregnant . She should know that in so doing she will have to assume full responsibility for the baby. Then she can make up her mind whether it is worth it all. If a woman gets pregnant by mistake, which happens all the time, the father should have the right to refuse to support the baby if the mother will not either abort or give the baby up for adoption. I told my son as he got into his teens that as a 'man' he has to be so careful because the woman has all the rights. I told him that if a girl he has sex with gets pregnant he can be saddled for 21 years supporting that child; a BIG price to pay when he has ZERO power once a girl is pregnant. It is not fair but until the laws change and give equal rights to our boys, they are 'screwed'!

PBS aired a show last October 21st called "Breaking the Silence, Children's Stories", about the problem of too many abusive fathers winning custody. The problem is though, acording to the US Dept of HHS, 40% of child abuse victims were perpetrated against by their mothers, compared to 18% offended by their fathers. I say too many abusive MOTHERS get sole custody!. 

  

On the day the PBS story was advertised to me, the top headlines in Cleveland were a woman convicted of murdering her baby and burning her house to cover, and another woman dropping her newborn (UC still attached) into a wastebasket at a mall. Four days later, airdate, the news stories were a woman in California throwing her 3 children off a pier, and a Dayton area woman who gave her child to a gypsy "uncle" to transport to dad in California, "Uncle" disappeared with the kid for two months before the mom reported the missing child. 

  

So much for the superiority of the female "nurturing instinct" 

 
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April 21, 2006, 3:19 pm PDT

04/21 Baby Wars

Quote From: txmomthree

Roe vs. Wade for Men? 

LOL! Give me a break! 

If you don't want a child, then don't have sex!  

Use protection, even if you think you can trust her. Better yet, just wait until your married.  

If you cannot control yourself and choose to act like an animal, then get yourself fixed! 

And if you choose to be selfish and do not want to father a the child, just sign your rights away. 

I am tired of this pathetic attitude. Oh you see I want to have sex but I don't want the responsibility or feel guilty if I become a parent against my will and don't the child in my life, even though I did choose to have sex. 

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. This poor child, the history it will have. My dad didn't want me, so he tried to make a law out of me. The a** couldn't just sign his rights away.  

Hey Matt, do you want some cheese with that WHINE!  

Unfreaking believable.  

I was a teenage mom. I was eighteen went I brought my son into this world. I though about abortion even though it was against my morals. But then I though, why should I make this child inside me pay because of my poor decision? He didn't ask to be here, what do he do deserve murder? And put the murder thing aside, I realized that if I went through abortion or adoption, that I was running away from my mistake. I dealt with my consequence.  And I give my child the love and support he needs and he is a very healthy kid. Why doesn't anybody else want to do that? Has America (except us good few, we know who we are) become that self-centered? 

  

  

  

Boo hoo a woman doesn't want to have a child then she should be able to have an abortion right???  She should've used protection or not had sex as you say right?  If she cannot control herself and chooses to act like an animal then she should get herself fixed!! right??  Does she want some cheese with that whine!!!  See it goes both ways.
 

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April 21, 2006, 3:19 pm PDT

Keep Your Penis in Your Pants

This is absolutely the stupidest thing I have ever heard. You CANNOT just say you do or do not want to be a parent. If he was not ready to be a parent he should have kept it in his pants. If anything he should have used a condom. Look at that beautiful baby who has to suffer because the father is being a jack-ass. Step up to the plate and take responsibilites for what your actions have caused. 

  

  

Julie 

Canada 

 

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April 21, 2006, 3:19 pm PDT

He's seriously getting off easy.

Quote From: gon2maui

What happened to the law of natural consequences? You have unprotected sex the natural consequence is a baby. No brainer. By the way, there are plenty of people that have surprise babies and are wonderful parents. He needs to step up to the plate, take responsibility for this beautiful little girl and stop crying. Hes getting off easy for $500.00 a month.
I hope this increases with inflation.
 
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April 21, 2006, 3:19 pm PDT

You made a choice when you had unprotected sex!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am a mother of a 22 year old son.  When I had the facts of life talks I put emphasis on the important reasons to use a condom, of course one of the reasons was for protection from STD's, and also to prevent an unwanted pregnancy.  I told him to use a condom even if the girl said she was on birth control, or said that she was disease free or any other reason such as claiming that she was unable to become pregnant, or had never been with anyone before so she could not possibly have an STD.  I told him no matter how much he loved the girl, the most important thing was to protect hmself with a condom.  If my son was to become a Father, and he did not use a condom then I would expect him to take full responsibility for the consequence of having unprotected sex.  If a man or a woman does not wish to become a parent then they need to take all precautions to prevent an unwanted pregnancy!!!!  I feel that if you do not take all precautions and you become a parent then you need to take responsibility for the child!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  
 
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April 21, 2006, 3:19 pm PDT

04/21 Baby Wars

  I agree with Matt.  I am a female and a mom.  I live in Colorado where we have a law (?) where a woman can have a baby up to a certain age ( infant) and just drop it off at a hospital or Fire Station - no questions asked.  So, where are the father's rights?  Understand - this is to keep the unwanted baby safe and unharmed, etc.   

  

Having told Matt that she could not get pregnant and that she was on the pill - should leave him in the clear.  I understand if the pill failed, than he probably would have stepped up to the responsibility.  There really needs to be a law to help protect the men who are tricked - or better birth control for them.  Condoms are so ancient!   

  

In her defense, I'm sorry she has to raise the baby by herself.  But when she decided to go through the pregnancy knowing that Matt was not going to be a participant, then it should have been "end of story".  He made his decision quite clear. 

  

Just my opinion.   

 
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April 21, 2006, 3:19 pm PDT

He HAD a choice.

Let me first say, this man is ridiculous! He says it's unconstitutional for a woman to be given all the choices in how to deal with an unplanned pregnancy? He had a choice to use a condom, and he MADE THE CHOICE to have unprotected sex. THAT was his choice. Yes, his partner got pregnant, and though he didn't want the child, she had the RIGHT to carry her to term, and choose to raise her. No, he doesn't have any choice in the matter when he refuses to even take responsibility for his actions. The fact is that it is HER body, therefore it is HER choice. Who does he think he is? He thinks it should have been his choice to have her carry their baby to term, and force her to give it away just because he wants a choice? I don't think so. He thinks that a man should have a choice to make a woman have an abortion? That's ridiculous. His lawyer is delusional if he thinks he'll win this case! If so, every man following him will be able to get out of paying child support if he thinks he "didn't have a choice". And what if the man is given a choice? Is it going to become the MAN's right to choose now? A woman will have no control over her own body because some man doesn't want to take responsibility for his actions? Ridiculous. This guy needs to step up to the plate, take responsibility, and care for his child.  

 
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April 21, 2006, 3:20 pm PDT

04/21 Baby Wars

Quote From: melissag

I am a woman, I am a mother, having said that, I know there are many devious women out there. Now, I am not classifying all women, but, there are women who elect to get pregnant for mere entrapment. Currently, my husband and I are in this boat. Prior to my husband and my courtship he had a brief relationship with a woman. They had sex together and created a baby. First off, my husband because of medical reasons was led to believe he could not conceive children, this women said she was on birth control and stated she was to old to have children. During our relationship prior to us getting married she came forward stating he was the father of her child. She never disclosed this to any of us, her pregnancy or the fact that there was a possibility of him being the father although she swears she did. Even on legal documents she stated, she never intended to disclose this baby, she was forced to when she fell on hard times and needed assistance from the state she was residing in. She also tried to lie on her application checking a box stating no children. It was found that my husband was in fact the father through paternity testing. At this point, both parties had agreed prior they did not know where there relationship would lead and children were not an option. Now, my husband is forced to pay child support for a child she will not even acknowledge as her father. Court Ordered child support exceeds over half of his actual disposable income. Our state also gave her retroactive child support even through all this documentation that put him in the arrears automatically for appx 1 year of support. During this time, he was also injured on the job and only receiving 66 2/3 percent of his wages, then was abruptly cut off from these weekly wages. We have petitioned the court at least 5 times for some relief and to no avail, we have lost every time, even with medical documentation. The law states, that when a parent is behind in child support it is not modifiable or at the discretion of the Judges. However, in our case, Judges were never used, they use, hearing officers that actually work for the State Revenue Departments. This child support obligation is not only ruining our lives, but also ruins the lives of many others. The term Dead Beat dad, really should be reviewed in its entirety. I say this because with a man, father, having no rights, they are already behind in support payments, obligations and such even when the situation was manipulated. How will they ever get ahead. This has been a battle in our life for now almost 2 years, leaving my husband at the end of the work week with less than $100.00 from his paycheck. How does one truly survive on this pay without neglecting his family, children etc for having to obtain a second job. I believe men, fathers, anyone, have rights and should be equal. Women fight everyday for equal rights, equal opportunity employment. If we make our bed, we need to sleep in it ! If this woman or any woman chose to have an abortion, my husband, any man, would not have the right to say, choose or demand different, but because a woman out of wedlock chooses to have a child, she hunts the father like a hungry tiger. This is unfair, unlawful especially if the man was not willing, able to care, either financially or emotionally for a child. I mean really, what is better, having a man who cannot pay, be there...or having a man who is man enough to say this is a task I did not want, you knew I did not want....To say that the man should be the only one to "protect" during sex is absurd. As a woman, we have much more to our disposal that is more precise in the way of avoiding unwanted, out of wedlock children, than a man. Condoms break, wearing a condom is his word against her word, for women there are birth control pills, injections, diaphragms, implants. A man has 2 choices, a condom, a vasectomy ? To say that a man should have surgical intervention because he is having sex and not ready for a baby at that very moment, is like telling a woman she should have her tubes tied as an unwed woman having sex but hopes to have children in the future. The fact is, no-one can or ever will be able to stop sex in unwed women, men, teens etc. Maybe, just maybe, if women were held accountable as well for there actions we wouldn't be in this baby boom generation of babies having babies, single mothers, dead beat dads and unwanted and truly unnecessary pregnancies. If the father continues taking the blame, because he was so cursed with the sperm that fertilizes the egg than this just tells women we can sit, spit out babies, and collect a check and we truly wonder why the world is going bankrupt ? Please understand, I am also on the other side of the coin, I am a mother of 3 children from a previous marriage. There father is nothing other than a dead beat. He is true meaning of dead beat. He is in more trouble than he is ever out of it. I have never received one dime of support for my children. To me, you can't get nothing from nothing ! It is also my responsibility to care for my children, financially, emotionally, physically, morally etc. I know this man cannot do any of these things in his current state. I also have to take responsibility for the fact that I helped create these beautiful children. but in my eyes, I would rather take full responsibility than allow a man who is not fit to care for my children. What is the lesser of 2 evils ? I am a firm believer in everyone having rights. Even a purple polka dotted man who fell from the moon and landed on this earth. This is America, the land of the free, where choice is given to every one of us but not the man. Now, would I agree if a man and woman are married having sex and suddenly become pregnant. No, why ? Because as man and wife, our duties are far greater and different to each other. We are suppose to know each other, wants and needs, it is our duty to communicate and compromise with each other as man and wife, brief encounters, short term relationships this is not the case. I do believe safe sex should be used....I do believe that somewhere as a society we have focused so much on practicing safe sex for STD related issues that everyone forgot , YOU CAN STILL GET PREGNANT. When is the last time you seen a commercial advertising a condom and the prevention of pregnancy, it is all about STD's, maybe everyone needs to be reminded , have it in there face ! Maybe we should get back to basics, like when I was in school and an assignment we had in HomeEch was to pretend play with an egg as a baby, boy, we did not dare drop that egg ! We had to take it everywhere, find a babysitter if we wanted to go out....whatever happened to home ech and the basics ?
What ever happened to abstinence..if you dont know the person well enough to know if he or she  will do what they say or stick around then maybe just maybe sex should not be a topic. Kids dont need to be told ok heres how you get around pregnancy and STDs when you have sex and then complain when their are unplanned pregnancys or diseases. The basics would include abstinience when it was seen as immoral to have sex and babies outside of marriage.
 
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