Topic : Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

My views on spanking were formed at the hand of my mother. 

  

She was a wonderful woman who was one of 13 children and I suspect corporal punishment was meted out freely in their home. My mom hit us a lot. She called them spankings but they were violent slaps across the face and often had no relation to our actions. Many times, we could tell when things weren't going well for her because of the severity and lack of reason for her lashing out. I was the most frequent target because I had the best relationship with my dad and (from the distance and perspective of an adult) I think she was jealous of that. 

  

My mom was a good and loving person. She was generous to a fault. She hit because she wasn't given any other tools to deal with problems. 

My dad was blessed with 4 daughters and he claimed that the only reason he didn't spank us was because we were girls but I suspect he would never have spanked a son either. We all respected him immensely and his disapproval did more to keep us in line than my mom's beatings. 

  

As a child, I HATED HER each time she hit me. The beatings never had the effect of making me sorry for my actions or reflective. I just hated her. I took years to get over that but happily, I did so before I lost her. 

  

As a parent, I'm lucky to have married someone who shares my hatred of corporal punishment. We parent with love and humour and both our boys have grown into amazing young men (13 & 18) who are well behaved and kind. We began parenting them when they were born. Bedtimes were strict but, by using family rituals and consistency, we never had a problem with the boys obeying. We've also always been insistent on their letting us know where they are when they're out and both obey that rule to the letter. 

If one of us is unfair or hurtful to another, we aplologize. My boys are free to let us know if they think we're being unfair and we're free to tell them when they are being unfair. My own childhood didn't include many (any) apologies unless you count my being forced to say sorry for something I felt uwrongly punished for.  

  

  

I have to say that not spanking made me a more thoughtful and better prepared parent. Parenting through fear and intimidation is easier than parenting with calm reasoning and loving firmness. A beaten and cowed child does whatever they're told until they're old enough to hit back in some way. 

  

  

Friends and family always comment on the close relationship my 18 year old has with my husband and I and with his little brother. I'm often told I'm lucky that my boys never went through a rebellious stage. My sis-in-law who has very different parenting views than my husband and I have seems to wait gleefully for the day my boys rebel but as time goes on, she is disappointed.  

Her own children are fearful but even with the fear, they talk back more than my guys do and they are always fighting with each other, lashing out amongst themselves after their parents have lashed out against them. I remember this same phenomenon with my own sisters in our childhood. We were separated from each other by our anger and the walls we put up against the unfairness and inequity of our punishments. I'm blessed that all of us were able to mend our relationships and have great friendships with each other now but I'm convinced that a lot of the healing came from losing our parents and having to face the fact that they were only human and may have made mistakes.  

I didn't mean to offend here as that is never my intent on these boards and as far as my parenting style, I am the best parent in the whole wide world for my children and I am quite confident, no regrets and doubts here on my side. I was only expressing my view on what wishy washy parent was as some one else (dont remember who and really don't care at this point) was basically referring to spankers as wishy washy (at least that is how I understood it) I was sticking up for spankers. and for those who do not abuse their kids and actually discipline them are not wishy washy. And yes, I do know some paretns who use the disorder as an excuse for not disciplining and it is not an excuse. My 4 1/2 year old has a disorder (which I do not discuss on these boards too much) and it sort of affects her appearance (which by the way happens when there are changes in her life and when she is over stimulated and she is gradually outgrowing it) but we did not use this thing as an excuse. in her case, we still involved her in activities and didn't change our life styles, we would talk to her a head of time and always let her know what is going on and if there are changes, we prepare her for it. positive reinforcement is what we did. Now, don't have a hissy fit, I know it is different and I did not say ALL parents use it as an excuse but it does happen a lot. And in all honesty, I really do not give a hoot what other people think about me and my parenting becasue I am a darn good parent and very proud of the way I am raising my children. And it shows in them, me and their daddy. And I have asked for help with my daughter, some I listened to, others I ignored which is an option on these boards and I honestly didn't mean to offend, I was only defining what I felt a wishy washy parent was. I think the mistake I made was to post my message under "reply with quote" which is a habit since I do it often I guess. My mistake on that part but I stick by what I posted, and I just want to express one more time, it is not my intent to offend others, just not my style and remember we are reading words and they can be interpretted in different ways.

you were not spanked, you were abused. Yes, I have given my girls a swat on the bottom, does that mean I am an abusive parent? No way. I do not slap my children across the face and talk down to them. I do not lash out at my children and they definetly are not fearful of me or their father( of course he spoils them) and they are even aloud to throw temper tantrums and slam doors. They are aloud to tell me how they feel,(of course my little one is just starting to talk), we have family meetings on accasions and we talk about our day and all sorts of things, even behavior and discipline and believe me, my 4 1/2 is a great communicator. I can take my girls anywhere and have no problem and as I said in another post, and if they do misbehave, we leave, we discuss and discipline takes place and no I do not give a swat on the bottom for everything, as a matter of fact, can't tell ya the last time it happened. I am a firm believer that discipline must fit the behavior and I have found that spanking isn't needed in my home but I still do not have a problem with others who do it and if my child needs a swat on the bottom, I will not hesitate to do it, NO parent is perfect, even those who don't spank. You are basing your views on your experience which you have every right to as you were abused, loved as I believe you were by the sounds of your post but you were abused. just whatever you do, please do not categorize people like me in the same category as your mother cause I personally do not abuse my children. and I am confident of that. I don't have a probelm either way, either a parent spanks or they don't, neither one makes them a bad parent and paretns on both sides can abuse their children, I have witnessed it. When I was in foster care, if I would have expressed my emotions such as yelling, slamming the door, tantrums, sometimes I would have been hit with an object (which is abuse to me) or sent to bed with no dinner (which in my opinion is abuse), it wasn't a matter of whetehr or not that I was spanked, making me go to bed hungry was abuse and I would NEVER do such a thing to my children. So what exactly is abuse, I am sure every one here could come up with a definition and they would all have something different in them but what ever the case, you were abused as a child and I don't blame you for not wanting to spank and like many parents(spankers as well as non spankers) I know you have great, well behaved children because you love and respect them and kids know the difference..........

When I spoke with my mom as an adult and a parent about my childhood, she was stunned and appalled. She firmly believed that she "spanked" us. She did not recall ever "spanking" any of us in anger and she pointed to how well we all turned out as evidence of the success of her methods. I held back from letting her know that it was actually in spite of her methods. We turned out well because of the good parenting of my father and because of the positive parts of my mom's nature but the "spanking" could very well have stopped that if we'd had different natures. 

  

Ask your children what is in their minds as you're hitting them. I don't doubt that you are in no way an abuser but I think you'd be surprised by what they think of those tactics.  

Take yourself back to how you felt as a child when someone so much larger and stronger was able to lash out at you. I agree with you that there are many types of abuse and, like you, I don't think a swat on the bum is abuse but I also don't think it's the best way to correct behaviour. We're bigger than they are and, fortunately, we have more life experience than they do so we should be able to use our words and set an example by our own behaviour. Since you can't remember the last time you spanked, I think it sounds like what you were doing was working well but it was more likely the fact that you listen and value your children and you obviously respect them.  

  

My guys don't have temper tantrums ... I think that's just their nature, not an example of my good parenting. They don't slam doors except the screen door which slams on it's own and they're polite and happy but they're not Stepford kids. It's easy to be a good parent if you have good kids :) 

I communicate with my children often but of course my youngest is only 2 but she is learning to communicate her feelings as well. My 4 1/2 talks very well and has absolutely no problem voicing her opinions at all and yes, I do listen to my children and we discuss issues all the time. As far as the tantrums my girls are little and basically do the normal typical stuff that most toddlers/preschoolers do, (usually when they are tired) nothing big, we just deal with the issues as they come up. I believe children should have every right to express themselves but of course needs to learn to make right choices in the process. and my 4 year old has never referred to spanking as hitting, and if iit ever came up, we would definetly discuss that issue, but in all honesty, a swat on the bottom very rarely happens in my home as there are many forms of discipline that work much better but I would never put another parent down for using it consistently as long as they were resolving the issues with the discipline and communication, if not then they need to try something else. I personally know what abuse is and I know what it means to be disrespected and I can gaurentee my parenting skills do not come from my upbringing for if that were the case, my children would not be as they are today, the good natured kids that they are, for I believe that kids learn from a very early age on how their parents love and care for them. They sure the heck know a lot more then people give them credit for. and the issue in my opinion is never about whether they are spenked or not, it is all the other stuff that comes along with it, communication, praise, caring/loving, attitudes, the ability/desire on the parents part to admit when they are wrong and so forth, kids learn this from so early on in their lives and for others to look down on other parents for their parenting style just because they disagree with it is just plain wrong and I am not just talking about the spanking issue, this can be about everything. Gee! A very good friend of mine had a problem with the fact that for the longest time, my girls didn't really have a set bed time as we are night owls and we can sleep in and daddy was working wierd hours and a lot of overtime casue of the demands of the job, so it was no big deal for us and he has every right to see his kids. anyway, I was told by a couple people in fact that I was ruining my kids for life casue they will not be able to adjust to school hours and all that stuff which I think is a bunch of malarky! My girls have always gotten 10 hours sleep a night and napped 2-3 hours, well, eventually, we cut out the naps and they actually put themselves in bed at around 930 every night now, they say, night night and head off to bed. They are easy to get up no matter what time they go to bed and starting this fall, with my oldest going to preschool, they will be getting up earlier and I am sure in bed earlier, Every one is certainly entitled to their own opinions on parenting issues but it doesn't make others wrong about theirs. We all come from different backgrounds, belief systems and experiences therefore our opinions will differ in a lot of ways but we are all in the same boat as parents and really do need to respect others. Now, I know there are some here who I have offended and again, I wil say that is never my intent and we must remember, we only see words, no expressions, attitudes, personalities, nothing but words so for me personally, I don't take anything at heart that is said on these boards but I do appreciate the positive words that you gave because I personally know that I and my husband are good parents to our children (and that is the imporant thing)and it certainly shows through them, and I am not afraid to say that I am wrong about something and we have changed in some of our techniques in our home as some were just not working and in all honesty were a waste of time. This kind of parent to me is definetly not a wishy washy parent as was discussed in previous posting so hopefully I have made my self clear in what I was trying to express before but again, I guess it comes down to oopinions.

I honestly do not remeber saying "non spankers" are wishy washy I think parents who don't discipline, use excuses not to discipline or for their children's behavior arre the wishy washy ones. And I have taken a stand, I am not against spanking so I guess I stand on that side BUT I do not think spanking should be used on every bad behavior that parents need to be opened to other disciplines and I do not care whether a parent spanks or not, the issue is to love and discipline our children to help teach and guide them and if parents are doing this, then I have respect for them. and as I have said many times, I know parents on both sides of the issue and they are good parents with good kids, the way their kids turn out is not neccaessarily based on whether or not they were spanked but it comes down to so many othere factors as well. It seems like no matter what I say or think, you are going to be offended, I apologized for posting the post where I did and if you would look at the title of that post, "so what is a wishy washy parent," I was defining my opinion on that. but I will not apoloigize for being the good parent that I am and I am not going to back down on my beliefs. I am not going to debate you becasue I have stated what I believe and I stand by ALL parents who love, respect and care for their kids regardless of the discipline techniques that they use. I have a group of friends from these boards who I communicate with on a regular basis, there are about 8 of us, some are for spanking and some are not but we have formed a friendship and we chat and talk on the phine and we share our family experiences and everything in between. We get a long wonderful and most of us met on this spanking board. We get along becasue we respect each other as parents and friends, we may differ on paretning techniques, whether it be spanking, schooling, bed times, what ever, we get along and believe me, I am not that mean spirited person that you think I am. I am sorry again for offending you but I am not sorry for sticking up for people on both sides of the issue and I will continue to believe that spanking is ok, even though I don't use it much! And yes, you are right, I don't have a problem expressing my self and when I see the need to apologize I will do that as well. So if I understand you right, you think it is wrong to stick upo for both sides of the issue and because I do this, I am not taking a stand. Well, I have spanked so that in itself should be enough to say that I am on that side of the issue but again, I have absolutely no problem with the othre side. I will be gone for the rest of the week so I will not be on much. maybe tonight, not sure, depends on what we (family) decides to get into today.

I can see nothing has changed on this board. I hope you and your family are doing well. We have been busy this summer, and now Brett is getting ready to go back to school. 

  

My views on spanking have changed since being on this board. I used to be very firm in my opionion that spanking is cruel. Although I choose not to spank my children, I don't believe spanking is cruel. Especially if other forms of discpline are implemented and spanking is a last resort. I think it is good to be able to see and understand both sides of the spanking issue and I think you do a good job with that. 

  

Have a nice week! 

  

Karen 

 I think the problem I am having here is that I wasn't getting so heated over the spanking issue rather that I felt my advice that I gave to a mom who is having trouble with her son was interpreted that this parent was being wishy washy and so on.  and that is why the problems were there.  I am very passionate about special needs children and when a parent is trying, not being heard and asking for help then I would like to help any way I can. I felt that your statement was offending if it was being directed to her but you were just defining what you felt a wishy washy parenting style was in general. I just was confused by this because that wasn't what the post was about. I don't feel it is wrong to see both sides, nor should you back down on your beliefs. No parent should.  We do the best we can with what we have and hope that something we said or did sinks in when they are out there on their own.  Ok that's it because we can go around and around for ever and never really come to an answer.  We should be coming together and not against.  Hope you have a good week

I don't remember who it was or what exactly the discussion was at this point as I have not reread messages, but some one mentioned something about wishy washy parents and maybe not, but I think I felt it was towards me so I was responding to what my definition was and as I pointed out before I clicked on "reply with quote" which was the mistake I made, I should have clicked on "post a message" then no ones message would have been high lighted. I will try to be more careful on that. I really am sorry about that casue I too am a very passionate person, especially when it comes to children, I would never purposely degrade another parent for their great efforts in raising their children and I think this is what I have been wanting to make clear to you here, children are my passion as I have been in children's ministries for 25 years and 15 of those years were in the poorest part of my city, the inner city, I have worked camps involving children of all walks of life and two particular weeks out of the summer are set aside for those in the system who seem to fall through the cracks in many ways, which in all honesty I was one of those kids but survived and had great role models and mentors and I try really hard to set the same type of example. ANy way, I am fine with all this, and I don't want to bring it up any more either, I think these message boards is a great thing as I have developed many good friends through them, (which I never thought could really happen), and maybe that is why I am so drawn to them, I don't think one can have too many friends, can they? :) but I do see the down side of the boards as it is sometimes hard to interprett some postings and I know how easy it is to offend some one with out the intention there and vice versa. I think they tried to make these boards easier and all, but leave it to me to mess up, I will try not to highlight a message while typing a thought unless of course it goes along with a message. The girls and I will be leaving sometime after lunch tomorrow for a couple days, leaving hubby at home so he can get some much needed work done here with out little tiny hands trying to help. I may check in one more time before I leave but otherwise won't be back on for several days. Have a nice weekend.