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Topic : 07/06 Baby Wars

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Created on : Thursday, April 13, 2006, 01:22:17 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 04/21/06) Being a parent is hard enough, but what happens when Mom and Dad can't agree on how many kids to have, how to raise 'em and how to get ‘em to sleep?  Sometimes, it can lead to an all-out baby war! Matt's baby battle ended up in front of a judge and made headlines. He was ordered to pay child support for the baby he had with his ex-girlfriend, but he says he shouldn't have to cough up the money because she told him she wasn't able to get pregnant, and he told her he didn't want to be a father. He, his attorney, and the director of the National Center for Men discuss the lawsuit they filed, known as “Roe v. Wade for Men,” arguing that men should have a constitutional right to avoid fatherhood. Next, Dan says even though he and his wife, Lisa, already have four children, he wants just one more. Lisa has been pregnant on and off for 11 years and says she's closed for baby business. Will Dr. Phil help Dan see Lisa's point that four is enough? Then, a frustrated husband is camping out on the roof of his house and living in a tent. He refuses to go back to his bedroom until his wife moves their kids out of their bed and starts paying more attention to him. Can Dr. Phil get him to come down the ladder? Plus, a sleep expert has a simple method for getting your child to sleep through the night. See the plan in action! Share advice and talk about the show here.

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April 23, 2006, 2:13 am PDT

To those opposed to reproductive rights

Right now, right here, look at your son or some other young man.

ANY female  has the right under law to force him to become a father. She has the right to use rape to force him to become a father. She has the right to force him to become a father if she can in ANY way get a sample of his sperm: That includes robbery using a gun.

No male has ANY reproductive rights at all. That is the law of the land for Canada and almost all of the US states.

Now, you DEMAND, loudly demand, that this is right, reasonable and proper. Why should any male, any male at all, listen to any female shen she squawks about her rights? WHY?

We must make changes to give males reproductive rights. That is essential. YOU, you personally, are killing people, you've got the blood of innocence on your hands becasuse of your loud demand that no male is ever human enough to be worthy of rights.

That's the facts folks.

Now is this case the best one available? I don't know and I doubt you do either.

None-the-less, we must give males some right to choose to be or not to be a father ... You women and dominant men oppose doing so. Why are you in any way different from the people who say "so in so isn't human enough to have rights"???? Think about it.
 
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April 23, 2006, 3:02 am PDT

You're a mother?

Quote From: andie2132

I am a mother and I'm sorry but I side with the men on this one.  Say it was a mistake that a couple got pregnant:  why does the sole decision on whether or not to have a child rest with the woman.  Why is she the end all and be all of the decision when it took both of them to make that baby.  If the woman decides on her own to go through with the pregnancy and not give the baby up for adoption then why should the man have to pay for that decision?  What if he wanted to keep the baby and she didn't.  Can he force her to have ithe baby and then raise  the baby himself?  Can he get child support from her?  I do understand that mistakes happen and there are unplanned pregnancies but does that make the men have to pay for the rest of thier lives for it.  Could she have demanded that he where a condom?  She is just as much responsible.  If the woman really want to go through with the pregnancy and raise the baby without paternal consent then maybe the mother should be soley responsible for her decision emotionally and finacially.

So you are a mother.  What if your husband or partner or whatever had said to you  all of the things Matt said to the woman?  What if he demanded you have an abortion or else?  But you ask what if it had been the woman who wanted the abortion and demanded he go along.  Yes he can force her into doing certain things concerning the baby, by using the law.   

 

Courts can rule in all sorts of ways.  The right judge and he could in fact force her to carry the child to term and then take the baby and make her pay child support.   

 

She was on birth control for a medical issue besides the fact that she wasn't supposed to be able to conceive a child so for her side she was protected.  Yes she could and probably should have said use a condom but lets face it I can't think of a person I know that hasn't had sex without a condom at least once and that is all it takes.  It was just as much his responsibility as hers, at least she had a birth control pill on her side, he didn't even bother to make sure of any precaution. 

 

I said before that he is whining and it is all about the money.  He doesn't care about the baby, not at all, he cares only about himself and that is disgusting.  He is a dead beat dad and should be ashamed of himself. 

 
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April 23, 2006, 3:23 am PDT

Key word here, HUSBAND

Quote From: leeannat40

While I think Matt is losing out by not being a real father, he makes an excellent point. Let me say that I am completely against abortion. I have an issue with women and their behavior. When it comes to having a baby they want it all and they want to profit off it. A girl can have a baby with two or three guys and never work again. What a scam! My son doesn't cost us $500 a month. No one pays me and my husband for our children and I have worked less since having a child. There is too much money in making babies and women do receive it all. Women need to decide if they are strong and independant of weak and dependant. It is sad for the baby, but I think men really need to fight for their rights as well. In California women can get at least 25% of a man's income for a child. Too many women have made this an occupation.

You didn't think your arguement over clearly before you complained about the $500 a month and claimed that it doesn't cost you that much to take care of your son a month.  

 

You have a husband.  Your child has a father in the home which means you have his income and you stay home and take care of the child.  That is why it doesn't cost you that much a month to take care of your son. 

 

Think this through clearly.  IF you didn't have a husband to work and take care of you and your kids then what?  You would have to work.  You would have to find a place or person to take care of your child, which depending on where you live can range from around $200 to $300 a week.  You would have rent or mortgage and then all of your normal bills and don't forget gas, car payments and groceries and cell phone etc.   

 

Now tell me that after you pay rent to house you and your child and pay care for the child so you can work and after all the other bills that $500 is too much. 

 

I will agree that some women pop kids out and use the men and the system for money.  I have personally seen it happen and it is disgusting but that isn't the case in this situation.  The main fact is that Matt isn't being responsible for his actions and he is being made to be. 

 

The law is in place because so many men were not taking responsibility for their actions.  Lets face it some men don't like to be adult and responsible. 

 

You have a husband and you are lucky you do.  You have a man that does what he is supposed to do, both legally and morally.  BUT what if you got a divorce?  Wouldn't you demand he pay his part of what it costs to raise his children?   I bet you'd be the demanding he pay half of the fees for insurance and all health care and everything else you would have to worry about.  Then again you could always end up applying for aid from your state.  Oh wait, no, you think it's a scam  to profit off your child so you would never do that.  Right?  

 

 

 
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April 23, 2006, 4:16 am PDT

That's the truth!

Quote From: jettav

then don't have sex and take chances or go get an operation!

THAT"S THE TRUTH!!    These men are whiners and I loved how Dr. Phil told them!!!  Now there is a real live baby who needs a dad....Stop Making Excuses and take responsibility!   

~Dianne in Ludlow, Mass  

 
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April 23, 2006, 4:46 am PDT

4/21 BABY WARS - MAT'S VIEW

Friday's show left me very saddened for the little girl that was born of  the union of Matt and the baby girl's mother.  I remember while watching the show saying "yes!" when Dr. Phil asked the question "is anyone here concerned about the baby?"  While I can relate to Matt's frustration in not feeling ready to be a father, nor wanting the financial burden of supporting a child he was not ready for, I am disappointed that now that the baby is a "reality", Matt--at the child's expense, does not choose to be a part of the child's life and feels he should be released of any financial responsibility towards this child in the future.  I wonder what long-term effect that fact will have on this child later in life when she learns the extreme measures Matt and his attorneys were willing to go to make their point.  If Matt wanted to guarantee that he would not become a father until he was ready, he needed to use a condom EVERY TIME or abstain from premarital pre-commitment sex to protect himself from any accidental situations. My heart goes out to the child that was born of this union.  Matt and she will miss out on a very special father/daughter relationship which can be wonderful.  I will be VERY surprised if Matt and his attorneys win their argument in court.  Whether this child was wanted or NOT, she is here--and she deserves to be at least supported financially.  In a perfect world, it  would be nice if she received all the love and care that she, the innocent victim deserves.   

 
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April 23, 2006, 5:08 am PDT

04/21 Baby Wars

Quote From: mattiedog

Not sure how to put this but I'll do my best.  

  

As far as I am concerned, you should be able to trust your partner totally before you have sex.  Those famous words "I can't get pregnant" were a lie.  He trusted her and she lied.  Why should he have to pay for this????    

I watched my brother go through this and because of it, he is now married to a very very sick woman and now has 3 children who are just like her.  If he had been able to have a choice when the first was conceived, at least the child could have been put up for adoption.  Because he had no choice, because he TRUSTED her, because he did what was considered right, there are now 3 girls (now that's his stupidity to have more).  

  

One has already had an abortion.  One has a kid at the age of 17.  The oldest is so out of it, her teachers in college finally had to call her in because of their concern of her not having any friends.  

One decided to never speak to her grandmother again even though she had cancer and died.  One spoke to her twice before she died...at christmas and her birthday to get money.  The third, the last time she spoke to her grandmother was when she called and told her to go to the bank and put money in her account.  My mother could not even walk at that point.  

  

This is what came from those words "I can't get pregnant".  

  

Yes, time for men to be able to have a decision.  Perhaps if this were so, there wouldn't be so many single mothers.  Perhaps babies would not be found beaten or dead.  There has to be a middle ground to this that I believe would help children.  This may seem cold but after watching what happened in my family I do believe that it's time to come up with a new law.  I guess the only other message that the show gave is that you had better be careful because your partner can and in some cases will lie to you.  

 Your brother was forced to have sex with her? Wow.

You should be blaming BOTH of them, not just your SIL.
 
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April 23, 2006, 5:32 am PDT

What is equality?

Let's look at this situation: 

  • Two people agree to have sex.
  • They decide on a type of birth control.  In this case they decided that the woman should take the pill; a far more reliable source of birth control than if they had decided that the man should use condoms.
  • The woman gets pregnant.
  • He wants abortion.  She doesn't.  Her choice wins.
  • He wants adoption.  She doesn't.  Her choice wins.
  • He wants to step out of the child's life (just as she could have done, if she had chosen adoption).  She wants him to financially support the child for eighteen years.  Her choice wins.

How is this equal rights?  It seems like simple fairness  that if an unmarried woman chooses to have sex,  get pregnant,  carry the baby, keep the baby and  raise the baby.  Then inherent in her choice is supporting  the baby herself.   

  

 If she had put the baby up for adoption would it be fair for the adoptive parents to garnish her wages for support and call her a dead beat mother?  Would all of you be saying she shouldn't have had sex if she didn't want to pay ?  Would you be calling her immature and selfish for not wanting to be in the baby's life?   

 
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April 23, 2006, 5:32 am PDT

Reiterating the facts.

Quote From: gesserit

I think that some people on this board have got it right--if men don't want to support an "accidental" child they need to have that in writing beforehand.  If a sexual "pre-nup" does become the standard, you will find two things: Men who are no longer having any sex, and men frantically trying to forge the paperwork post-coitus.  No woman would sign it because we aren't stupid enough to believe accidents don't happen.  How exactly DID men get so dumb? 

  

This isn't about pre or post coiltal rights. It's about a man's right to have to have sex without repercussion.  He can't just use his hand (even though that seems to work well enough until they get proficient in "lying" their way into a girl's bed).  Really guys, you want us to start basing law suits on LYING? You might want to rethink that one. 

  

After the conception, the woman DOES have all the rights, as it should be. This is NOT an equal society. This is the ONE place women DO have the upperhand...and men just CANNOT stand it can they? Well boo hoo, you big babies.  Get over it. You will never have an equal right with a woman on this one. You have no uterus. We do. That is like us whining that WE don't have viagra, and WE don't have urinals---How fair is that??? (well, duh. We don't have penises).  This whole argument is ridiculous.   

  

And here is  huge reason why women and men aren't equal: Because women DIE in childbirth. Women DIE from abortions or complications thereof. So yeah, it is a WOMEN'S right to choose, based on her insticts and what she is willing to go through, and her religious convictions. Yeah, men might have to pull some cash out of their wallets, but their lives aren't at any risk, and they can continue to party, drink, sleep on their stomachs, eat without puking and so on. So no equal pregnancy rights for men.  Shove a tampon in your penis and we can start talking about being "equal". 

  

  

Men don't get equal rights with women when it comes to pregnancy, period. (and that is exactly as it should be, period.)
 

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April 23, 2006, 5:38 am PDT

I've waited years for this day to come!

Let's go back to the basics!   BEHAVIOR gets a RESPONSE and results in CONSEQUENCES.  

  

Offering unprotected sex and agreeing to it can result in pregnancy.  DUH! 

It doesn't matter who is offering or who is unprotected. 

  

I always thought that if all of the energy, time and resources that are poured into the abortion issue were directed toward RESPONSIBLE SEXUALITY, abortion wouldn't be an issue!  This could happen.  If we, as a socieity, can make an addictive legal habit (smoking) undesirable & unpopular, what if we worked just as hard to make irresponsible sexuality undesirable & unpopular?  Unwanted pregnancy is just plain STUPID! 

  

There are plenty of men & women that NEVER want to be a parent.  Let's make safe vasectomies/tubal ligations & ongoing followup convenient & free to them.  Hey, we could even offer some kind of reward to them.  Bravo for being SEXUALLY RESPONSIBLE! 

  

There are plenty of men & women that don't want to be a parent YET.  Let's make safe birth control & ongoing followup convenient & free to them.  

  

If a child is not wanted, then BOTH parties must use protection.   IT'S PLAIN DUMB NOT TO.  Pregnancy rarely happens when both parties ALWAYS TAKE RELIABLE PREVENTATIVE MEASURES.  

  

What if ALL CHILDREN WERE WANTED BEFORE THEY WERE CONCEIVED?  Imagine the AWESOME CONSEQUENCES TO EVERYONE!  WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN!!!! 

  

WE CAN DO THIS IN OUR LIFETIME!  LET'S GO! 

  

 

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April 23, 2006, 6:08 am PDT

A Man's Rights

Matt made his choice when he decided to have sex at all.  Although only his daughter's mother knows the real facts he can't just say he was lied to and then deny support to his daughter.  Let's say that his "girlfriend" really thought that she couldn't have children.  Could you imagine her surprise to find out that she was?  There's no guarantee that she would ever be able to conceive again and Matt had the audacity to expect her to give the child up for adoption!  HOW DARE HE!  

   

Although his excuse for not using a condom was because she was sterile and was on birth control for other medical reasons, I'm sure that he was more than happy to not use a condom.  I think most men prefer to go without a condom for their own pleasure.  Using a condom could have still resulted in a pregnancy, but he would have been in more control of the situation.  

   

Matt, if you really aren't ready to be a father YET then you shouldn't be having sex YET.  That's the bottom line.  

 
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