Topic : Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

Quote From: jettav

Exactly, it is an opinion. to spank or not to spank is up to the parent to decide and no government has the right to come into any ones home and tell them how to discipline a child. yes, my children have been spanked, it is a rare thing around here but I will not hesitate if need to and my children are not abused, physically or mentally. They are very well adjusted kids. You, in my opinion are describing an abused child because he is just getting slapped around for whatever reason and isn't even being told what he is doing wrong. Communication I believe is an imporant key to discipline/ raising a child to become great adults. just because you and a lot of other people think spanking is abuse doesn't make it so, there are many people as well who do not believe it is abuse so you do not have a good arguement there. So, what do you think should happen? Every one who gives their child a swat on the bottom should have child protective services called on them? I know a family who was accused of abusing their child and their kids taken away when in reality they were innocent and a family torn apart all becasue of one persons agenda and opinion, it just doesn't work, there are many children abused and who falls through the cracks of the system and you want to accuse innocent parents of abuse because they spank. I think if you want to go after abusers, you need to go after the REAL abusers, the children who are harmed, your opinion is just that, so I would advise yuo not to spank, stick up for the abused but don't accuse, accusing can ruin good and happy families. And by the way, my children are living in a happy, fun environment and safe as well. I treat my kids the same way in public as I do at home, You would be surprised how well behaved and happy a spanked child can be, as I said, it is a rare thing but I won't hesitate, the key to good discipline is to be consistent and teach the child and if they continue to repeat the actions over and over then something is wrong and a new method needs to take place, My oldest is in preschool and she has gotten many compliments on her behavior as well as skills, she is a loving and friendly little girl, she is smart and very socially and physically active. She loves school and at the same time excited when I pick her up, that does not sound like an abused child to me, believe me, I know what abuse is for I lived through it and I would never abuse my children and yes I have spanked.

Quote From: ulrika

oohhh this is a sticky subject. 

This is what I am talking about, one family say it is discipline, the other one says it is abuse. The line is different from person to person.   

I think too that communication is the key when it comes to discipline, and I dont what the government to tell me how to raise my children but I do want the government to protect our children. That is two different things. My question was that still no one have answered is why doesn't our children have the same right as we adults do??   Why do we have the right not be spanked/hit in our home, work environment but our children does not have that right??  It seems to me that we are treating people very differently when it comes to a simple human right issue because that is what it is to me. If your husband/boyfriend/manager would spank you in a disciplinary way of course you would robably sue or leave beacuase he is being abusive, why doesnt that apply to our children as well?? 

  

Quote From: jettav

Why do we as the parent have the right to take priveleges away from our children, why do we have the right to sit them in time out? Why do we have the right to discipline them at all? Do we take priveleges away from our spouse when they misbehave? Do we sit them in time out when they make wrong choices? Maybe we should just sit around and wait for the child to make the right choice. Then what? They end up like the little kids on todays Dr. Phil show and the sad thing is, they were all under 10 years of age. We discipline to teach and to guide and spouses/partners who hit does it out of anger and for control. They do not want to take the time to discuss the issue at hand, they abuse. I think as you said, it is a sticky subject therefore all of us as parents need to be careful not to judge others just becasue we don't agree on discipline techniques. believe me, there are many forms of discipline and I believe all forms of discipline can get out of hand and become abuse. I for one, respect my children and they are learning that as they grow. They are learning right from wrong and they know where they can go when they are hurting or need a hug, whatever. parents who spank can be loving and excellent parents as I know many as well as parents who don't. it is about love, respect and communication and a child senses all that. And when it comes to the government, I think our system sucks when it comes to protecting children of abuse and until they get their act together there, they have absolutely no right to tell me as a parent that I am abusing my children just because it is based on opinions. There are children being beat and starved, even death because others didn't want to get involved or the abuser gets off scott free or with little punishment. Again, this is a sticky subject but before one starts accusing, they better have proof before they go into some ones home and ruins a good stable home. I am sure I probably didn't answer your question but in all reality, there is a big difference in an adult hitting another adult for in all honesty, I have never known an adult to hit another with out it being in anger, revenge or to be in control and that is not discipline, that is nothing but disrespect and uncaring. Speaking for my self, I would welcome any one in my home and I would guarentee that they would find that my children are well off in my home, absolutely no signs of abuse, so I and their daddy must be doing something right. I have nothing to hide when it comes to my children and I have never been ashamed of my children's behavior, why should I be, they are well disciplined kids and they follow the rules and know how to act at home as well as in public. It is definetly a sticky subject and that is why judging and pointing fingers is wrong. but I will say there are parents that I would like to shake a little bit as their children are out of control and they come from both sides of the issue, some are spanked and others are not. Every one certainly has the right to their opinions but it doesn't prove anything. I think we all need to search and follow our own hearts and have the best interest of our children in mind and it doesn't hurt to evaluate ourselves as well as our situations as well, I personally have changed parenting techniques with my children, we live and learn, none of us are perfect but if we can look at our selves honestly and have an open mind then and be willing to change what we need to, then we will raise our kids into becoming great and productive adults. Any way, I am off this thing for a while, been on too much but I will be back.

Quote From: cassiesmom

I am so mad,I don't even know where to begin! I will start on Friday,I grounded my daughter Cassie for staying the night at a friends house after I told her she couldn't because it was a school night.My daughter came home from school with her friend,Friday my older daugther came and picked her up and took her to her fathers house because her brother was there from Massachuttes,and she hasn't seen him since xmas of last year.I was on the phone when my older took her there so I couldn't stop her from taking her there.My older daughter came back 15mins later and told me where she took Cassie and why,I wasn't so upset seeing how she hasn't seen her Dad since xmas either,and only wanted to go there to see her brother,but I was mad that she skipped out on being grounded. Then Saturday night her friends mom comes to my door asking where Lori is Cassie's friend.I had no idea where her kid was.Come to find out she went with Cassie.Her mom came to my house 3 times looking for that kid! Sunday Cassie comes home and you would think Lori would of been grounded right? Guess again she wasn't and she walks in with Cassie with her clothes to spend the night on a school night I told Lori to go home she can't stay here on a school night it's not allowed.The kid looks to Cassie as if she is the boss and not me...I told Lori her mother was looking for since Saturday Cassie then tells me her mother knew where she was calling me a liar basically about Lori's mom comming over here,so she called her dad to have him tell me that Lori's mom knew where she was I told her I wasn't talking to him and once again told Lori to go home,Lori was in Cassie's bedroom like she was going to stay here again and not paying any attention to what I said,Cassie still on the phone started to go to her room and I heard her say on the phone to her father "what a fucking Bitch" I then got up off the couch , handed Lori her bag and told her to leave.Then I told Cassie she wasn't going to speak to me like that and call me names like that,Cassie then put her fist up and she said"I am going to punch your fucking face in if you don't get away from me" I told her to put her fists down and she better ever talk to me like that I am her mother and she is to listen to me and show me some respect.then she said it again,so I grabbed her clenched fist and held it to the wall and slapped her,so her father still on the phone calls the cops on me.The police come to my house I couldn't believe it 3 cop cars 4 police people at my house for this..the cop asked what happend so I told him what I told you,and he said oh so your just discplining her and i said yes thats it,so he goes in and talks to cassie and she said I can't hit her and the cop told her i could disicpline her,and that she has to listen to me.Well Cassie seen she wasn't going to win with that so she asked him if she could go to her fathers house..the cop asked me if that was ok I said no that only makes matters worse and she has school tomorrow and she is grounded. The cop goes back in and asks cassie why I don' t like her going there and she tells the cop he owes me 20,000 dollars in child support and he said well your lucky your mom doesn't have him arrested and she told him how I was filing court papers for it.Then she said I would rather kill myself then stay here with her...the cop asked her if she wanted to rethink that and she said no.So we end up having to go to the hospital in an amublance.Then we get to the hospital and she decides she wants to go home.haha Finally we got to talk to the dr.The dr. asks her how often she feels depressed and cassie says about 3 days a week,she brang up the 3 days a week thing like 3 times in converstation with questions asked not even being related to this answer...the dr. asked her why she keeps saying 3 days a week..cassie had no answer for that.I would like to know why she says this myself.Then the Dr. asked her how she thought about killing herself and she said slitting her throat.The dr asked if she has friends and she told her about all her friends and how they always hang out doing things,then when it was over the Dr. gave me to referals for clinics to call. We finally get home after 4am in the morning. I told her not to bother getting up for school because she can't go on 2 hours worth of sleep.So I kept her grounded like I been trying to do finally,everything was ok with being grounded until school was let out cassie wanted to go to lori's house and i told her no.So she starts yelling and screaming at me no problem I didn't care yell scream all you want your still grounded.I had to guard the door and watch her bedroom window to make sure she didn't sneak out of the house. She called all her friends while she is screaming at me I couldn't take it anymore and started yelling back at her.I felt like I was being a whipping bag to her,so I defended myself.I found it odd listening to her converstaions on the phone with whoever she was calling saying how she was going to kill herself saying it like she was bragging about it.Like it was something cool to say to her friends.I don't understand that at all. The next day she had a doctors apt to get her shot my bf told her to stay home,I was still asleep when this was going on I forgot about the apt,I was arguing with cassie all day and trying to make sure she stayed in the house like she was supposed to.I stayed up all night researching mental health clinics and PINS ect.I was so sick to my stomach with everything that is happening all at once out of nowhere. I still am. So she goes to school and now i have to pay 25 dollars because she never showed up at the dr.'s for her 2nd chicken pox shot.Not happy not happy at all. Then she doesn't come home from school and I couldn't go meet her at teh bus stop like I intended to because i was waiting for the mental health clinic to call me back and they said they would within 24 hours. So I figured when 5oclock came rolling along they weren't going to call.So I went to Lori's house to see if Cassie was there.Lori's dad told me to come in so I went in and asked if Cassie was there holding my breathe as i talked it smelled so bad in there and was total mess you couldn't walk anywhere without stepping on something..ughh i can't believe my kid even likes to go there! He told me that Cassie wasn't there then I asked him if he saw her at all and he said yeah someone came and picked them up...I asked who and he said he didn't know.can you believe that he didn't know and his daughter was with mine..what an idiot! I told him if cassie showed up to send her home because she is grounded and isn't allowed out of the house. I get home and about half an hour later Cassie calls says she is going to school tomorrow but isn't telling me where she is because she needs to be away from me.I figured she wasn't at lori's because lori doesn't have a phone.I didn't know who to call so I called my Mom and told her everything that was going on...looking for support and advice on what to do and just someone to talk to. So today here I was still waiting for that mental health clinic to call me back around noon I called another place and they said they would call me back..haha.. Then it was time for the school bus to come home so I was watching out the window so I could grab Cassie as she walked by to make sure she would be still grounded to the house like I want her to be for her punishment...then the phone rings and it's a youth center telling me Cassie is there. She told the school and CPS she didn't want to be here so they took her there to the youth clinic. I can't believe they can just take my child out of school and put her in some strange place without my consent they never even bothered to call me to see what was going on.Then the clinic wanted me to sign papers releasing consent for her to get medical attention if required there,and to bring clothes. Yeah I am really going to give some stranger permission to bring my child to a dr or whatever without my supervision or me being able to be there to sign paper and agree to what a dr would want to do if anything was to happen.Are they out of their minds? I am not signing anything. I haven't done anything wrong at all! I am going to call lawyers tomorrow to have them slap a law suite on CPS tomorrow,for totally ignoring this law:JULY/AUGUST 2000 Supreme Court Affirms Family Rights The U.S. Supreme Court strongly affirmed family rights last month when it ruled that the state couldn't interfere with a parent's chosen method of child rearing unless the parent had been deemed unfit. Recent federal court rulings establish clearly the right of families to be FREE of unwarranted government intrusion into their daily lives. The rulings further establish that government officials may be held personally liable in a court of law for OVERSTEPPING their authority and trampling the sanctity of the family. The court upheld that in the absence of "exigent circumstances," a government official may NOT enter a home without a search warrant, specifically stating, "Any government official can be held to know that their office does NOT given them an unrestricted right to enter peoples' homes at will," and that families have a "well-established right to privacy from inspections by social workers." It's to damn bad my daughter doesn't want to be grounded once she gets home she is grounded for 2 months now.Ughh I am so mad...grrrr This is so unfair how can kids get all the rights and parents get none?

Quote From: jettav

Sounds to me like you have a very troubled girl there and she definetly needs help. The young girl down the road to me is just like your daughter, completly out of hand and she is now in some youth detention hall for a year, You need to check on some sort of a program that she can get into to get her help, she certainly has problems and issues that need dealt with which I am sure some if not all those issues stems from her upbringing. CPS in my opinion is a big joke for the most part, though I know there are good workers in the system, the system it self sucks and there are those with their own agendas, I would certainly go after those people, I am tired of an organization who thinks they can just walk in a take away chilren just becasue of their agenda, I see it alot. But your first priority needs to be your daughter and getting her the help she needs and as far as her father goes, I would go after him as well for the child support especially if he isn't going to step up to the plate and help with this. I really don't know what else to say but your daughter needs help and it is yours as well as her fathers responsibility to seek that help out for her.

Quote From: jettav

Sounds to me like you have a very troubled girl there and she definetly needs help. The young girl down the road to me is just like your daughter, completly out of hand and she is now in some youth detention hall for a year, You need to check on some sort of a program that she can get into to get her help, she certainly has problems and issues that need dealt with which I am sure some if not all those issues stems from her upbringing. CPS in my opinion is a big joke for the most part, though I know there are good workers in the system, the system it self sucks and there are those with their own agendas, I would certainly go after those people, I am tired of an organization who thinks they can just walk in a take away chilren just becasue of their agenda, I see it alot. But your first priority needs to be your daughter and getting her the help she needs and as far as her father goes, I would go after him as well for the child support especially if he isn't going to step up to the plate and help with this. I really don't know what else to say but your daughter needs help and it is yours as well as her fathers responsibility to seek that help out for her.

Quote From: gramma8

I don't think there IS a "one method" way of raising children.  I was one who only 'occasionally "swatted" my children for bad behaviour,  although the amount of times I used this method varied greatly child to child.  I had 3 children,  two girls and a boy,  and actually had to "approach discipline" differently with each one. 

Our oldest daughter had very tender feelings from the beginning,  and a scolding was usually all it took.  Can't remember "swatting" her bottom over once or twice.   

Our middle child,  a boy,  would be on good behaviour for as long as 2-3 months,  then he would start "pushing his luck".  Some smart mouth,  doing something he was told not to do, etc.  and it would just increase in amount of incidents until I gave him a couple of swats on the butt and sent him to his room.  Then I would go in and talk to him about what brought on this behaviour and why he got spanked.   Then he would be good again for a couple of more months.   

Our youngest,  a girl,  was the "spitfire".  She had her "own ideas" from the git-go,  and no, we didn't spoil her.  She had the same rules as the other two,  but she started "negotiating" and  trying to "control" us pretty early.  So, we had some head to head confrontations to remind her "who was in charge".  And....spanking DID NOT work on her.  Just made her more stubborn and determined to stand her ground.   So,  we started taking away priveleges and things she "valued" which,  I must say,  was definitely the most effective for her. 

But, bottom line is,  having used three different methods of discipline,  they are ALL successful adults today with solid marriages,  good kids,  and are very caring towards their father and me.  

Hmmm.  wonder what that means?