Topic : Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

Yes, Jetta, the "morsels" God gives us that the job we are doing is indeed on track are sooo sweet.  In fact, at the Annual IEP the other morning, they all said what a wonderful job I'm doing and I can't really tell you how it makes me feel when 7 pros (spec. ed ones that is) pat you on the back.  You know what kind of road I have tread and how "un" easy it has been, but I believe as long as you have children whom you love more than anything, parenting is difficult, b/c they can hurt you more than anything else can.  They talked about how far he has come and how, basically, that doesn't happen unless things are "on track" at home.  I believe people would shudder over the things I've been through and had to do.  Spanking is truly the least of "my" worries.  Just simply popped in to see how things were going over here.  I know I'm a good parent who has used just about every form of punishment, positive and negative reinforcement and behavior modification to see what works best and stuck with what did (at the time, anyway - God knows things don't stay the same for too long LOL)  I have always made sure whatever I used brought positive, definite, lasting results - you can't go wrong with that.  I will say the rock method we are using now is FINALLY working famously with everyone.  REALLY hits home.  I hope it sticks b/c it provides such a clear understanding on their part and pretty easy for me (finally), too. :)  I remember Dr. James Dobson saying, "Parenting is not for the weak, but parenting a child with special needs is only for the strong".  Couldn't have said it better myself!!! LOL  You are doing SUCH a GREAT job with the girls, Jetta.  Yes, I've met them (and you, too, Missy Lou) and I'm better for it.  They are absolutely beautiful, well-behaved, spicy enough to be considered kiddos, and it is CLEARLY obvious that you and the hubby man add it all to them!!!  Including any ice-cream issues they may end up having!!! LOL LOL  I have never been able to use the same discipline on any of my children at the same time up until now.  That makes for some really creative thinking and balancing acts so no one feels mistreated b/c one "gets away with more than the other".  Now, THAT, my dear, is really fun parenting, eh???!!!LOL LOL 

Emwonk, I believe any form of discipline or punishment has to be taken very seriously when dealing with other peoples' children.  Other people have spanked one of my children, but then again, others have done things that I completely didn't agree with.  It all boils down to what works for your child (at the time) and what the other person feels comfortable with.  I'll give one example.  My mil is very against spanking.  I have always been fine with that.  In fact, I never spanked my children in her home (didn't spend much time there, but nonetheless).  However, at the time, my one child couldn't handle being spoken to for more than about 3 words without having a meltdown.  Well, she took it upon herself to TRY to EXPLAIN to him (after I had already told her it didn't work) what he was doing wrong and why.  Well, needless to say, when we picked him up, he was a MESS.  It took me a good hour to get him "back".  So, in THAT scenario, it wasn't spanking that was the problem.  Well, and if done properly, it can be a very useful tool in parenting.  I say tool, b/c proper parenting doesn't end with just the act of discipline.  You MUST carry it completely through from beginning to end.  A LOT of people think a spanking is just merely "hitting" a child on the behind.  THAT is NOT a spanking and I can't express that enough.  It entails MUCH, MUCH more. 

Take care and God bless. 

I am 54 years old and I have had the opportunity to closely watch many kids grow from babies to adults.  I watched one family of kids be spanked, and a family that didn't spank.  I watched one family be  raised on what I considered just borderline abuse.  I watched one family of kids be verbally abused all their lives, but no spanking.  There was in some cases, what I personally deemed excessive spanking....There was a family that just did not seem to parent at all.  The kids were made the kings and queens of the castle and the parents did their every bidding.  One family read the Dr. Spock book and when you went into their house, it was bare.  Knobs were off the tv...all of the precious things were on shelves high up on the walls.   There was nothing left at childrens level, so there was nothing that the children weren't allowed to touch or do.  (You had to hang your purse on a hook high up if you didn't want it gone through).   

Some of these homes you just would not go visiting at because trying to visit was futile unless of course, you were specifically going to visit the kids.  Others you didn't feel comfortable visiting because sometimes it broke your heart the way the children were treated.  Others were enjoyable to visit as the parents had control of the kids without having to constantly disrupt a visit.  One family you'd visit and never see the kids unless you went into their rooms and saw them quietly playing. 

Now, these families visiting our home.....well, again, you had the families you dreaded seeing walk in your door because you had to be the one running after their kids to keep your things safe.  You had the families that did spend their entire visit running after their kids so the visit with the parents was not enjoyable.  Then you had the family that when  the children walked in they would just sit on the floor and not move or say a word while the parents were visiting and that was uncomfortable.  Yes we had some visitors that were just normal...the kids would play quietly while the parents had an enjoyable visit. 

Now, no matter what my thoughts were of the parenting skills as these kids were growing up...... I now see all of these children as adults, some with children of their own and some single but out working hard... all of them friends and still getting together alot...  they all ended up pretty much the same.   

I have come to the conclusion that we cannot judge parents by what we see from the outside.  Yes there are people that beat their children and something must be done.....spanking and beating are very different.  Neglect is obvious to most people, and something has to be done.   

Demeaning a child with namecalling, or labelling them with words like "stupid" and "idiot" is obvious abuse to me but isn't considered a reason for a parent to lose a child. 

However, hearing a parent tell a child that what they DID was a stupid and idiotic thing to do is not. 

The parent that constantly demeans a child by namecalling or labelling is likely doing more damage to a child than the spanker.    Seeing a child getting spanked at the grocery store bothers me less that seeing a child ramming a shopping cart up some old lady's legs and being told by the parent "tsk tsk you really should't do that honey", and watching the kid take off after another set of heals to smash into. 

Not every child responds to the same parental tactics.  We all have to find out what works for each of them through trial and error.  Too many times other people judge on the "error" part.  It would be so much easier if each child came with instructions on which parenting tactics will work on each individual child.  But they do not.   

We all have opinions on parenting skills and we will always have people who will disagree with our tactics.  In Ontario they passed a law that there will be no spanking....however, they almost immediately disposed of the law before many even knew it had been passed.  Because the government saw what this was going to do to the court system.  You had the anti spankers set to pounce on every other parent in the province.  So far, the law says you must have control of your children in public just like you must have control of your pets at all times.  What your children do in public is your responsibility.  When we are out and about in our daily lives and we see children that are just out of control....we blame the parents for not controlling them.  But we may be the first ones to report a parent who may spank while trying to do just that....control their child.    

We all will never agree on this subject.  The abuse laws are in place to protect those children that are actually getting beat like an adult gets beat.  Also laws for neglect, for the children that are obviously not being provided even the bare necessities of life.  I do not think we really want laws governing our normal everyday parenting tactics.   

This is an opinion board.  Your opinion is one thing...but to argue against anothers view is just plain silly.  Obviously you are not going to see an opinion from a person who beats the heck out of their children, or is sitting there while their children are filthy and starving to death from neglect.  Those types of people do not care about giving an opinion.  Also, those types of people usually isolate their families far away from others so they are not found out.  So we have to assume that all of the parents that are posting on this board are just normal parents with different ideas....but most importantly, are into parenting.   If I see a well adjusted, well behaved child...I do not wonder about the parent's tactics.  I am just pleased that whatever tactics they used, did indeed, produce this well adjusted, well behaved child.  

I have a hard time with parents who say that spanking is NEVER useful when they have never seen the effectiveness of it.  I understand not everyone agrees with the effectiveness of it if you have never seen it.  I don't agree with the abuse you've witnessed, Texas.  I think it enrages me more than anything on this Earth that an adult could use such "power" to destroy.  However, I will say that leaving a store and revoking a privilege did not work with my one son.  In fact, nothing worked for him but spanking.  I have a very basic idea of positive, definite, lasting results.  If I don't get all 3, then the discipline/punishment is not used.  If I left everywhere he acted up, my other 2 would have never been able to do anything which I would NEVER tolerate and still don't.  Can't say that spanking is "necessary" anymore in our home b/c of maturity/understanding, but at one time, it was the only thing he would respond to in any fashion.  In fact, there was about a year time frame in which we didn't go anywhere together as a family so my other two sons didn't miss out on EVERYTHING. 

Well, and as far as all of us being the same when we boil it all down, I have to question that as well.  I know you mentioned the disabilities and for that I thank you, but that, in and of itself poses MANY problems with the rest of the statement.  I found out very quickly that he and I are NOT the same more than we are in many ways.  You would think we all want love, attention, etc., but believe it or not, that just simply isn't true and therefore, everything that the so-called experts bring to the table must be scrapped and start over from scratch. 

(Not at you, Texas)  I know many people have said, too, that if the schools can have the children all day without spanking, so can adults.  Again, I've seen this to be untrue.  In my case, anyway.  We live in one of the best districts in the area.  They have SO many things to offer kids with special needs that kids get bussed to us from everywhere locally.  In fact, many people move to our area just for our schools.  Anyway, the way I raise our children has nothing to do with what the teachers do at school.  Yes, they have to have them conform to some degree, but overall, it is my responsibility to teach them become an asset to society - not the teachers. 

Respectfully submitted, 

Tselb2