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Topic : Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

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Created on : Thursday, June 30, 2005, 12:50:41 pm
Author : dataimport
Is spanking a necessary evil or can you discipline effectively without physical punishment? Sound off about spanking.

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Earthymama
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May 26, 2008, 7:44 pm PDT

Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

Quote From: mama_tam

It isn't really my interpretation.  If you have a Greek/Hebrew lexicon handy, you're welcome to look it up.  It's pretty clear about what to DO with that rod.  No way to misinterpret that.

I made more sacrifices for my children than you could possibly know.  I got up off the couch when I was deathly ill to care for them or discipline them consistently when it would have been easier to let it go.  Their souls, their very eternities were on the line.  It's ME, I have to answer to God for their souls.  I am responsible for teaching the the right path.  ME.  Not you, not anyone else, ME.  I took that job seriously.  You better believe I did. 

I repeat this again.  My children were pleasant to be around.  I never felt like pulling my hair out or shipping them off to the babysitter.  I can count on ONE HAND the times they went to a sitter.  They went with us when we went out and they acted like little ladies because obedience had already been established.

Maybe it didn't save their lives.  I wouldn't know because they never ran into the street or anything else like that.  If I said stop they did so, immediately and without question.

I have a friend who couldn't take her child to a restaurant until she was 7 or 8 years old because evertime she tried, without fair, they would end up carrying her kicking and screaming to the car without their meal OR their family outing.  They didn't believe in spanking so they just took her out of the situation.  Do you have any idea the things that child missed out on?  And do you think it benefitted her?  She's 16 years old now and she hates her parents and "expresses" it every chance she gets.  It's too late for her. 

We didn't have "scenes" with our children BECAUSE we established obedience very early.  We went to fancy restaurants and they behaved like ladies.  We went to the grocery and they waited patiently with me in line while other kids were rearranging the store.  I was HAPPY raising my children.  I enjoyed them!  I wouldn't give up my child raising years for anything.  I have an excellent relationship with both of my girls and I am proud of how they are raising my grandchildren.  I can stand to be around them. 

You all can say whatever you want, have your own opions, but I wouldn't trade my life for any other and I certainly wouldn't put my children or myself through some of the things you people on here have described. 

I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE DELIBERATELY ALLOWING MY CHILD TO FALL OUT OF HER HIGH CHAIR SO SHE COULD LEARN WHY IT IS IMPORTANT TO SIT!  What I did to my children didn't leave any scars or marks!!!!!!
I have to point out you say you didn't have scense with you children because you establish obedience early on.  well I have too with out spanking my  children.   I have a two year old I took to deers...now I am guessing you know what deers is and the pain it is with the wait.  and I was told all the time what a great child I had because by the time they get called the child is acting out.  well mine isn't he says hi and state there while we did what we needed too and was great.   He's 2 and I have never spanked him.

Just because I don't spank doesn't mean I am a bad parent you talk about being ill and getting up to take care of your children.  I know that too....I was very very very ill a couple of winters ago when my husband was deployed and did the same thing got up every morning and walked my son to the bus stop in -20 weather with a baby to get him to school and to pick him up.  I stayed on top of his behavior and never had a problem all the while with out spanking him.

I think it's great you are proud of your children.  I disagree with the way you got them to behave.  that's all.

My children also haven't been to a sitter....well my oldest was when I worked and was a single mom.  but not since.  I don't have a sitter for date nights with hubby as those are just family date nights.  if we do date night we get take out from our fav place put the kids to bed and have dinner in bed.  it works for us.  I am due in nov with my husband being gone while I deliver this baby.  I have to find a sitter.  I tell you it worried me until I found her.  she is a friend and the kids behave with her.  and she isn't a push over so when they test to see how far they know she don't play around.  I am sure you agree it's hard to find a good sitter and one you trust that isn't family.  well I have and yes I hate the idea..but I can't labor on my own with a 3 (my 2 yo will be 3 by then and a 7 ) all worried why I am in pain while giving birth.  I admit I can't parent with that being an issue.  I don't think any woman would be able too.

I never let my child fall out of a high chair either.  that could really hurt them.  and honestly I don't think it would teach them much.  So you and I agree there and that's a good spot to agree on.
 
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Earthymama
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May 26, 2008, 7:49 pm PDT

Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

Quote From: mama_tam

I never implied you were a bad parent.  I don't even know you.  For all I know you could have charming little gentlement.  I can only form my opinions on what I have seen with my own eyes.  Being a former daycare provider, I've seen so much evidence to support my point that I ended up quitting my job.

I wasn't trying to be rude, just stating a fact. 

I think I'm about to prove my point about having the same ideas of right and wrong but here goes.  By straight I meant not gay.
so you think because someone doesn't spank there child will become gay?

I am sorry but I know many gay and  bi people  one being my  cousin who is like a daughter to me.  who were spanked as children.  some have problems from the spankings some don't.  but spanking them isn't want made them gay or kept them straight.

Also it's not a fact that I don't know right from wrong because I of a different faith or don't believe in the bible like you do.  Also there have been other christians on this board that dissagree with you.

and yes I have Charming little gentlemen. they have moment like any child does but they do it at home.  but they are little gentlemen.  every night when I make thier dinner I get a big thank you mommy.  and when we are out to eat and they get there food they say thank you.

I have seen many spanked children that behave the way you claim non spanked children are. 
 
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May 26, 2008, 7:52 pm PDT

Frist, get a real medical opinion.

Quote From: mwalker

 This is my first time on here.

im just writing cause my cousin's 3 year old some is showing signs of add or adhd and nothing she does helps to get him under control.He runs all over her and we dont know what to do. she has talked to someone and they just say that there's nothing that can be done because he is too young to medicate..they havent even really done the testing on him for it .He is just out of control so if you have any advice please lend it . she is at her wits end here . thanks

At three years old they are saying he's ADHD and too young to be medicated.  I'll agree with the second part; he's too young to be medicated.  You don't give a three year old drugs!  This first part I'll disagree with forever.  I've said before, when our generation (30 plus), was growing up, there was no ADHD.  You paid attention or you got punished.  May be a spanking by your parents, but may be by teachers as well.  I once was hit in the back by a book by a teacher for not listening, hit on the head with a zippo lighter too.  I saw other students get their mouths taped shut with duct tape for not shutting up in class, hit with a paddle for misbehaving,  and thrown across the room into a wall for disrespecting the teacher.  I am NOT saying I agree with these methods of discipline.  What I am saying is when we were growing up, that's the way it was.  And we listened because we knew what could happen.  Today, authority figures can't do these things to kids and now there is ADHD.  Pay attention or get punished, don't pay attention and you have a disorder.  It's crap!  Give me any child diagnosed with ADHD.  I'll give him  a Playstation and I bet he pays attention to the game!  It's not the kids' fault.  I remember high school.  I had a history teacher who made class fun.  I got A's all year.  I had a biology teacher who was a nasty bitch.  I got D's and F's.  Parents and teachers need to grab a child's attention and keep it.  But to say a kid who doesn't pay attention has a disorder is ridiculous.  He doesn't have discipline.
 
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May 26, 2008, 7:53 pm PDT

Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

Quote From: feistyd

No, what you are dealing with are people who have raised or are in the process of raising bright, creative, intelligent, respectful, moral, ethical, responsible children WITHOUT spanking. I can't figure out why you can't accept that. It would appear that you can't handle the truth... which is that yes it is done and done well.

 

'They don't even have the same basic idea of right and wrong that we have.' (your words exactly)

Who are 'they' ... parents who choose not to spank?

 

How very judgmental of you and not true at all!

 

 

I didn't say you didn't have morals.  I said you didn't have the SAME idea of right and wrong.  How could you, you don't believe in the Bible.  I didn't mean to imply that you have NO idea of right and wrong. 

Look, I've been accused of being insane, lazy, criminal, wanting to stone my children or give them lethal injections, smaking them around to "shut them the hell up" and an abundance of other rude and extremely obnoxious accusations AND YOU'RE GIVING ME CRAP about stating the obvious??????

I was only trying to tell the person who posted the scripture that he/she was wasting her time because that would only apply to those people who actually believe them.

Who's judgmental????
 
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May 26, 2008, 8:05 pm PDT

Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

Quote From: charise820

I have to point out you say you didn't have scense with you children because you establish obedience early on.  well I have too with out spanking my  children.   I have a two year old I took to deers...now I am guessing you know what deers is and the pain it is with the wait.  and I was told all the time what a great child I had because by the time they get called the child is acting out.  well mine isn't he says hi and state there while we did what we needed too and was great.   He's 2 and I have never spanked him.

Just because I don't spank doesn't mean I am a bad parent you talk about being ill and getting up to take care of your children.  I know that too....I was very very very ill a couple of winters ago when my husband was deployed and did the same thing got up every morning and walked my son to the bus stop in -20 weather with a baby to get him to school and to pick him up.  I stayed on top of his behavior and never had a problem all the while with out spanking him.

I think it's great you are proud of your children.  I disagree with the way you got them to behave.  that's all.

My children also haven't been to a sitter....well my oldest was when I worked and was a single mom.  but not since.  I don't have a sitter for date nights with hubby as those are just family date nights.  if we do date night we get take out from our fav place put the kids to bed and have dinner in bed.  it works for us.  I am due in nov with my husband being gone while I deliver this baby.  I have to find a sitter.  I tell you it worried me until I found her.  she is a friend and the kids behave with her.  and she isn't a push over so when they test to see how far they know she don't play around.  I am sure you agree it's hard to find a good sitter and one you trust that isn't family.  well I have and yes I hate the idea..but I can't labor on my own with a 3 (my 2 yo will be 3 by then and a 7 ) all worried why I am in pain while giving birth.  I admit I can't parent with that being an issue.  I don't think any woman would be able too.

I never let my child fall out of a high chair either.  that could really hurt them.  and honestly I don't think it would teach them much.  So you and I agree there and that's a good spot to agree on.
I know deers.  Sheesh.  Everything in the military is hurry and wait.  I also know how hard it is to raise children when your husband is deployed or on a TDY.  You might as well be a single mother. 

I'm not trying to say anyone is a bad parent.  I was just stating my case and sharing what I've seen with my own eyes.  I certainly would never fault you for having a sittler while you give birth.  I feel for you.  I know how hard it is to even make a friend when you aren't in one spot for long enough to build much of a relationship with anyone much less the kind of trust it takes to allow someone to keep your children for any length of time.  You are definately lucky to have found someone.

I don't mind that you disagree as long as I can too.   ;)
 
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May 26, 2008, 8:10 pm PDT

Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

Quote From: charise820

so you think because someone doesn't spank there child will become gay?

I am sorry but I know many gay and  bi people  one being my  cousin who is like a daughter to me.  who were spanked as children.  some have problems from the spankings some don't.  but spanking them isn't want made them gay or kept them straight.

Also it's not a fact that I don't know right from wrong because I of a different faith or don't believe in the bible like you do.  Also there have been other christians on this board that dissagree with you.

and yes I have Charming little gentlemen. they have moment like any child does but they do it at home.  but they are little gentlemen.  every night when I make thier dinner I get a big thank you mommy.  and when we are out to eat and they get there food they say thank you.

I have seen many spanked children that behave the way you claim non spanked children are. 
No  I don't think that if you don't spank your child will become gay.  I think that it's wrong to be gay.  This is what I was talking about when I said we have a different idea of right and wrong. 

I didn't say you had NO idea of right and wrong.  I said we don't have the SAME idea.

I have seen spanked children act that way, too.  Whatever method of discipline you use, it has to be consistent or, in my opinion, it's just abuse.  If you spank every 5th occasion of a certain bad behavior, you are just hitting for no reason.  That's abuse.  But it's the same if you use time out or taking toys or whatever your preferred method. 
 
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feistyd
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May 26, 2008, 8:13 pm PDT

Ummm...try again

Quote From: mama_tam

I didn't say you didn't have morals.  I said you didn't have the SAME idea of right and wrong.  How could you, you don't believe in the Bible.  I didn't mean to imply that you have NO idea of right and wrong. 

Look, I've been accused of being insane, lazy, criminal, wanting to stone my children or give them lethal injections, smaking them around to "shut them the hell up" and an abundance of other rude and extremely obnoxious accusations AND YOU'RE GIVING ME CRAP about stating the obvious??????

I was only trying to tell the person who posted the scripture that he/she was wasting her time because that would only apply to those people who actually believe them.

Who's judgmental????

Who said I didn't believe in the Bible?? lol

 

When did I 'give you crap'? Because I don't agree with you? You are dealing with other adults here... we don't have to agree with you just because you say so!

 

Whether I do or not has nothing to do with if I think spanking is NECESSARY...No, I don't... do I think discipline is necessary- absolutely.

 

As far as judgmental, I haven't condemned any parent posting of being bad, lazy, unloving, abusive, ect etc... I have said I do not think spanking is necessary and that is it. Like I said before, it just seems you can't accept that there are successful parents who have not spanked their children... I can. 

 

I have also asked if you and othe parents who spank thought they could have got the same results with their children without spanking. Also, if you could why would you not utilize them? No one was able to answer.

 

This message board is about the necessity of spanking, not my spirituality, faith and so forth, so I do not have any intention of debating that with anyone on this message board.
 
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May 26, 2008, 8:23 pm PDT

Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

Quote From: coachjoeh

At three years old they are saying he's ADHD and too young to be medicated.  I'll agree with the second part; he's too young to be medicated.  You don't give a three year old drugs!  This first part I'll disagree with forever.  I've said before, when our generation (30 plus), was growing up, there was no ADHD.  You paid attention or you got punished.  May be a spanking by your parents, but may be by teachers as well.  I once was hit in the back by a book by a teacher for not listening, hit on the head with a zippo lighter too.  I saw other students get their mouths taped shut with duct tape for not shutting up in class, hit with a paddle for misbehaving,  and thrown across the room into a wall for disrespecting the teacher.  I am NOT saying I agree with these methods of discipline.  What I am saying is when we were growing up, that's the way it was.  And we listened because we knew what could happen.  Today, authority figures can't do these things to kids and now there is ADHD.  Pay attention or get punished, don't pay attention and you have a disorder.  It's crap!  Give me any child diagnosed with ADHD.  I'll give him  a Playstation and I bet he pays attention to the game!  It's not the kids' fault.  I remember high school.  I had a history teacher who made class fun.  I got A's all year.  I had a biology teacher who was a nasty bitch.  I got D's and F's.  Parents and teachers need to grab a child's attention and keep it.  But to say a kid who doesn't pay attention has a disorder is ridiculous.  He doesn't have discipline.
Well said!  My youngest had a different style of learning and she struggled in school but when I began homeschooling she did very well. 

My daughter has a friend who's child was actually diagnosed with Opposite Defecit Disorder (ODD).  I am NOT kidding!  He does the opposite of everything his mother tells him to do.  Well, unless she tells him to hit his sister, take the toy he wants or eat a candybar.  It's unbelievable that people can't relate the lack of discipline with the problems in our society today. 

Back when the good old fashioned spanking was still acceptable, as a rule, kids didn't kill their parents, shoot their classmates, overdose on drugs, contract STDs, attack their teachers or commit suicide.  I know you had that rare occasion when they sent a teenage girl to "Aunt Martha's" house for a few months till she had the baby or some boys were caught smoking behind the barn but for the most part, kids were respectful and obedient.  No so since the New Age movement began in the 50s and 60s.  What's it gonna take for people to realize this is not helping our world?
 
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fredastare
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May 26, 2008, 8:29 pm PDT

Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

Quote From: mama_tam

It isn't really my interpretation.  If you have a Greek/Hebrew lexicon handy, you're welcome to look it up.  It's pretty clear about what to DO with that rod.  No way to misinterpret that.

I made more sacrifices for my children than you could possibly know.  I got up off the couch when I was deathly ill to care for them or discipline them consistently when it would have been easier to let it go.  Their souls, their very eternities were on the line.  It's ME, I have to answer to God for their souls.  I am responsible for teaching the the right path.  ME.  Not you, not anyone else, ME.  I took that job seriously.  You better believe I did. 

I repeat this again.  My children were pleasant to be around.  I never felt like pulling my hair out or shipping them off to the babysitter.  I can count on ONE HAND the times they went to a sitter.  They went with us when we went out and they acted like little ladies because obedience had already been established.

Maybe it didn't save their lives.  I wouldn't know because they never ran into the street or anything else like that.  If I said stop they did so, immediately and without question.

I have a friend who couldn't take her child to a restaurant until she was 7 or 8 years old because evertime she tried, without fair, they would end up carrying her kicking and screaming to the car without their meal OR their family outing.  They didn't believe in spanking so they just took her out of the situation.  Do you have any idea the things that child missed out on?  And do you think it benefitted her?  She's 16 years old now and she hates her parents and "expresses" it every chance she gets.  It's too late for her. 

We didn't have "scenes" with our children BECAUSE we established obedience very early.  We went to fancy restaurants and they behaved like ladies.  We went to the grocery and they waited patiently with me in line while other kids were rearranging the store.  I was HAPPY raising my children.  I enjoyed them!  I wouldn't give up my child raising years for anything.  I have an excellent relationship with both of my girls and I am proud of how they are raising my grandchildren.  I can stand to be around them. 

You all can say whatever you want, have your own opions, but I wouldn't trade my life for any other and I certainly wouldn't put my children or myself through some of the things you people on here have described. 

I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE DELIBERATELY ALLOWING MY CHILD TO FALL OUT OF HER HIGH CHAIR SO SHE COULD LEARN WHY IT IS IMPORTANT TO SIT!  What I did to my children didn't leave any scars or marks!!!!!!

I'm not going to get into biblical debate about the origins of the word and the various translations thru about 2 millenia here.

 

Trust me, I am a major word nerd....know lots and lots about words and their origins.  Linguistics is a weird hobby of mine.

 

You sound incredibly frustrated and I'm sorry for that.  I am however NOT sorry that I find spanking to be an appalling practise, that is IMO abusive, regardless of religion, regardless of anything...I think it's cruel and should be illegal.

 

Do I think YOU were a bad or terrible parent.  Not really.  I think you did what you thought was the best thing at the time.  I bet you would give your life up for your children or grandchildren in a New York minute.

 

I simply am trying to make my point that spanking is not a good thing.  I feel it's barbaric, and I feel those that condone it are really reaching for a straw.  Spanking is a very lazy and often dangerous way out of truly dealing with children and their being children.

 

As for your final paragraph....I TOO couldn't imagine deliberately allowing my child to fall from a highchair or inflicted any harm what so ever upon herself???  What are you implying?  That non or anti spanker's just allow our children to bloody themselves silly?

 

Please, I find this a tad melodramatic in making this sort of proclamation.

 

My daughter NEVER was left to dangerously dangle and fall from her highchair, she never was run down by a car, she never touched the stove.....all without being spanked.  It CAN be done, and it IS being done....I thank God for that.

 

No more hitting our precious children.

 

 

That's a concept I am very pleased about and I hope it continues to grow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 
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May 26, 2008, 8:43 pm PDT

Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

Quote From: fredastare

I'm not going to get into biblical debate about the origins of the word and the various translations thru about 2 millenia here.

 

Trust me, I am a major word nerd....know lots and lots about words and their origins.  Linguistics is a weird hobby of mine.

 

You sound incredibly frustrated and I'm sorry for that.  I am however NOT sorry that I find spanking to be an appalling practise, that is IMO abusive, regardless of religion, regardless of anything...I think it's cruel and should be illegal.

 

Do I think YOU were a bad or terrible parent.  Not really.  I think you did what you thought was the best thing at the time.  I bet you would give your life up for your children or grandchildren in a New York minute.

 

I simply am trying to make my point that spanking is not a good thing.  I feel it's barbaric, and I feel those that condone it are really reaching for a straw.  Spanking is a very lazy and often dangerous way out of truly dealing with children and their being children.

 

As for your final paragraph....I TOO couldn't imagine deliberately allowing my child to fall from a highchair or inflicted any harm what so ever upon herself???  What are you implying?  That non or anti spanker's just allow our children to bloody themselves silly?

 

Please, I find this a tad melodramatic in making this sort of proclamation.

 

My daughter NEVER was left to dangerously dangle and fall from her highchair, she never was run down by a car, she never touched the stove.....all without being spanked.  It CAN be done, and it IS being done....I thank God for that.

 

No more hitting our precious children.

 

 

That's a concept I am very pleased about and I hope it continues to grow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can accept that you disagree with me.  To each his own.  I just don't think it's ok to call names or sling accusations about someone you don't even know because of a belief they hold.  If you haven't done that, then it doesn't apply to you but there are those who have ad nauseum. 

And the high chair comment came from a poster who believed that allowing her daughter to stand up in her highchair and suffer the consequences was preferrable to spanking her and making her sit.  As a result the child was injured. 

It reminds me of the parenting class I had to take in order to get my daycare license on base.  They taught "cause and effect".  If you have trouble getting your child to get up in the morning for school, you simply make them go to school wearing their pajamas.  Do you realize what that would do to a child?  You would be allowing their peers to be the disciplinarians of your child.  Kids are cruel!  The child would be emotionally scarred for the rest of his/her life!  It utterly rediculous! 

In another example, the scenario was a child who wouldn't wear their mittens.  The solution was to allow the child to play outside without them.  The idea being the child would get cold and come in for the mittens.  Maybe, maybe not.  But once their little fingers were frost bitten, wouldn't it be a high price to pay fo the lesson learned?

I never had to spank my children for not getting up for school.  They did because they feared the consequences if they didn't.  And it WASN'T making them go to school in their pajamas.  And they war their mittens because their mother told them they had to.  They didn't get a choice. 

I guess I just don't understand how those methods of "discipline" are any better than my method.  It was less messy and definately less emotionally scarring.
 
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