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Topic : 07/06 Baby Wars

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Created on : Thursday, April 13, 2006, 01:22:17 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 04/21/06) Being a parent is hard enough, but what happens when Mom and Dad can't agree on how many kids to have, how to raise 'em and how to get ‘em to sleep?  Sometimes, it can lead to an all-out baby war! Matt's baby battle ended up in front of a judge and made headlines. He was ordered to pay child support for the baby he had with his ex-girlfriend, but he says he shouldn't have to cough up the money because she told him she wasn't able to get pregnant, and he told her he didn't want to be a father. He, his attorney, and the director of the National Center for Men discuss the lawsuit they filed, known as “Roe v. Wade for Men,” arguing that men should have a constitutional right to avoid fatherhood. Next, Dan says even though he and his wife, Lisa, already have four children, he wants just one more. Lisa has been pregnant on and off for 11 years and says she's closed for baby business. Will Dr. Phil help Dan see Lisa's point that four is enough? Then, a frustrated husband is camping out on the roof of his house and living in a tent. He refuses to go back to his bedroom until his wife moves their kids out of their bed and starts paying more attention to him. Can Dr. Phil get him to come down the ladder? Plus, a sleep expert has a simple method for getting your child to sleep through the night. See the plan in action! Share advice and talk about the show here.

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April 27, 2006, 7:08 pm PDT

Many of these suits!!

Quote From: cbb1979

I would love to see a lawsuit where the father sues to be a part of the decision of what happens to the baby such as abortion, adoption, etc. instead of them complaining they dont have equal rights once a woman gets pregnant instead of them just trying to get out of the financial responsibilities.

I am happy to let you know there are hundreds and thousands of these types of lawsuits every year in America. However, sadly, men do not often win. Of course they never win in the case of the woman wanting an abortion, nor should they. Nobody should be able to force an abortion or force a woman into carrying a child either. While I understand many will not agree with forcing a woman to carry on with an unwanted pregnancy, instead having her adopt out the child or allow the father custody, I can live with not being agreed with. I do not believe in abortion for myself, and I (hopefully) raised my own daughters to have morals which do not include killing an unborn child, I do believe women should have this choice if it is right for them. Of course it is never "right" for the child. This is one of the "'objections" many have here on the message boards. That the child's well being should be put before that of the parents. While I agree, it is just not a perfect world. This is the law of our land, and I do not support changing it. However, if any woman would like to opt out of all her "choices" post conception and step up and be responsible as she made her choice when she laid down for sex, which is the standard many here are holding men to. Which in my view is simply unfair and unethical. I do not find men any more capable of being ethical, moral, and responsible than I. However, with how society is treating men, many obviously think men are that much more capable of this type of higher moral, ethical, and responsible behavior. Silly huh? But they must if they think men have more responsibility as to ability to make all choice upon the sexual encounter, but women needs "extra" time and choices not available to men. 

  

You see, this is a problem still left over from long ago when men used this argument for denying women rights we have today. Another silly argument I read yesterday was that due to the fact men had all the power and rights in the past it is womens turn now! What happened to equality? Equality is not just for women, it can't be. The fact that something is equal means at least one other item is being measured. Anyway, I have found many who still treat women as though they were less capable than men in moral, ethical and responsible judgments and behaviors. I was very discouraged when I noticed even Dr. Phil who is so for women's rights and equality treats women must more gently for dishonorable behavior and immoral decisions than he is with men. He is really hard on men who cheat, but basically pats the women on the head for doing the exact same things!! This is very discouraging for me. If even Dr. Phil is still behaving as though women are not as responsible for choosing immoral and unethical behaviors, yet tells a man he needs to step up and be a man, what message is this sending our society? Our children? I hold my daughters as responsible for their behavior as I do my sons. It is not a matter of men/women being less able than the other in these areas. Yet society is still behaving as though women should not be held as accountable as men. I hold myself to high standards. I would hate to think others view me as less honorable, less ethical, less able to be responsible, just due to the fact I am a woman!! How ridiculous to think such a thing. It is individuals who should be judged by the behavior the exhibit, not due to what sex you are.  

  

So, I do not believe women should be less liable than men. I do not think men should be allowed less options than women. For any reason. I believe both are pregnant. Each contributed to the pregnancy, each is a parent to the unborn child, no matter which is carrying that child. I do not believe a woman has more rights to a child just because she is the one who gave birth. A man loves his child just as deeply as any woman is capable of. To say a woman is capable of a greater love just due to the fact she bore the child in her body for nine months and gave birth is ridiculous to me. I have seen and known mothers who did not love their children nearly as much as the children's fathers. I have seen fathers who were much  more devoted, much more responsible than the mothers. So, this is also not something which in my opinion "grants" extra rights to women. There is not any reason I can see men should not have choices as close to a woman's post conception.  

  

If women do not wish to give up the extra power this grants them over men, if this is the real root cause for this out cry over allowing men similar choices to determine if a certain period in life is right for them  to become a parent, then that is morally corrupt. As corrupt as those men who fought so hard to  stop women gaining any rights. Many men stood up against popular beliefs in their time and voted in rights for women. They believed in the fundamental wrongness of the conditions women lived in during that time. This was very courageous of them and I do not intend to be one of the ones who fought to deny rights when they should be granted due to the fact I do not wish to give up a degree of power over men that women currently have in this area.  

  

Right now, today, a man waits until after a woman makes a choice before he has any rights under the law. The rights he does have are limited. However, the bottom line is nobody has a right to decide such a life altering decision for any one other than for themselves. So, if a woman chooses to keep her child when she knows the father does not wish to be a parent then she had best "step up to the plate" and accept the responsibilities of her decision, and allow the father to make his own decision as well. If we wish to have rights then we need to be mature, responsible, ethical and moral enough to allow the opposite sex to have similar choice in their lives as well.  

  

If not, then women need to sit down and be silent about equal rights. Individuals who wish only to take rights and not give the same in return have no moral fiber as far as i am concerned. I believe this is not an issue of women vs men, but an issue of fundamental equality of our society. If we wish to further our society in equality then we need to see to it that things are as equal as possible. I just have little regard for those who scream for rights yet wish to deny a section of humanity the same rights. So, women if you are ready to accept your responsibilities and revert to having made your choice when you agreed to lay down and have sex, the standard many of you are requiring of men, then require it of yourself as well. I do not ask anybody to do what I am not also willing to do. Of course men can not get pregnant. To use that as an excuse to deny rights is the same as when men used it to deny women rights. We are just now focusing it in the opposite direction. When ever somebody needs to use an impossible standard to qualify someone else for rights a standard nobody could hope to meet, well there is something really wrong. 

  

I hope just one person will be willing to look at both sides of this issue and see this is really an issue of our society and not just between the sexes. We need to assure equality for all, and not find reason as silly as some are to deny rights we enjoy.  

 
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April 27, 2006, 7:26 pm PDT

RIght on one thing

Quote From: shopnagain

The point is Lauren chose to keep her child and that is both her privledge and her RIGHT.  Matt is nothing more than a deadbeat because he simply does not want to pay support.  It's not that he can't, or doesn't have a job, or is disabled, he simply does not want to! They both made the choice to become parents when they chose to have unprotected sex, its as simple as that!  I have over 300 cases of single parents who, if the other parent would pay support, would not have to rely on welfare.  This is fact.  Not fantasy world where no one has unprotected sex, no one keeps children they can't afford, etc.  Child support enforcement laws are in place for a reason. 

Lauren got to make all the choices...if they had a choice in sleeping together they BOTH should have some say in the end result.  It wasnt a secret Matt didn't want kids.  When I met my now husband he was very clear no babies...we messed around and tried to be careful but I respected what he said and if I'd gotten pregnant I would have worked it out with him..whether it be adoption or what (I personally would not abort).  It would have had to have been a decision we both could live with.  If i'd decided to keep it and he didnt want it..I would have respected that.  Its not like it was a secret.  He's a great dad to my son and its not a character flaw...hes just  at an age he wants to move forward with no baggage (my son is 16).  Matt is young and was clear he didnt want to be a dad yet.  Sure he was stupid...but why didnt he get any say in it...they aren t married...and child support may keep kids off welfare but PLEASE...if you NEED child support to stay off welfare...keep your legs closed...children are a privledge and responsiblity...not an excuse to get free money.  I dont get why people are so selfish to bring kids in to a world that is expensive and have them start life out at a disadvantage.   

 
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April 27, 2006, 9:15 pm PDT

UPSET MOM & DAD!

Quote From: cbb1979

Im a 27 yr old mother to a soon to be 5 yr old daughter who watched this show at the time it aired. I was so upset about what i was hearing i had to turn the channel before it went off. I believe it takes 2 people to conceive a child no matter what the circumstances. I also believe if u dont want children u should not have unprotected sex no matter what the other person tells u such as they cant get pregnant or they are on the pill. You have to protect yourself and do what you think is right. If she lied or told him she couldnt get pregnant , if that happened not saying it did only the 2 of them know the truth, she was wrong for saying that unless a doctor actually told her that. What i heard him saying on the show was he wanted to have sex but not children but he had unprotected sex so he knew the risk at the time. I believe women and men should have the same rights when it comes to choices but in my opinion when he had unprotected sex he doesnt have a case in court in this case. I think he should have to pay child support because he did help conceive the child rather he wants the child now or not. I feel sorry for the child however coming from a fatherless household myself. I have to commend the single mothers/fathers though for doing what they have to do and taking care of their children no matter what. I think the father was just trying to get out of taking any responsibility financially or otherwise. Well these r just my opinions.
As both a mother & father, we find Matt to be the most irresponsible deadbeat  Father who is looking for a way not to take responsibility for his actions!  Regardless of the circumstances, he conceived a child and IS the father of this beautiful baby.  It was a choice when he had unprotected sex.  Unless he slept through sex education class, he would have learned the consequences of unprotected sex.  Even if couples think they cannot get pregnant and after several doctor's evaluations to this affect, those same couples conceive!!  We were so angry especially with the 'Alliance for Men' representative.  What kind of 'expert' or organization is this?!!  Also, we believe the attorney is looking for a way to make his mark on the legal system - even though he WILL lose & no mark will be made.  We also wonder if Matt is the same type of person who blames the credit card companies for giving him a credit card and getting upset after he accrues a large balance.  Look to yourself - you are the only one who controls what you choose to do.  Our assumption about Matt - he is learning to pass blame and not take responsbility.  I bet he has a hard time finding a girlfriend after this show & lawsuit - no one with half a brain would get involved with a National DeadBeat Irresponsible Father!  If he can't love a child - something is definitely wrong.  Counseling is a must to save his soul.
 
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April 27, 2006, 11:36 pm PDT

Really Sad

   Ya know, it is really sad how people fight over things like this.   

      

   First of all,  If you do not want a baby you should make sure that you protect yourself.  I do not believe in abortion but I do believe that a woman has a right to choose.  I don't think I have the right to tell someone else what to do. They will have to answer for their own choices.  This is my belief ,"If you get pregnant and you don't want the child then you should have the child and then put him/her up for adoption.    

     

   A child is a wonderful gift and if people would stop sleeping with everyone they meet then alot of these problems would not happen.  Men and women both need to start taking more responsibility for their actions.   

   

   I just can't imagine that if a couple is in love and they become pregnant even by accident that they both would not want the baby.  I know it happens but if you love each other then why should it matter if you were planning the baby or not.  The baby was made out of love and that is all that matters.      

   

   It's really simple STOP SLEEPING AROUND,  and if you can't stop they use something to protect yourself.  If you don't want a child or don't want to pay child support then you need to protect yourself.  Don't leave it in someone else's hands.   

 
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April 27, 2006, 11:43 pm PDT

How Sad

Quote From: suuzzee

When I was 30 years old I was dating a older man that told me he could not get me pregnant. I was not on the pill and I believed and trusted him. Well, I became pregnant. I had already set an appointment for an abortion when I told him. I thought he would be in complete agreement with me. I was wrong! He asked me to marry him and have the baby. I did not then nor have I ever wanted children. I went ahead and had the abortion without him. The next day he asked me out to dinner and asked me to marry him again. I said no and broke it off with him. I realized that he had tried to trap me into marrying him! I thought only women did this kind of thing. If that man yesterday doesn't want anything to do with that child then that is his decision. What would be the difference if the mother had put it up for adoption? Everyone in the audience graoned when he said he didn't want to see the child, so explain to me what the difference is? If you put a child up for adoption chances are you are never going to see it again. At least he is being honest. Too many people have children that don't want them only to abuse and mistreat them.
I think it is sad you had no emotional reaction to being pregnant.....and you obviously have never had any intimate emotions towards a man...if I read your quote right. Sex should be intimate and an emotional sharing of two people. This is why the debate about this topic is so popular on this message board. I truly feel sorry for you....someone must have really hurt you.....because your qoute sounds like you lack the one thing which seperates us from the animals...lack of emotion
 
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April 28, 2006, 12:08 am PDT

He needs to grow up

What's wrong with that man.  If he has unprotected sex, then he has to grow up and accept his responsibility as a man.  Whether he feels she lied to him, or not, has nothing to do with it.  He decided not use a condom, therefore he took the risk that he could become a father.  In so doing, he needs to be a man and support his daughter financially, if not emotionally. 

  

There will come a time, I'm sure, when he'll want to have kids.  I hope for his sake that he is still able to.  Who knows?  If he held her just once, his opinion might change.   

 
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April 28, 2006, 12:28 am PDT

What a Jerk

  I can not believe the attitude of this Matt person.  Who does he think he is.  In life things just happen that we can not expect and sometimes we change our minds.  Hello of course if a woman thinks she can not get pregnant & she does she is gonna keep the baby this is a miracle to her.  Maybe if you were sooooooooo paranoid then you should have worn a mans best friend buddy.  You can not put all the blame onto the woman.    

   Now that the choice has been made at least participate in your daughters life, they are only babies once and it goes past so quickly.  

   Don't waste this precious time with your child because one day you might just want to be her dad, and she will be old enought to tell you that she doesn't want you.  That would not be a very nice feeling at all i imagine.  

 
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April 28, 2006, 2:37 am PDT

04/21 Baby Wars

So yes, she really didn't think that she could get pregnant, but everyone knows that miracles like this happen all the time.  If he really didn't want a baby then he should have taken that extra step and used a condom just in case.  I can't believe he wouldn't even bother to visit his child.  Hopefully the lady will meet a more responsible, mature man in the future and he will adopt the baby.  That, I'm sure, would make both parties satisfied.  As for the guy; lesson learned.  If you're that anti-baby, then use extra protection no matter what.  Common sense.
 
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April 28, 2006, 5:49 am PDT

And your point??

Quote From: tripleh

Men... don't want to be a father? It doesn't surprise me, I know that. Now about an argument about a foolish debate about should men avoid fatherhood. If they want to do that, then don't get involved with someone. There is no such thing as men avoiding fatherhood, well... I should say they could probably do that but when that child grows up, they will hunt the father down like he was a moose, that's if he don't make any kind of contact to their kid.
The same could be said about women...don't want to raise a kid by yourself??? Then keep your panties on. It IS her thats going to decide if she has it, aborts it, or gives it up for adoption. The man doesn't have ANY rights to decide what happens. In short...The decision is HERS, the RESPONSIBLITY is hers.
 
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April 28, 2006, 5:54 am PDT

04/21 Baby Wars

Quote From: memejones

Why is it that so many women do not choose abortion when either party (mother or father) are not ready for parenting?  I think it is quite selfish to think that one of the two should raise the child on their own.  In other words, why didn't the woman (girl) in this story abort the pregnancy knowing full well that the father wouldn't be in the child's life? 

  

Why in the world does everyone keep mentioning the fact that a condom should have been used?  I mean really, how many people do you know that use a condom when the woman is on the pill?  Can we all please be a little bit more realistic about this issue instead of being idealistic. 

Maybe she feels as a lot of these women feel that abortion is just plain wrong.  I will not hold it against someone for having an abortion, and in some cases I believe that it should be done.  As in medical or rape.  I still do say keep it legal because it would be a tragedy not to have a skilled Dr. performing the abortion.  It's funny though I have heard about people who are drastically pro-life and pro-choice but I've never heard of anyone who was so pro abortion before.  Your saying if a couple who are not committed to each other if they get pregnant they should terminate the pregnancy?  

  

Yes a condom should be used but he thought as many men do "oh she's on the pill I don't have to be  responsible" when I was with my boyfriend I was on the pill and I always had condoms with me to protect against pregnancy and STD's, if he didn't wear one NO WAY JOSE' and yet I got pregnant anyway.  I had our baby and a year later he left.  I thank god everyday that I didn't have an abortion, looking into my daughters bright blue eyes and seeing her unconditional love she has just melts my heart, and I couldn't imagine living without her.  I was 16 and everyone around me was saying that I should have an abortion that I would be selfish if I didn't. I thought for myself it would be selfish if I did.  Thinking about how having a baby would change MY life, how I would feel, the struggle I would go through.  That sounded a lot more selfish than going through with the pregnancy and having a child. 

  

About three years ago I had my tubes tied, I got pregnant and had to have it removed.  I didn't have a choice if I hadn't had the tube removed I would have died.  Even though I knew that logically I went through a deep depression.  Friends and family tried to make me laugh saying I was "fertile turtle" and tried to convince me that I didn't do anything wrong, but the only voice I heard was my daughter saying that it was all OK and she loved me.  Without her it wouldn't be the tubal pregnancy that killed me it would have been the depression.  So by not having the abortion the first time and having my baby she saved my life.  

  

respectfully yours,  

Terri "Fertile Turtle" lol 

  

  

 
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