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Topic : 07/06 Baby Wars

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Created on : Thursday, April 13, 2006, 01:22:17 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 04/21/06) Being a parent is hard enough, but what happens when Mom and Dad can't agree on how many kids to have, how to raise 'em and how to get ‘em to sleep?  Sometimes, it can lead to an all-out baby war! Matt's baby battle ended up in front of a judge and made headlines. He was ordered to pay child support for the baby he had with his ex-girlfriend, but he says he shouldn't have to cough up the money because she told him she wasn't able to get pregnant, and he told her he didn't want to be a father. He, his attorney, and the director of the National Center for Men discuss the lawsuit they filed, known as “Roe v. Wade for Men,” arguing that men should have a constitutional right to avoid fatherhood. Next, Dan says even though he and his wife, Lisa, already have four children, he wants just one more. Lisa has been pregnant on and off for 11 years and says she's closed for baby business. Will Dr. Phil help Dan see Lisa's point that four is enough? Then, a frustrated husband is camping out on the roof of his house and living in a tent. He refuses to go back to his bedroom until his wife moves their kids out of their bed and starts paying more attention to him. Can Dr. Phil get him to come down the ladder? Plus, a sleep expert has a simple method for getting your child to sleep through the night. See the plan in action! Share advice and talk about the show here.

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April 21, 2006, 9:04 pm PDT

You said what I was thinking.

Quote From: thinker22

  

This issue is horribly misunderstood!!!! 

  

Two parents exist, and so does a baby.  (AFTER the birth.)  Assuming the relationship between them will remain adversarial: 

  

Currently, what can the woman do? 

  • Give the child up for adoption (without identifying or informing the father)
  • Surrender the baby to a "safe house" (without even giving her OWN name, let alone the father's)
  • Keep the child, and collect child support
  • Keep the child, without collecting child support, but retaining the right to collect later, even back child support for many years, on her whim.
  • Petition the court to terminate his parental rights.

And what can the man do? 

  • Pay, and stay away by choice.
  • Pay, and be kept away in spite of his desire to actively parent.  (It happens all the time, and the fact that he wasn't present at the delivery, which is in the mother's control, is used in court to award her primary custody, regardless of the fitness of either.  The mother is also legally presumed as primary custodian until a court finds otherwise.)
  • Fight for rights and access.  This is an uphill battle.  Even after a court award for visitation, a mother as primary custodian can make this very difficult, and even detrimental to the child.

It is this simple: After a child is born, a woman can relinquish parenthood, and a man can not.  After the birth, both parents are "similarly situated", and unequal treatment is blatant.  "Her body" is irrelevant. 

  

Current law is unconstitutional.  Even if it was not, "stay away and pay" is immoral. 

I'm surprised I have the opinion I do, given my strong feelings of personal responsibiltiy.  I have never liked the idea that a woman can makes choices about an unplanned pregnancy.....just because it's a "choice".  The entire justification for abortion is that a woman shouldn't be FORCED to have a baby she doesn't want..  The pro-choicers strongly advocate a woman has a right to an abortion...and instead of being "pro-abortion"...abortion being a rather gruesome process...we sugar-coat the term and call it "choice". 

I've heard that Roe v Wade is poor case law and now I understand what that means.  If a woman has a right to terminate an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy because she doesn't want to be a mother, why doesn't a man have a "right" to "choose" not to be a father?  Where's the equality there?

I'm not saying that men shouldn't be responsible for their children, I'm saying that giving unilateral choice to women and none to men is not just.  If a woman wants to abort or adopt-out her baby, she can make that choice on her own....even if the man wants to keep and raise the baby himself. 

Men should have a say in the destiny of their babies...not just be treated as a wallet.
 
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April 21, 2006, 9:06 pm PDT

04/21 Baby Wars

Quote From: dandylions

I am with you on this. The girl told him she couldn't get pregnant. He told her to begin with that he wasn't ready for children. I was with a man that has three children and didn't want anymore. I was well aware that he didn't want anymore kids. We had unprotected sex and I got pregnant. All it took was one time and I was on birth control and took it faithfully. I was against abortions but I went and had one because I was at fault too. I can't afford to raise a child by myself and I wasn't going to ask him to support a child that I was aware he didn't want. Yes it takes two but I could have stopped at the point when I knew we didn't have a second contraceptive. Even though, the guy still should have used somethin regardless.
You had an abortion because you were "at fault too"? How is that taking responsibility?!? You know adoption is an option as well...
 
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April 21, 2006, 9:07 pm PDT

please

Quote From: tripleh

Men... don't want to be a father? It doesn't surprise me, I know that. Now about an argument about a foolish debate about should men avoid fatherhood. If they want to do that, then don't get involved with someone. There is no such thing as men avoiding fatherhood, well... I should say they could probably do that but when that child grows up, they will hunt the father down like he was a moose, that's if he don't make any kind of contact to their kid.
oh ya all understand what Im sayin? Dont wanna be confusin yall
 
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April 21, 2006, 9:07 pm PDT

Wrong again

Quote From: mizpah1

Excuse me, young man.  When you can get pregnant, then you're on equal grounds.  You don't have to go through 9 months of excess weight, morning sickness, swollen ankles, aching back, and stretch marks.  When that can happen to you, /she then you can say you're equal.  All you have to do is have an orgasm, and you think it should end there for you?  What an egotistical child/man you are.   

 

It is the woman who gets pregnant, and it is the woman who has to have an abortion for an unwanted pregnancy.  Where is the equality here?  Then she has to go through life as many do ... filled with guilt and torture for what they have done.  Look at your beautiful child!  What if he/she had been aborted.  What kind of a moron are you? 

 

I have lived many years, 71, to be exact, so I can tell you that you will regret what you are trying to do.  Your child will NOT disappear, and he/she will not cease to exist just because you wish it.  He/she is here to stay.   

  

How dare you!  You are just another man trying to get out of shelling out support for a child.  Your child!  He/she is unwanted by one parent ... what a great way to start life.  How would you feel if your father had denied you at birth or any anytime, for that matter.  This is a child you are talking about, not a piece of junk.   My heavens, what kind of parents do you have that they instilled so low morals and warped thinking?  This is their grandchild!   

  

If you don't want any parental responsibilities at any point in your life ... abstain!  Sexual intercouse was meant primarily for reproducton.  Oh, you didn't know that?  Well, now you know it, so save your sperm, Buster, until you can assume responsibility for its destination and consequences.  And this goes for all of you out there who feel otherwise.   As Judge Judy would say:  "Zip it up".  

  

And that stupid guy who claims he has no children, but still can.  Well, just imagine that!  A woman reaches a point in life when she can't have  children.  So where is the equality?  When a woman is raped and she does not believe in abortion, she is stuck with a child from a guy who viciously attached her ... where is the equality?  Oh yes, men can get raped too (so they say), but one BIG difference -- they cannot get pregnant!  

 

First off I'm a woman not a man. I'm 42 years old. I have 2 children one male and one female. So you are so off base thinking that my opinion is merely achieved because I have an XY chromosomal arrangement.  

   

So don't preach to me about child birth and motherhood - i've walked the walk and talked the talk.   

   

The statement that sexual intercourse is for reproduction doesn't explain the female orgasm which has no functional importance in reproduction. this is proven with your statement on rape - she would not have an orgasm yet could still become pregnant. therefore the female orgasm implies that sexual intercourse has more than reproduction as its objective and it is as important as reproduction because it has always existed as part of the female anatomy along with ovaries and a uterus.  

   

A woman that has been raped could give the child up for adoption - so even in the case of rape parenthood is not forced upon this woman.  

   

I don't expect one legal right for myself and my daughter and then feel my son should be denied the same legal rights afforded to both his mother and sister.  

 
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April 21, 2006, 9:08 pm PDT

This show irritated me to no end

This show made me SO mad. How do men think they have to same rights as women? WE are the ones who carry the children, not the guys. I don't think that Men have to right to tell a women that she has to give a baby up for adoption or have an abortion. If this guy didn't want a child he should have continued to wear a condom, it's that simple. And if he couldn't do that then he should have stayed out of the relationship. As far as his ex medically not being able to get pregnant, I have 2 friends who were told THE SAME THING and they both have 2 year old children. SO what does that say....doctors DONT KNOW EVERYTHING AND CAN BE WRONG. And not to mention if he doesnt want to take any resposibilty for this child why doesnt he just sign over his rights as a parent then he DOESNT have to worry about it. Did he ever think of that? Probably not. There are simple choices here. I am a mother of 2 and my husband and I got pregnant before we got married. It takes 2 to create a baby, and if someone isnt ready for that they need to take the right procautions and/or don't have sex until your married. But ultimately, life isnt up to us, things happen for reasons we will never know. In my opinion ONLY GOD knows how our life will turn out. We are just here to live it.
 
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April 21, 2006, 9:08 pm PDT

Who are they kidding???

Did anyone catch what the lawyer said about the original "Roe v. Wade" decision and the fact that people were concerned "that all kinds of children would be aborted, and it didn't have that ripple effect,"???  Excuse me!?  Are we or is he really aware just how many babies have been murdered in the place that was meant to be a nurturing growth environment known as the womb??  It has CERTAINLY had that affect and more! 
 
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April 21, 2006, 9:09 pm PDT

BABY WARS?!?!

I just don't understand how a man can say "I trusted her".  People trust other people on a regular basis and get screwed in the long run. That was a lame excuse from the "boy" who thinks he has no responsibility with regard to the child that he helped to create regardless of his "readiness" to be a father.  I MY opinion, the girl he slept with should allow the "boy" to make the decision to not be apart of the childs life by allowing him to sign over all legal rights, she should then turn her concentration to the child and allow herself to find the person she's meant to spend her life with who will willingly and lovingly accept her child as his own. This is the situation in my case.  Before I slept with my daughters father, I had been told previously by OBGYN's that I may have a very hard time getting pregnant due to some serious female problems. I was never told that it was impossible. I shared that with the father of my daughter. I slept with him and was pregnant. It was a big shock, for both of us.  He denied the child from the very beginning, Dr. Phil.  Considering I lived at home (age 20), not having (in lamen terms) "a pot to pee in, one to throw it out", my parents encouraged me to make the father be responsible for his part in the conception and future care of the child.  The father refused, I filed for paternity, the courts made him pay child support.  To this day, I wish that I had never gone through with that. I DON'T need the money, as I do very well without it; it's become a treat, when and if my daughter gets it. But the reason that I wish I had let him run, scared into the wild blue yonder, is because of the turmoil that my daughter goes through on a daily basis.  His parents have made more attempts to be apart of her life than he ever has, however, since he has spent time with her, and she with him and his wife, and other two children, my daughter has developed a love for him, for all of them; that love all children have for their parents, no matter how poor a parent they are. He has moved away to another state with his family and has NEVER bothered to call her once. She speaks to him only when she visits his parents, which is on a rare occassion, as she's very busy being a little girl and too, because his parent's live about 45 minutes away. She has been diagnosed with RAP, Reoccurant Abdominal Pain, due to not really being able to internalize the aggravation and hurt she feels because she never gets to see her father nor does she get to talk to him, we have no phone number to reach him, and they don't respond to emails.     

   

My point is, the girl is going to cause more pain for the child (although, I understand her motivation to an extent) if she doesn't just let the "boy" walk away. Let him go. Her child will not blame her later. She will understand so long as she is loved and encouraged and even more so, if eventually, the mother finds someone to spend her life with that will love her daughter, as my husband loves and accepts and cherishes mine.  And now my daughter thinks of her stepfather in a fatherly manner, as she more often than not, refers to him as "daddy".    

   

The boy is a coward, as is my daughters bio-logical father. They have no idea the joy and fulfillment  their children would bring to their lives if given half a chance.  I pity the fathers of these children. It's a serious loss they're suffering willingly, but hey, they want freedom to choose... so give it to them!  Women don't have that much of a choice... we have more options yes, but ya know we still have to endure the pain of abortion (which should be illegal in MY opinion), the pains of carrying a baby to full term, giving birth, and giving the baby away, or the pain caused from fear, worry, and confusion when chosing to accept responsibility and face it head on by keeping the baby and being a mother to the baby. It's not like they come with a "how to" manual, we have to adjust our lives with each of these choices. There's always a piece of us that has had to be re-evaluated because of the decisions we're faced with, so please, excuse me if I sound a little bitter, but the excuses of these "unwilling" fathers really fall short of any realistic need for legalities and rights.     

   

We all have rights... right to have sex AND rights to not.  But all of our choices come with consequences... be grown up enough to make the right choices so your consequences are minimal. Life would be easier if people just learned to make better choices, and not blame someone else if the choice they make didn't benefit them the way they percieved it would.    

   

But again, this is MY opinion... everyone has one.    

 

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April 21, 2006, 9:12 pm PDT

Female orgasm

Quote From: scientist

First off I'm a woman not a man. I'm 42 years old. I have 2 children one male and one female. So you are so off base thinking that my opinion is merely achieved because I have an XY chromosomal arrangement.  

   

So don't preach to me about child birth and motherhood - i've walked the walk and talked the talk.   

   

The statement that sexual intercourse is for reproduction doesn't explain the female orgasm which has no functional importance in reproduction. this is proven with your statement on rape - she would not have an orgasm yet could still become pregnant. therefore the female orgasm implies that sexual intercourse has more than reproduction as its objective and it is as important as reproduction because it has always existed as part of the female anatomy along with ovaries and a uterus.  

   

A woman that has been raped could give the child up for adoption - so even in the case of rape parenthood is not forced upon this woman.  

   

I don't expect one legal right for myself and my daughter and then feel my son should be denied the same legal rights afforded to both his mother and sister.  

Women who enjoy sex are more likely to have it.  Thus female orgasm has been naturally selected for over the millenia.  So looking at the species as a whole, it DOES have an importance in reproduction.
 
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April 21, 2006, 9:13 pm PDT

What was he thinking?!?!?!t

I was so outraged when I heard this guy talking.  He didn't sound like he was talking about a human being when he spoke about his child, I wanted to hurl.  I don't care what the girl says to you, if you are stupid enough, or think you have the responsibility enough to be having sex, then you have to deal with ANY of the consequences, no matter what.  Just because he thinks he doesn't have a choice after that is not her fault.  If he was really THAT worried about having a child, he wouldn't have been fooling around in the first place.  It was his fault, and he should take responsibilty no matter what.  If I was the judge, I would make him pay double the child support just for saying such ugly things about his own child on television.  Can you imagine what that child is going to think when she gets older?  I feel bad for the child.  This man is selfish, and should not be able to have children if he can really think that way about ANY child of his!
 
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April 21, 2006, 9:15 pm PDT

04/21 Baby Wars

Quote From: groovy

I could say I don't want to get hurt, then jump out of a plane without a parachute.  

   

And the fact that abortion is legal in 49 states does not give him a "get out of paying child support" free card.    

matt is not going to court over child support - he already did and is required to pay $500 a month. he is now going to court because he doesn't have the same parenthood rights as a woman. if women want the ability to say when they will become a mother - a man should be able to decide when he will become a father - that wouold be equal rights - anything less is not equal   

 
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