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Topic : 07/06 Baby Wars

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Created on : Thursday, April 13, 2006, 01:22:17 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 04/21/06) Being a parent is hard enough, but what happens when Mom and Dad can't agree on how many kids to have, how to raise 'em and how to get ‘em to sleep?  Sometimes, it can lead to an all-out baby war! Matt's baby battle ended up in front of a judge and made headlines. He was ordered to pay child support for the baby he had with his ex-girlfriend, but he says he shouldn't have to cough up the money because she told him she wasn't able to get pregnant, and he told her he didn't want to be a father. He, his attorney, and the director of the National Center for Men discuss the lawsuit they filed, known as “Roe v. Wade for Men,” arguing that men should have a constitutional right to avoid fatherhood. Next, Dan says even though he and his wife, Lisa, already have four children, he wants just one more. Lisa has been pregnant on and off for 11 years and says she's closed for baby business. Will Dr. Phil help Dan see Lisa's point that four is enough? Then, a frustrated husband is camping out on the roof of his house and living in a tent. He refuses to go back to his bedroom until his wife moves their kids out of their bed and starts paying more attention to him. Can Dr. Phil get him to come down the ladder? Plus, a sleep expert has a simple method for getting your child to sleep through the night. See the plan in action! Share advice and talk about the show here.

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July 9, 2006, 11:11 am PDT

07/06 Baby Wars

Quote From: errosmom

Lauren won't have to explain anything to Elizabeth. Lauren's responsibility is to raise Elizabeth in a loving environment. Elizabeth will eventually ask questions and they can be answered in a way that is appropriate for her age. All of the explanation will eventually come straight from Matt when Elizabeth is old enough to watch the tape of this show.
Exactly!
 
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July 9, 2006, 11:39 am PDT

07/06 Baby Wars

Quote From: jebjcjsh

Mothers can kill their babys without even telling the father! or they can go thru their pregnancy after they leave the father to just drop it off at the nearest hospital or put it up for adoption and not tell the fathers they even have a baby and that is fair? I think not! Oh and if she did either of those things mentioned above she doesn't pay child support. I am sure if they had to pay child support to whoever decided to adopt their baby and give them a loving home, just as the mother did in this case, most of these women wouldn't give their baby up because they wouldn't want to work 2 jobs to be able to pay for their child and to make sure they can survive too. You want to tell me she is not just as responsible for this pregnancy? It does take 2 and since that is the case they should both have the right to make the decision as to what happens to that baby. If one wants it and the other doesn't then sign away the others rights as a parent and keep your baby and raise it on your own. I see plenty of women on here who have done it. Women wouldn't be going out getting pregnant for a paycheck. Yes I have seen women who live off their child support checks (multiple checks from multiple guys) and the state. Too many men believe women when they shouldn't. Unfortunately this is the price they pay for being trusting. You are right about the only form of b.c. that is 100% but the issue here is the rights for fathers after the fact. 

If two people are involved in SEX then they don't know enough about the person they are with. The child pays the price for that.  The young woman has this beautiful baby and loves her but instead of the father embracing this new life he's worried about himself.  States require child support so that children are taken care of. In some states fathers can't even sign over there rights so that the children are taken care of.  Dr Phil asked him why he didn't use a condom?  That is a valid question too if he was that set on not having children.  If I was the mother I would have him sign over his rights since the one thing he seems angry about is the child support.  I was in a similar situation when I was18.  I knew that the boy I was with didn't want any children and I was taking percautions.  Knowing that it wasn't 100% he refused to use a condom.  When I did become pregnant I was surprised that I instantly wanted the baby even though he didn't.  I made an agreement that I would raise the child myself and I emphasized that it was not on purpose and that I never wanted to trap him.  All of this became unnecessary in the end because I lost the child that ONLY I LOVED>  Of course the relationship was over because I couldn't  trust him to emotionally support me with this and it was the biggest thing in my life at that time.    
 
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July 9, 2006, 11:39 am PDT

Rights as a whole

Quote From: jebjcjsh

We are not talking specifically about this case. We are talking the rights as a whole. Yes I know there are women out there who are scum. Sometimes it isn't really possible for a dad to really be a dad. So in that case it does come down to the $$. And I hate to say this but she didn't have to be a mom. She could have given her baby up like he wanted. She made that choice to keep it. If she didn't want to do that then she should do it on her own.
     Okay - here it is, both partners should have a choice on birth control, they should work that out together.  They should also discuss what will occur if the birth control doesn't work - as not all do.  If they can't agree on that, than they should end it and not consider taking the chance.  If they do agree on what would occur, there is still a problem, a woman who has never had a child, doesn't really know what it costs to raise one.  Even if it were agreed that the guy wouldn't be involved - she can't say she can afford it on her own because she hasn't had that experience to know if she can.  Add that to the fact that you never really know how you'll feel about pregnancy until you are pregnant.  You can't say 'sure I'll abort' and then be really faced with doing it and have a cavalier response to it - you don't know how you'll feel until you have it happen.

I believe in rights for men, but there are certain rights neither party can force on the other.  A child grows in the woman's womb, it's her body that carries, her body that changes, her insurance that covers both birth and abortion and her emotions that are tied a bit more closely into loving a child at this stage than a fathers. 

Forcing abortion on a woman would be like forcing a man to get a vasectomy - it's his body regardless of whether or not he wants kids now or in the future.  These types of medical procedures can only be done with the full support of the person going through the procedure, otherwise there could be mental and emotional consequences.  As for forcing a woman into giving a child up for adoption - that is just as bad as an abortion for many women - it is still a lose of the child - and the child that they carried for 9 months and most likely loved. 

Father's should have equal rights and I don't mean after they prove themselves - they should be from the starting point.  But you have to look at what is best for the kid first - is it best for a child to go back and forth every other day to someone's house or is it best for the child to be in a stable home and environment.

As for child support, there isn't an easy answer on this.  Even if someone feels they can do it on their own - kids are expensive, the cost of raising a child is a quarter of a million dollars - it can go up or down dependant of the parent but it isn't going to be 20K for 18 years!  And I don't see it as being in the best interest of the child to not pay child support - the child needs food, clothing, care.

If a man is absolutely certain he doesn't want kids, he really needs to take precautions to protect himself, not because it is just his responsibility to do so, but because you never know when the other person might change their minds, regardless of the reason.

Are there woman out there who attempt to 'trap' men - yes, but there are also men out there who attempt to trap woman.  The only person who can be truely truste is yourself. 

There was a comment I saw in these posting earlier about how 'woman have no control when it comes to lust' - I would have to disagree, don't blame women  and don't put them as vixens - some are - but more often than not rape is committed by a man, there are more XXX bars for men than there are for woman and husbands cheat more than wife.  Blaming one party is rediculus.

At this point, the boy - and I mean boy because he obviously hasn't matured past himself yet, needs to take responsibility - even if he hates the mom - it's not about her, it's about the baby.  IT'S NOT ABOUT HER - IT'S ABOUT THE BABY.


 
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July 9, 2006, 12:17 pm PDT

07/06 Baby Wars

Quote From: daniel3839

Another STUPID reply from someone who has not been defrauded out of $175,000.00 in child support and FORCED to be a father and assume all the responsibility that goes with it against his will. Look. SHE made the decision, she KNEW he didn’t want to be a dad and couldn’t afford it at the position he was in in his life and the selfish woman didn’t give a damn! She knew the state and federal government would force him to pay and she robbed him blind. If she didn’t have the arsenal of power she has I can promise you she wouldn’t have gotten pregnant, SHE wouldn’t have wanted the responsibility especially if SHE had to pay for it! The woman is not under a set outrageous monthly sum of money, she is only obligated to give the child what she can afford out of her pocket. MEN are obligated to pay this outrageous monthly payment regardless of whether or not he has the money or not. When you are in this position come back and write another post and lets see what you have to say then! Its easy to sit on the other side of the fence and look at the situation but the bottom line is its illegal to give her all the options and MEN NONE!

   

  

 

   

  

DOING THAT STOMPS ALL OVER THE EQUAL PROTECTION RIGHTS OF MEN! MURDERERS HAVE MORE EQUAL PROTECTION RIGHTS THAN INOCENT FATHERS! ITS AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES.......PERIOD! IF MATT LOSES THE “CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITEDS STATES” WOULD BE NULL AND VOID. NOT WORTH THE PAPER ITS WRITTEN ON.

   

  

   

One things for sure, you've been burned.  I have been in that same position as the woman deciding what to do or not do.  At 18 I was with a boy that didn't want to be a father, so I took care of ALL birth control.  He wasn't even willing to wear a condom knowing that abstinence was the only birth control that was and still is 100%. When I became pregnant , I was the one who needed to decide since it was my body but at the same time HE WOULDN'T discuss it.  He felt there was only one choice.  I wasn't even able to consider it.  I was accused of trapping him which was totally not true.THE BIRTH CONTROL FAILED!!!  I truly loved him and even though that was part of who I was for 5 years, I even gave up my family 3 years prior, so that I could be with him. So I was completely on my own. I could never trust him to emotionally support me in anything again so the relationship was over.  The income a woman earns and is put towards raising children including maintaining a home, which has a worth, is not discussed.  Fathers and yes some mothers that pay child support are aware of the amount but the income from the single parent is not calculated. ---Alot of mothers are in the position raising the child his/or her own father is unable to love. It can't end up diminishing the love anyway. (They are mother and father.)  My children are my biggest joy and hardest job I'll ever have and though there's no money amount put to that it is PRICELESS> 

If fathers are feeling FORCED as you put it, then the children feel that.  Love the children for who they are.  Try to put the child support issue separate from the children.   

 
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July 9, 2006, 12:34 pm PDT

Why should she

Quote From: jebjcjsh

We are not talking specifically about this case. We are talking the rights as a whole. Yes I know there are women out there who are scum. Sometimes it isn't really possible for a dad to really be a dad. So in that case it does come down to the $$. And I hate to say this but she didn't have to be a mom. She could have given her baby up like he wanted. She made that choice to keep it. If she didn't want to do that then she should do it on her own.
     Why should she have given the baby up like 'he wanted'?  Youa are talking what is fair here - and how is it fair for her to do what 'he wanted'.  There have been so many coments about what 'he' wants - it should have been a decision THEY made together - but if the choices are death, adoption or staying with your mom - how is the right choice for the child NOT staying with the mom?  Why should it be what HE wants when HE has done nothing other than have sex?
 
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July 9, 2006, 12:52 pm PDT

07/06 Baby Wars

Quote From: ravineklp

This young woman should not be put in the position that she should put her baby up for adoption!!! How stupid.  The father has no right to say that.  If he had decided to keep his daughter even though the mother wanted to he would be able to keep his child.  He only wants his ex to give up the child so he doesn't have to pay child support.  The pictures of this young mother and daughter shows the love they have between them.  I hope enough woman watched this segment and stay A LONG WAY AWAY FROM THIS HORRIBLE PERSON>   the only 100% birth control is abstinence.  Maybe he should refrain from sex at all until he is married. (and hopefully his wife tells him that she doesn't want children.)  He doesn't deserve this beautiful baby.
The Safe Haven Law is a good one! And adoption is the personal choice for some too. For you to say that I probably don't  is your assumption.  The mother of this child wants and loves her.  I don't feel that its okay to try to force anyone to give up a child.  This child's father wanted his child either terminated, or put up for adoption.  He had no right to say that!! 
 
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July 9, 2006, 1:00 pm PDT

07/06 Baby Wars

Quote From: powers009

One comment and I know this sounds harsh but if your husband had been the husband he should have and not cheated on his wife there would be no money being taken out of the home. If he had been doing what he should have and kept his pants up he would not be paying for another woman's child. Your husband is at fault here not the state of Kansas for making him take financial responsibility for a child he helped to create. You have my sympathy your child has my sympathy.
Women should be required by law to work and put as much into the home to raise her children as the man who pays child support.  If he pays 500.00 a month for example, the she should have to provide proof that she has worked enough to put the same amount into raising her child.  If she has more than one child it should be the same for all of the children.  Child Support should NEVER be income. It's set into place to raise children.  I wish the courts recognized this.
 
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July 9, 2006, 1:11 pm PDT

Typical Female Statement

Quote From: feliciarm

On the issue of the gentlemen not having a choice and not wanting to be a dad. 

First of all he had the choice to have sex without a condom and second since when does a man just believe a girl when she says she can't get pregnant or is on the pill.  She has lived with her choice to have the child and bring it up the best  way she know how without his help.  He needs to stop blaming her for the situation he put himself in.   He needs to face facts and know that he made his bed now he has to lie in it and face the consequences and pay child support whether he wants to be part of the baby's life or not.  Simply put, "Be a man" and you will regret the decsion you make now later on down the road when the child knows that you want nothing to do with her for whatever your lame reasons are or were.  Stop being a pansy... 

   

   

Be a man! give me half your paycheck every month for 18 years! And the ol "should have wore a condom'  What BS. Was the girl he was having sex with aware he didnt have a condom on? They are both equally responsible. You make it sound as if men dont protect themselves you have the right to steal 30% of his payroll check for punishment.  What rights do men have if the women is pregnant? None! Women can walk away from CHILD SUPPORT completely through adoption or abortion and men have to pay? BS. Why dont you get a job and earn your own money like men do? Matt Dubay doesnt have any percentage of custody of the child anyway, he has been reduced to a "Visitor" I dont know about others but either I have 50 50 custody or wouldnt want to be the father either! Who the hell wants to be 'Uncle Dad'  Mom wants 100% custody then pay for it yourself. The only reason women always want full custody is for MONEY! All the hell women ever want. They cant print it fast enough for all of you.  

   

 
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July 9, 2006, 1:18 pm PDT

07/06 Baby Wars

Quote From: agrownup

No I don't feel sorry for Matt because he is a child. He only cares about himself, not the little baby he helped to create. And as a matter of fact I pay more every month for my kids than my ex does. He pays a small amount and he has 2 more kids. I never stop him from seeing the kids. He lives in another state and if he is down where we live I let him have the kids even if it is not his "turn", even if it means the kids will be gone a little longer in the summer away from me. I don't do it for him. I do it for my children because that's what being a parent is all about...what is best for your children. He has not paid a lot of medical bills, etc. I just paid it rather than fight with him over it. I never bad mouthed him to the kids when he lived close and changed weekends so he could go out and party... and yes I said CHANGED weekends. Because I am flexible for my kids.   

   

Obviously you have issues you need to work on.   

   

And you know what else, if my kids lived with their dad, I would pay my child support without complaint to make sure my kids were cared for.   

Thank You for that comment.  I'm glad a mother in you position said that. 
 
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July 9, 2006, 1:31 pm PDT

You know why!

Quote From: alleyg

Sex is fun, and sex makes babies. If you are really opposed to having children, then you should not be having sex.   

   

Yes, women have alot of power. We put out or not. We abort or not. I understand how that can seem terribly unfair. But here's the flip side. We carry the baby. We loose bone and blood for them We sit up at night while they cry. We take lesser jobs so we can spend time with them.   

   

Men do none of these things. I have been in a situation where I was on the pill and got pregnant anyhow. I chose to keep my son, how could i not, the creator himself chose me to raise him. I was young and poor and had to take state health insurance (medicaid).   

   

To get the medicaide,  I had to tell who the father was, even though he didn't want anything to do with us. I know for a fact that he has a support order against him that he isn't paying.   

   

BUT THAT ISN"T THE POINT  

   

The point is what is best for the baby. I have a child, that fact alters my life permanetly, If the guy has to pay a little child support, then so be it. But if he was so opposed to being a father, he should have gotten himself fixed. Its a quick and easy operation done in an out patient setting.  

You know why men dont do those things!!!!!!!!!!??????????? Because the United States Government wont let us! They take ALL of our custody and parental rights away from us, throw us out of our own homes, take half our paychecks, give half of everything we worked our asses off for to WOMEN! Men are not given the chance to be a father. An NCP, non custodial parent like myself doesnt have the right by law to give permission for his own child to take an asprin at school! Yeah, whats best for the baby is to give women half of our paychecks. I would like to see how women would feel if we had everything you do, get full custody everytime, all the money, etc, etc. We would have a civil war if that happend. And just because you carry a child for 9 months you dont deserve some kind of damn award! It was your choice to carry the child, not MENS! You have the option to abort it if you dont want to go through it.! Enjoy all your rights, your children and OUR money.  

 
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