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Topic : Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

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Created on : Saturday, April 22, 2006, 09:13:50 am
Author : xoxo19

The purpose of this board is to debate your views about a particular religion or belief. I understand Religion is a touchy subject, but this board is designed for you to ask questions as well as present arguments for your particular Religion or belief.

 

You can definitely challenge others, but no calling others names. Feel free to debate away.


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Earthymama
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October 22, 2008, 7:25 am PDT

Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

Quote From: nscrchick

I do admire you Charise, and it is wonderful that you kept Alen.  I don't know if it posted or not, but I had said that I would vote for a ban on abortion, and I would still vote for it with a provision for rape and incest.  I have been in a somewhat similar situation and i know from where I speak.  But I stand by belief that the little blob in side a woman is a baby from the moment of conception, and it is a human being.
My whole point it's not the same for everyone. and some seem to think it is.

there were times where Alen was just a blob of cells even when I could feel him moving.  being pregnant is suppose to be joyful time and I can tell you his wasn't but ricky's was great and even though I have I had problems with Autumn hers is too.

All I am saying is for me there is a difference and I can understand why some woman choose that path.
 
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kustomlady
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October 22, 2008, 12:05 pm PDT

Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

"I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." Martin Luther King Jr, 1963

 

Has the dream been realized?  Or are we still divided into constituency groups, where we are judged by all manner of ethnicity and special interests rather than the individual and national character King envisioned?

 

Good day everyone!
 
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kustomlady
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October 22, 2008, 12:22 pm PDT

Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

Quote From: momisme2

Sounds to me like Planned Parenthood understands all the bs a sexually abused child may face if she is forced to tell her parent (most likely her mother) that she was raped by her father, step father, uncle etc., and is trying to actually HELP the child.

 

I would guesstimate that about 95% of the time a sexually abused child becomes pregnant by a family member(most often father or step father) the mother will NOT help her in any way shape or form.  The mother will blame the child for the adults actions. 

 

Reporting sexual abuse of a child is of course the right and proper thing to do however in the real world it doesent often do any bit of good.  It is NOT the be all end all answer to child sexual abuse.  Most times it only works against the child and makes it all the worse for them.  It is a very rare situation where the mother of a sexually abused child actually gives a flying fig.  Time after time after time the child gets blamed and is left with no options.  Even law inforcement doesent seem to give much of a care. 

 

At least there is someplace a 13 yo child can turn to where they actually UNDERSTAND the horrors most sexually abused children face and are willing to help them even if it means breaking the law.  Maybe if these childrens mother acted in the proper way regarding these situations Planned Parenthood wouldnt be forced to take such drastic measures.  But Planned Parenthood has to deal with the real world, not some random Pollyanna idea of how things are.  In the real world, 95% of the time(if it not more) it is the abused child who gets the shaft while the abuser and their co consipirator get away scott free.  You can argue the rights and wrong of this till the cows come home but it wont change the FACTS on how most mothers react to the sexual abuses their husbands inflict upon their child/ren.

 

I say good for Planned Parenthood to step up and help out when the REALITY is that is most likely the one and only place these abused pregnant children will find ANY help at all.

In the real world, 95% of the time(if it not more) it is the abused child who gets the shaft while the abuser and their co consipirator get away scott free.

 

First of all, I have to insist that you provide evidence for this claim.  Furthermore, if rape isn't reported, the abuser gets away 100% of the time, an innocent baby receives the punishment while the perpetrater gets away with rape... and moves on to the next victim.  How does covering up sexual abuse (illegally, I might add) help victims?  How are secret abortions a solution to the problems of sexual abuse?  Is it unrealistic to expect that criminals (not innocent children) are prosecuted and punished?  Victims of sexual abuse need help alright, they need for adults to act like responsible adults and contact the authorities.
 
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kustomlady
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October 22, 2008, 1:11 pm PDT

Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

Quote From: kustomlady

Either one or two die...

 

Since we are on the subject of numbers, 4 million children have been aborted in the last 35 years (that is 1,000 times more deaths than in 100 years of lynchings) In any 35 year span pre dating Roe, how many women do you assume have lost their lives to "back alley" abortions?

 

When a human being can sustain his/her own life...outside of a womb, or life support, then I wholeheartedly agree...we, as a civilized society have a RESPONSIBILITY to make sure they are cared for.

 

This is were we disagree... I believe that as a civilized society we have a responsibility to make sure that ALL human beings, even pre-born children, have CIVIL RIGHTS!

 

If they cannot sustain his/her own life...I will not force any human being to be their steward.

 

Another point of disagreement... whom you call stewards, I call mothers.

Correction... 45 million children have been aborted in the last 35 years.
 
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kustomlady
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October 22, 2008, 1:22 pm PDT

Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

I recently received this email from a pro-life campaign that has begun a 40 day commitment to praying near abortion clinics and ministering- not only to their clientel, but to the employees as well.  I have received some rather amazing updates since the campaing began, and I thought this story to be especially touching.

 

On Saturday a medical worker at a Planned Parenthood
abortion center where a 40 Days for Life campaign is
happening approached the prayer volunteers outside.

She said that Planned Parenthood had told its workers
that they would be immediately fired if they ever
talked to those on the sidewalk, but she felt drawn
to them -- and she shared that she desperately wants
out of her job.

She explained that after she started working at
Planned Parenthood earlier this year, the abortion
business assigned her the gruesome task of counting
the baby body parts following each abortion to make
sure everything was removed from the mother.

What she has seen inside the walls of Planned
Parenthood is horrific.

She then shared that several weeks ago a young woman
sat before her registering for an abortion and said,
"I'm so conflicted, should I do this or not?"

She leaned forward and quietly told her, "Don't do
this." The girl left, her baby alive within her.

A co-worker overheard and reported her to the
abortion center's supervisor who wrote her up and put
a stern warning in her employment file.

She asked the 40 Days for Life prayer volunteers if
she could meet Monday with someone who might be able
to help her -- and the time she had available was the
exact time that Jim Pinto, pastoral associate for
Priests for Life, was there in town for his visit to
the 40 Days for Life location.


Jim stopped everything else to pray for her, with
her, and over her. He also connected her with an
organization called The Centurions that helps to
bring abortion providers out of the abortion industry
where they can find forgiveness and healing in Christ
and restore their sense of self-worth.

The 40 Days for Life volunteers are now taking up a
collection to provide for her short-term needs so she
can leave her job immediately and they are helping
her find another job quickly since she is the sole
provider for her four daughters and needs income.
 
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nscrchick
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October 22, 2008, 7:24 pm PDT

Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

Quote From: momisme2

Sounds to me like Planned Parenthood understands all the bs a sexually abused child may face if she is forced to tell her parent (most likely her mother) that she was raped by her father, step father, uncle etc., and is trying to actually HELP the child.

 

I would guesstimate that about 95% of the time a sexually abused child becomes pregnant by a family member(most often father or step father) the mother will NOT help her in any way shape or form.  The mother will blame the child for the adults actions. 

 

Reporting sexual abuse of a child is of course the right and proper thing to do however in the real world it doesent often do any bit of good.  It is NOT the be all end all answer to child sexual abuse.  Most times it only works against the child and makes it all the worse for them.  It is a very rare situation where the mother of a sexually abused child actually gives a flying fig.  Time after time after time the child gets blamed and is left with no options.  Even law inforcement doesent seem to give much of a care. 

 

At least there is someplace a 13 yo child can turn to where they actually UNDERSTAND the horrors most sexually abused children face and are willing to help them even if it means breaking the law.  Maybe if these childrens mother acted in the proper way regarding these situations Planned Parenthood wouldnt be forced to take such drastic measures.  But Planned Parenthood has to deal with the real world, not some random Pollyanna idea of how things are.  In the real world, 95% of the time(if it not more) it is the abused child who gets the shaft while the abuser and their co consipirator get away scott free.  You can argue the rights and wrong of this till the cows come home but it wont change the FACTS on how most mothers react to the sexual abuses their husbands inflict upon their child/ren.

 

I say good for Planned Parenthood to step up and help out when the REALITY is that is most likely the one and only place these abused pregnant children will find ANY help at all.

95% of the time a mother won't help her child?  Come on.
 
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momisme2
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October 23, 2008, 2:42 am PDT

Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

Quote From: nscrchick

95% of the time a mother won't help her child?  Come on.

I suggest you and KL do some reading up on childhood sexual abuse and the family dynamics of it all.

 

I was being generous with my 95% guesstimate as all the victims ive spoken with regarding childhood sexual abuse(by fathers-step fathers- and I know of victims of uncles too) didnt receive any help from their mothers and were told it was their fault.

 

Its extremely common. 

 

I wont even get into law inforcement and their lack of action.  Far too depressing.
 
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momisme2
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October 23, 2008, 2:51 am PDT

Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

Quote From: kustomlady

In the real world, 95% of the time(if it not more) it is the abused child who gets the shaft while the abuser and their co consipirator get away scott free.

 

First of all, I have to insist that you provide evidence for this claim.  Furthermore, if rape isn't reported, the abuser gets away 100% of the time, an innocent baby receives the punishment while the perpetrater gets away with rape... and moves on to the next victim.  How does covering up sexual abuse (illegally, I might add) help victims?  How are secret abortions a solution to the problems of sexual abuse?  Is it unrealistic to expect that criminals (not innocent children) are prosecuted and punished?  Victims of sexual abuse need help alright, they need for adults to act like responsible adults and contact the authorities.

Kl, you can insist all you want but im not about to waste any of my time siting sources for you.  If you dont believe me then it only goes to show how ignorant you are on the subject of childhood sexual abuse and the family dynamics that go along with it.  Pick up a book.  You will find the evidence. 

 

 Is it unrealistic to expect that criminals (not innocent children) are prosecuted and punished? 

 

Its only unrealistic if youve ever had to deal with such a thing.  I used to believe the law gave a s&*%, then I dealt with them.  In our legal system, it is the perps who get protected while the victims get the shaft.

 

 Victims of sexual abuse need help alright, they need for adults to act like responsible adults and contact the authorities.

 

 And you think this actually happens with the majority of childhood sexual abuse cases?  Perhaps instead of just reading a book or two on the subject, you would do well to speak with some people who have lived this, tried to fight this, and listen to what *actually* happens. 

 

You are in serious need of some education on this subject.
 
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momisme2
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October 23, 2008, 5:03 am PDT

Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

Quote From: nscrchick

95% of the time a mother won't help her child?  Come on.

Michele, here is some info from Wikipedia for you...

 

Another study found that in most cases when children did disclose abuse, the person they talked to did not respond effectively, blamed or rejected the child, and took little or no action to stop the abuse.
 
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October 23, 2008, 4:45 pm PDT

Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

Parents outraged at public elementary's secretive 'coming out' event
http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78829

 

I hope that this little stunt compels more to favor Proposition 8 in November.
 
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