Topic : Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

 But if wearing jewlery is that bothersome for some people, then I suggest they begin a petition.  Until then, they don't stand a chance of passing such laws in America.

I find Fundamental Christianity "bothersome"....yet I would NEVER ...make a law that people can't practice it.  The key word is "practice" (which would include following the women's fashion rule if one was SINCERE) ....not demand others do as well.

Honestly KL...you question my sincerity...because you...yourself....are not sincere in following the word of God.  If you were...your life would be very different. 

yeah right!

So now the EPA, which YOU brought into the discussion to show that Cameron's research on homosexual lifespan as being valid MUST be biased or afraid of controversy????? WOW.

I know, I should not have said that.  I have no reason to believe that the EPA can be swayed, and I think that they handled box turtle and the Cameron controversy rather proffessionally, so a retraction is definately in order.

The focus of our debate was Cameron's research on homosexual lifespans...NOT population.

And I'm suggesting that the methodology for collecting data on population (which the EPA did approve of) would also suffice for a life expectancy study.

His research on population was good enough, can we atleast agree on that?  I promise, I won't ask for a trophy or a crown, lol.

You think you are deserving of a crown or trophy for your ability to spin a debate?? I already knew you were good at that!

The focus of our debate was Cameron's research on homosexual lifespans...NOT population. So if e are going to agree on anything to put this aspect of the debate to rest, it will have to be this.

It is FALSE to claim that Cameron's research was "good enough" for the EPA. I WILL take a crown, thanks!

None of this answers my question.

Here's the thing...if you want me to be a bible believer...just like you....then I get to NOT FOLLOW some of the bible rules JUST LIKE YOU DO.   If you want me to be a bible believer...JUST LIKE YOU ...then I get to have my own opinion on homosexuality (bible rule)...and women's fashion (bible rule)...JUST LIKE YOU.

I get to have my own opinion on the definition of marriage...JUST LIKE YOU .. You feel that marriage should be just a man and woman...THEN DON'T MARRY A WOMAN.  I feel expensive shoes is a biggie against God...then I WON'T WEAR EXPENSIVE SHOES. 

Being a bible believer doesn't mean I am an extension of you.  If I felt like...I could be a homosexual...go to California and marry a woman....and I would be no more a sinner...THEN YOU.  Just different breakage of bible rules...that's all.  One is no more worse then the other.

You break the rules (and plan on continuing)...and go to heaven because Jesus saves...then homosexuals break the rules (and plan on continuing) and go to heaven because Jesus saves.

Your no special then homosexuals.....you sin too.

And I'm suggesting that the methodology for collecting data on population (which the EPA did approve of) would also suffice for a life expectancy study.

No...one deals with the percentage of homosexuals in the population...the other deals with the lifespan of homosexuals. Not even REMOTELY sufficient. Are you sure you understand research? One of the key elements is validity...does the research measure what it intends to measure...measuring the percent of homosexuals in the population in NO WAY measures how long they live.

None of this answers my question.

It answers the question of whether or not Cameron's research on homosexual lifespans was "good enough" for the EPA. It was NOT. There is NOTHING to support that claim. Cameron got into the convention by LYING about what he was going to present.

I know, I should not have said that.  I have no reason to believe that the EPA can be swayed, and I think that they handled box turtle and the Cameron controversy rather proffessionally, so a retraction is definately in order.

Thank you. You can have a crown for that. It is the first time I have seen you take something back.

However, you still feel that rules of women's attire...is an EXCEPTION to you...but the rules of sex are not?

lol, did I say that I don't think so!

So what?  For thousands of years women have been oppressed.  Does that mean we must continue?  People were slaves....must it continue? 

No, and none of these were time honored expectations for human civilizations all over the world.

Just because something is thousands of years doesn't mean it has to continue..... 

Doesn't necessarily mean that it should change either.

I smoke, have all my life, plan on quitting someday but according to your logic i should I should continue just because I always have?

According to my logic????  I have always spoken against activites that are detrimental to one's health.  Speaking of smoking, there have been a number of laws put in place recently for the purpose of prohibiting cigarette use, I also support those restrictions.  And for the sake of your own health, Sugar, I hope that you will consider quiting.

Why is gay marriage "bothersome" to you?

???? For a number of reasons that I have already discussed.  Have you been ignoring them?

You are begining to sound less and less sincere with each post... are you interested in a relationship with God, baiting me, or just making excuses?

OMG!  Because I challenge you and YOUR  interpretation of the bible...then I must be insincere with wanting a relationship with God???  Are you God?  Who died and left you God?

People just have to view God the way you do....and agree with all your rules...and your breaking

of these rules...or we're just "insincere". 

You know what KL....debating with you makes me realize...that most of the crap in the bible were just people writing stuff and saying God said it.....so that folks will do and think what THEY do.

You don't have an answer ....so you just pass it off as to me being insincere....how convenient.

No need to "rant and rave" Sugar, I'm just curious.  And none of this answers my question.

Hi KL!

Indeed, some cultural expectations were man made.  For instance, at the time when Paul was writing to Timothy, the only women who wore jewelery were prostitutes...

And you KNOW this information how?

does this make sense... earings were not a fashion statement at that time, rather they were the markings of a slave.

So the prostitutes were all slaves?  And you know this how?  And why not "actually" say prostitutes instead of "women"?  I mean I bet the Bible mentions the word prostitute plenty of times.....just leave it out in this passage,for interpretation?

In any event- whether one is a slave to fashion, money, prostitution, same sex desires, or anything else-  those strongholds have been defeated at the cross, and we may be set free.

I suppose then I had better donate my computer, much of my clothing and jewellery and sell off our stocks, bonds and most all of our other assets and wander about like a gypsy then.  Because ATTB this is what seems to be required.

OR I could just say I'm "saved" and that I believe in Jesus as my Saviour.....how convenient for me.   =)

The darnedest thing is that I have ACTUALLY come to BELIEVE in Jesus as "my" personal Saviour....and that sure as hell wasn't out of convenience for me.  It was a STRUGGLE for me.....but it works for me.  And not like some sort of "insurance" either.....it's a RELATIONSHIP that I adore.  Nothing less nothing more.

I kinda think He understands my relationship with Him and my disdain for much of the Bible's wording.  Besides, I think He "gets" why I have what I have.....and He's knows what is in my heart.   =)

<3

Fredi

No...one deals with the percentage of homosexuals in the population...the other deals with the lifespan of homosexuals. Not even REMOTELY sufficient.

What does any of this have to do with Cameron's methodology and the data he collected?  In other words, if the EPA approved of Cameron collecting information from the census in regards to a population study, why disapprove of him collecting information in the same fashion in regards to life expectancy?

I know, I should not have said that.  I have no reason to believe that the EPA can be swayed, and I think that they handled box turtle and the Cameron controversy rather proffessionally, so a retraction is definately in order.

Thank you. You can have a crown for that. It is the first time I have seen you take something back.

I say it when I mean it.  Perhaps you have missed the other times, then, lol

lol, did I say that I don't think so!

Yes, when you post bias post after bias post against homosexuality....so it fits with your religion...and the bible rules...then turn around and wear expensive clothes....then you feel YOU are an exception.

No, and none of these were time honored expectations for human civilizations all over the world.

Marriage between one man and one woman is not a time honored expectation for human civilizations either.  Many civilizations and even religions believe in having more then one spouse.  Also...there is an African tribe...that is a lesbian tribe...they only use men to reproduce.  There have been many lesbian tribes throughout civilization.  So no...it's not world wide nor time honored.  Just a rule...bible rule ...if you will...just like wearing "costly array".  Just a bible rule that other religions have also adapted or agreed with....but not all.

Doesn't necessarily mean that it should change either.

lol..okay then!  Let's bring back slavery and women's oppression. 

I have always spoken against activites that are detrimental to one's health. 

How is gay marriage detrimental to one's health?

Speaking of smoking, there have been a number of laws put in place recently for the purpose of prohibiting cigarette use, I also support those restrictions.

We're using YOUR logic KL!!  Yes...but there USED TO BE for hundreds of years...no law against these things.  So according to Your LOGIC....because for hundreds of years people could smoke in public establishments...they should continue?    This is your logic KL>..take responsibility for it.,

???? For a number of reasons that I have already discussed.  Have you been ignoring them?

OKay...a.  it's against the bible....YOU do things against the bible   b.  It's dangerous   ....CAR RACE DRIVING is dangerous...so is parachuting and even driving a car.  Do you drive a car KL?  Well I find that bothersome because you might get in an accident.

Those are the two things.....other then that WHY DO YOU FIND GAY MARRIAGE (for others not yourself) BOTHERSOME?   How about I post...post after post how many accidents women have in high heels and anyway it's against God's rule of "costly array"?  How about I post how bad certain shoes are for women's feet and DEMAND you wear army boots?

No need to "rant and rave" Sugar, I'm just curious

I see, you can sit there and judge my sincerity (a rant and rave in itself) but I can't respond?  Why...because you've set yourself above me?

And none of this answers my question.

YES!!!  I'm interested in a relationship with God.  But not your idea of a relationship with God....  That would be like asking me if I'm interested in a relationship with your husband....and your willing to share him with me but I have to live vicariously through YOUR RELATIONSHIP with him. 

Does everyone have to be an extension of you...or they're just not interested in having a relationship with God? 

OMG....Charise,

Was up "uber" early and off to the Farmers Market with my girlfriend so while I was awaiting her arrival I was sipping my coffee....still half asleep and playing on the machine.

Ohhhh I'm so excited, got me 5 LARGE heads of cabbage.....tomorrow the house will stink to high heaven whilst I make a winters stash worth of cabbage rolls....LMAOFFFF!

I love you new avatar.....very "fall" like, can you believe the leaves are just beginning to turn up here?

So beautiful....but, the downside is we have OMG hundreds upon hundreds of leaves to clean up each fall.

How are you doing missy?

<3

Fredi