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Topic : Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

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Created on : Thursday, June 30, 2005, 12:50:41 pm
Author : dataimport
Is spanking a necessary evil or can you discipline effectively without physical punishment? Sound off about spanking.

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belle_836
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May 17, 2008, 10:19 am PDT

Spanking? Yes or No?

As an active duty Military family, I spent large amounts of time alone raising my children and there had to be a definite way of handling things when one parent is away and one is in the midst of the battle, so to speak.

Spanking does has it's place in the area of discipline but it isn't the first line of action. We had a list of rules and we listed the consquences to disobeying those rules with a level of disicpline, not punishment. We had 2 levels of discipline...... one for bad behavior and the other for willful disobedience. Bad behavior discipline was based on the offense, so to speak. It could be anything from time out, losing priviledges to writing  definitons out of the dictionary for a specified time. Willful disobedience was a spanking offense and the number of swats were listed on the discipline chart. Therefore, we all knew what would happen and when IF there was a disciplinary action needed.

My children attended various schools and school systems but they all had one thing in common.....they used corporal punishment.However, no matter the state, they all required parental attendance when spanking was to be involved. A parent either had to attend  or they could administer the  dsdicipline but a parent had first hand knowledge of the details.

Parents are responsible for training their children, it isn't the school systems job but if parents won;'t do it....somone must to maintain control of the classroom. There comes a time when stricter measures of discipline are necessary but it should be as a final recourse, not a first stike measure. There is a difference between punishment and discipline and we should be teaching all children to follow authority lines for everyone's welfare.

One final thing, when either of my children had   school issues that needed to be resolved, the one thing we required of them was to go back and apologize for the situation.From the Principal and office staff down to their classmates. It always seemed that the apology was the hardest for them to do and often got the better results as they had to face others for their conduct.

 
 
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danelledennis
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May 17, 2008, 10:29 am PDT

I believe in spanking

 I think that if you spank a child as a learning tool than it is ok. If you are just beating your child out of anger than it is wrong. Spanking is something that has been used as a form of discipline for years. My parents spanked me and my siblings. I know that their parents spanked them. My parents had a healthy fear of their parents and respected them. Some parents do go over board, but the ones I know do it out of love and do not abuse their children. Children need to know that their are consequences for their actions. There are many times that I think that other forms of discipline work, but there are times when a spanking is necessary. I do not get angry and beat my children, but if they need a spanking I will give them one. For those that believe in God, even He talks about discipling his children in a loving way. There are a few places in the Bible that talk about punishing our child for wrong behaviors.
 
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helenstarr
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May 17, 2008, 10:32 am PDT

Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

I am a 39 year old mother of a 61/2 year old boy. Believe me I understand frustration when it comes to disciplining your child (part of the reason I only have one). My son has never really been easy to deal with and due to my background in Education I had him evaluated by ECI (Early Childhood Intervention) when he was only 2.They of course could find nothing there but a strong willed little boy. Well, by the time he was four and extremely violent at times (granted , he has never- had a real spanking in his life) he was diagnosed by one of the top developemental pediatricians in the country - here in Houston - with Aspergers Syndrome and ADHD. I truly believe that if he had been spanked for these behaviors I would have a very emotionally disturbed child today. Instead I have a  self- asurred , loving, non-violent 6 year old. He is attending Public School in the Katy Independent School District and has not been diagnosed by the district as Special Education and is about to complete Kindergarten. My story is way to long to tell, however, I will let you know that I did believe in spanking within healthy perameters. Early on I realized that especially in my case, I could not teach a violent little boy to not be violent by hitting him. The only thing that has ever worked with my son has been taking away something of value - Never relationship consequences - NEVER that  and by all means NOT SPANKING. There is a level of emotional safety that a child requires from his/her parents.  I have educated/disciplined my son on actions and consequences - good and bad. He has literally come home from school and told me he has decided to not get the limit on warnings there because he doesn't like the consequences at home - NONE OF THEM REQUIRE ME HITTING OR STRIKING MY CHILD WHATSOEVER!!! my son knows without a shadow of a doubt that whereas I may not like his behavior or choices at times I love him unconditionally and always will. Does this cause him to not value the relationship because I have made it too easy? ABSOLUTELY NOT! My son wants to do what is right because he loves me and values my feelings as he knows I do his. What is the old saying "Do as I Do not as I say"? Good motto to live by. It sounds to easy to some people for it to really work - but I am living proof - I have a child that was kicked out of 5 pre-schools and caused me to have to quit my job (as the Assistant Director of his daycare!) and become a stay home mom with a child I couldn't relate to and a husband that worked over 70 hours a week! Don't talk to me about tough - I dropped from 120 pds (at 5ft tall) to 92 lbs and my hair was falling out. I was a wreck and so was my helpless little boy - Who was scared and angry at the world. Spanking would have been an easy choice - and don't think I didn't consider it at times - but I never did it. I had no family to help - NO ONE BUT ME AND HIM!! Did I leave the house - even when I thought I was going to go crazy - NO - I couldn't leave my child alone! I would have to put him in a play pen - when he would rage ( he use to bang his head on the tile floor) so that he would not hurt himself and let him calm down on his own- He was only 3. At that time I would go to my room - hit my knees and pray for the strength to do the right thing by this gift God had entrusted me with. That is the answer folks - PRAYER AND PERSERVERENCE - and then MORE PRAYER- prayer for parental guidance and strength. There is absolutely no excuse to strike your child and have the audacity to call it discipline - IT IS PUNISHMENT AND IT HUMILIATES - it is just that simple.

Enjoyed the Show !

Helen Hill
Houston, Texas 
 
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mmspirit7
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May 17, 2008, 10:40 am PDT

Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

Quote From: idocare77

After all of the years I have spent on this planet, I remain surprised that parents think that their violence doesn't breed violence. Do parents really want to watch their Grandchildren being abused? The cycle must be broken.
It is agains the law to hit or threaten an adult! Why do parents think that it isn't wrong to do that to their children?
Thank you, Dr. Phil for so clearly delineating the difference between discipline and abuse!

I have to say that I agree with you if it's  against the law to hit or threaten an adult who can defend themselves then it should be for a child as well.

There is a difference between discipline and abuse.  I am tired of hearing kids act up because they aren't spanked.  I have two boys and they are disciplined my youngest all I have to say is bad and he know it was bad.  I don't have to yell it.  I just say Freddy that was bad.  I don't tell him was bad but what he did was bad. Does he repet the mistake sometimes.  well yeah he is still growing and so is his brain.

But I don't think that one time is enough for him to learn.  Heck there are times it takes me a time or two to get something too.

I agree thank you Dr Phil for this show.  lets get more ideas out there to help these parents.
 
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gtvanby
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May 17, 2008, 10:52 am PDT

about spanking

As a single parent with 4 children, one in diapers, I never raised my voice with my children or spanked.  We talked in groups, or one on one. As the bread winner, I taught school 30 years, mostly secondary, for a total of 3 years I was placed in middle school.  I made it clear immediately at the beginning of a term that I would not tolerate misbehavior.  I never raised my voice in class.  I spoke so low that they had to pay attention and listen to hear me. If there was misbehavior I gave that student a very hard look.  This worked because it was so embarrassing.  If more was required I asked the student to remain after class when there was a one to one discussion .  I made it clear that I wanted a quiet class, that if they needed to speak to a neighbor they had to whisper.  I had a list of unacceptable behavior this would be followed by "Consequences".  I never said what the consequences would be.  On rare ocassions I had to refer a student to a counselor and a parent conference would be required. These techniques worked for me I taught in LAUSD and other city schools.  Children should not be called 'kids'. they are not kids they are individuals or groups.  This is wrongly used in his country.  They are not kids, they are: enfants, toddlers,children,girls, boys, teen agers,students, scouts, athlets, and /or youth, or young men or women.  Stop calling them kids!  Please. It is so non specific address them where they are in life. G. van Brocklin
 
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helenstarr
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May 17, 2008, 11:18 am PDT

Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

Punishment humiliates, Discipline Educates
 I left out a few very important facts. My son hasnever been medicated for his challenges nor have I tried any specialdiets etc.  I simply Prayed, listened and obeyed. Easy? - not at all.Effective - absolutely! Could I have done this without God - No way ina million years. For those who may be sceptic - or have tried on thereown - I have one question for you - How is it working for you? CAN'T -just isn't a part of my vocabulary anymore - I have been shown that Ican - with a little help from the ultimate parent.  I hope this may inspire some of you out there with difficult children. It is usually the misunderstood child that is labled the bad child and usually there is something much deeper than bad behavior going on . It is our responsibility as parents to find out why this is occurring - Not just to make it stop. It helps to educate yourself on your child before you decide the form of disciplne necessary. Is it more about you and what you can handle or your child and what they need from you in order to grow up tobe a successful memeber of society  - healthy and happy? I did not get immediate results - this has been a constant work in progress for 61/2 years and is far from over. The first five have felt like a lifetime. To try something over and over with no positive result makes no sense to me at all. It is like banging your head against the wall wondering why you have a headache - yet you continue to bang your head when there is aspirin right in front of you? INSANE. As far as I am concerned I am the one who is going to have to answer for how my child is raised - not the school, not the boyscout leader, not the sunday school teacher - ME and my husband. My son was given to us and us alone. I do not expect nor require anyone else to raise my child. Yes, I entrust him with the teacher and staff of his elementary school, but they KNOW me - they know me well. I am SUPER involved. Is it convienant for my husband and I to literally live hand to mouth in order for this to occur - NO!!! Is it necessary in todays world for my sons spiritual , emotional, physical and educational well being that we sacrifice in this area - YOU BET IT IS!!!! IT IS NOT A CHOICE - IT IS A RESPONSIBILITY- Deciding to have a child was a choice we made - after that we have an obligation and responsibility that goes far beyond just our son. We have a responsibility to our God and our society as a whole to raise this child in a way that he can benefit our country, world and please our God. Could we still have more children? Yes we are healthy enough physically to do so. Is it the responsible thing to do? Not for us - No. Did we want more children? Yes we wanted more children very much and at times it still weights on me that we haven't had anymore. When anyone has a child, I believe their life is not just about their wants and needs anymore. I have sacrificed in ways you wouldn't believe for our son and will continue to if necessary. Does he know this? Maybe somewhat- am I the martyr type? No not at all - I am just really tired of parents that want to have a life of convience at their childrens expense. The children should always come first. It pains me to know that anyone would allow a perfect stranger or even a not so perfect stranger ( anyone at all)  to physically punish their child. No one in the world is suppose to be able to love your child the way you do and if you can become angry enough, frustrated enough, tired enough to lose sight of your love and replace it with all of these feelings and strike your child - What is someone else who doesn't have the connection and love for your child the way you do capable of? How abandoned does your child feel from your protection at that point and does that trust ever have a chance of returning? Corporal punishment is BARBARIC and in Texas it is illegal - THANK GOD. I was shocked to hear it still is allow in the U.S. I guarantee you more harm than good is being done. For those of you that feel Dr. Phil was wrong, I suggest you speak to more than one professional ( or simply educate yourself - READ, use the internet - EDUCATE YOURSELF- knowledge really is power!)  in the area of Child Psychology and the damages of abuse and neglect from the parents. Dr. Phil is right on target - I don't feel he was to hard on the couple there at all. Don't tell me that simpathy is what they need here and a good pat on the back for coming forward. What about the kids? How long did it take this couple to come forward? and what provoked them? Guilt? possibly  or could it have been suspicion that they were going to be reported and going public would protect them? who knows? Dr. Phil tells it like it is - he has been in this buisiness for over 30 years and to tell you the truth I am sure he doesn't really care what you think of him - He is healthy in his think ing. I appreciate his candar and would expect nothing less of him if it would have been me. People need someone to be painfully honest with them and he is just the man for the job!! I love you Dr. Phil and I appreciate your efforts to educate this very ignorant world of ours. Raising our son is the most difficult, scarey and wonderful thing I have ever done all rolled into one. What a ride it has been - what a wonderful ride it already has been.


 
 
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tiabrot
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May 17, 2008, 11:24 am PDT

spanking

Quote From: poetmom

Spanking isn't an option for everyone, and there are plenty of other ways to get the same results without ever having to put a hand on your child in that way. Mine are 19, 15 and 12, and I have never had to spank any of them....and yet they consistently have gotten compliments on their behavior, both with me and away from me. They learned self-control and self-policing at a very early age through having things explained to them, and that seemed to be what worked best with their personalities and temperaments. They didn't take well to just being told that something wasn't allowed...they wanted to know what could happen to them if they did it, or why I thought it wasn't a good idea, and things like that. Then, once they processed the reasoning behind the rule, they had no problem complying. They still, as teens, prefer to discuss and understand rules rather than just have them given to them, and that still results in few, if any, breakage of rules, so we stick with it.  :)

 

Teresa
Gentle Christian Mothers - Index

   sometime a small swat on the rear with hand, if you are not angry may help. My son was the only thing he understood. I don't think you should spank when you are angry,and not if talking like my daughter works better.
 
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helenstarr
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May 17, 2008, 11:33 am PDT

Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

Quote From: PennyLane78

I don't believe in God firstly. Secondly I know plenty of people who do believe in God how have found non-violent and non-physical ways to TEACH and GUIDE their children into healthy adulthood.

I wasn't comparing wife beating and spanking, reread my post please. I was comparing the idea of having an expert on the show who supports something Dr. Phil does not.

I think in the mind of a child it doesn't really matter what is going through the mind of the parent...so, no I don't see any difference between the two.

I think spanking is lazy parenting.
I agree that spanking when they are too little to reason with is necessary for their protection. And don't get me wrong , when I say spanking I mean a forceful tap on the diaper - once the diaper is off the amount of force behind the spank - needs to lesson considerably. If spanking is to teach, to protect then it should not ever become abusive, angry or disrespectful. I was not able to spank my son due to his neurolgical differences and his way of processing information. Therefore I was forced to find a way that did work. What I found out is the more angry in my words or actions I became - so did he. the calmer I remained , the calmer he remained. Children follow our lead - what other lead do they have? I do not judge parents for the way they parent. - Each situation is different and each child is different. If abuse is occurring then that is a different situation altogether. Rarely has that been the case in my relations with others. I do believe in God and because I do - I believe it is wrong to judge others period!!!  I do fall into that place from time to time when the subject is one of passion for me - yet I always try to redirect to a better way of thinking. I do not think that spanking is lazy parenting - I think it is an easier more immediate result way of parenting. I think doing nothing at all and letting someone else be totally responsible for your child is as well as putting your needs and wants first is not parenting at all.  All I know is that parenting is the most difficult and rewarding thing I have ever done in my life. I continue to pray that I am able to do a good job.
 
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sugarboog

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May 17, 2008, 11:46 am PDT

Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

Quote From: lmcoffee

Spanking done the way God actually intended it to be is NOT abuse, it cannot even be compared with "wife beating" paleeaaaseee!  What you said is insulting to other people's beliefs, did you not read my whole passage?  By the way there ARE experts who condone spanking such as James Dobson who wrote "Dare to Discipline".  Just because people have different beliefs doesn't give you free license to compare them to abusers.  Wouldn't you agree there is a world of difference between spanking out of anger and spanking to teach the child out of love?  Believe it or not it can be donelisa

 

Spanking done the way God actually intended it to be is NOT abuse, it cannot even be compared with "wife beating" paleeaaaseee! 

 

This is how "bible god actually intended"  :::

 

 

Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. -- Proverbs 23:13-14

 

 

What you said is insulting to other people's beliefs

 

Too bad.  Some people "believe" it's okay to molest children too...I would imagine they would be "insulted" as well....at what I have to say about it........but wrong is wrong.

 

 By the way there ARE experts who condone spanking such as James Dobson who wrote "Dare to Discipline

 

lOL...James Dobson is a bible believing Christian Supremacist and certainly believes in the "beat with a rod" scripture I posted.  Also, just because he wrote a book and is a bible believer doesn't make him the final authority on anything.

 

 Just because people have different beliefs doesn't give you free license to compare them to abusers.

 

Just because people have different beliefs doesn't give them a free license to abuse either.

 

Wouldn't you agree there is a world of difference between spanking out of anger and spanking to teach the child out of love? 

 

No parents hits out of love.  They are delivering punishment ALWAYS because they are disappointed, angry, frustrated, panicked, fearful which are all human emotions.  Just because a parent decides to "hit" instead of doling out civil non-violent discipline or punishment doesn't mean those emotions disappear.

 

Believe it or not it can be done

 

Well just like you have your "beliefs" others have theirs and NO we don't believe it can be done just because you "say so" and wish to hit your child because other punishment or discipline is inconvenient to you.

 

 

 

 
 
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isabellaeden
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May 17, 2008, 11:54 am PDT

Cruel

 Hi Dr. Phil and Robin:
I am sure I posted my feelings re spanking on your wed site.  They are still the same - I would not spank or hit or say nasty things to our children.  I treated our two children as friends at times; if they spilled a glass of milk, (instead of getting angry even tho I was tired, I'd just smile and say it is ok and clean up the mess.  As they grew they helped clean up the mess.
Both are PHD's - in Philosophy - son Engineering Science, daughter - education
proud of them and the way they respect others and are giving people which we need more of.  Parents need to stay home or at least spend time with them teaching them what is acceptable or not.  Only takes 5 years and the learning stays with them forever.  I did want to express my distaste at the lady? you had on your show - her attitude toward her children showed hatred, not love and she really needs  to be straightened out mentally and physically and so does the husband.  What do they think they are accomplishing?  Treating their lovely children like they are.  The husband needs some education or read a book for heaven's sake.   What a nightmare house to live in.  No thank you.
Thank you very much for reading.  Emma Anderson
 
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