Topic : Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

Someone asked the question, do Christians "preach" to people who shop on Sunday? (or something like that)   

My answer is no.  

Colossians 2:16-17 “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.” Similarly, Romans 14:5 says, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.”  

These Scriptures make it clear, to me anyway, for the Christian, Sabbath-keeping is a matter of spiritual freedom, not a command from God. Sabbath-keeping is a matter that each and every Christian needs to by fully convinced in his/her own mind.  We are to worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday.   

Thanks, that make sense. I have two other questions.. 

If "the reality is found in Christ" and Christ NEVER spoke of homosexuality....it seems sensible that we should concern ourselves with Christ's teachings. 

Also, from the passages I read, some of the same that could be interpreted as condemnation of homosexuality, divorce was a big no-no. Christ himself only seemed to condone it in the sense that if a wife was unfaithful, a husband could cast her out. I couldn't find any mention of a wife leaving voluntarily. I also found that a person who marries a divorced person is considered an adulterer. 

I understand the issue of forgiveness, but if repentance means you STOP committing the sins, doesn't that mean each and every time a divorced person has sex with a new spouse, they are sinning again? If every time a homosexual has sex it is sinning, doesn't the same hold true for remarried people?? So can remarried people truly be Christians? 

First, I don't believe that there are any "BIG BAD sins".  The Bible states that God will be just and fair in His punishment of sin and that on the day of judgment some sin will merit greater punishment than others (Matthew 11:22, 24; Luke 10:12, 14). But the fact that one has to keep in mind is that all sin will be punished by God. The Bible teaches that all of us sin (Romans 3:23) and that the just compensation for sin is eternal death (Romans 6:23).  James 2:10, “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.” Notice his use of the word “stumbles”. It means to make a mistake or fall into error. James is painting a picture of a person who is trying to do the right thing and yet, perhaps unintentionally, commits a sin. What is the consequence? God, through His servant James, states when a person commits even unintentional sin he is guilty of breaking the entire law. A good illustration of this fact is to picture a large window and understand that window to be God’s law. It doesn’t matter if a person throws a very small pebble through the window or several large boulders. The result is the same…the window is broken. In the same way, it doesn’t matter if a person commits one small sin or several huge ones. The result is the same…The person is guilty of breaking God’s law. And the Lord declares that He will not leave the guilty unpunished (Nahum 1:3). 

Jesus ALWAYS upheld the Old Testament Law (Matt 5:17-19) which strictly condemned homosexual acts (not people).  He didn't come to do away with the law, he came to fulfill it. In other words, Jesus inaugurated a new era in which the Law as understood by the Jews of His day would no longer be the guiding principle for the Kingdom of God (Luke 16:16). Nevertheless, Jesus claimed not to have come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it (Matt. 5:17-20). That is, Jesus moved the understanding of the Law from its external, legalistic meaning to its spiritual one. Moving from outward observance to inward motivation and intention is Jesus’ concern (Matt. 5:21, 22, 27, 28). He pushes the Law out to its ultimate meaning (thus filling it full). In this sense Jesus affirmed the heart and the spirit of the Law. He moved to a deeper level of meaning, to the spirit behind the Law which God had intended from the beginning.   

Jesus did not give us a new law. When Jesus was asked which commandment is the greatest, He said, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul and with all thy mind,” (Matt. 22:36, 37). Jesus said the second commandment is like the first, “Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself” (Matt. 22:39). Then He said, “On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets” (Matt. 22:40). Incredibly, Jesus summed up the whole Law and the teaching of the prophets with these two commandments. Behind all of the Law had stood these two great principles of love for God and neighbor. It is important for us to remember that love can never be adequately portrayed in rules or in teachings. It can be seen in the life, death, and resurrection of our Lord. The commandments to love had been there all along; Jesus simply emphasized them in a way that would forever change how we should look at them.  

Malachi 2:16 says that God hates divorce. The Bible definitely encourages remaining singe or reconciliation over remarriage. At the same time, I believe that God offers His mercy and grace to the innocent party in divorce, and allow that person to remarry without it being considered adultery.    

According to the bible, if a person who gets a divorce for any other reason than "marital unfaithfulness" and then gets remarried – that person has committed adultery (Luke 16:18). The question then becomes, is this remarriage an "act" of adultery, or a "state" of adultery. The present tense of the Greek in Matthew 5:32; 19:9; and Luke 16:18 can indicate a continuous state of adultery. At the same time, the present tense in Greek does not always indicate continuous action. Sometimes it simply means that something occurred (Aoristic, Punctiliar, or Gnomic present). For example, the word "divorces" in Matthew 5:32 is present, but divorcing is not a continual action. Only the act of getting remarried itself is adultery. In the OT law, the punishment for an adulterer was death.  At the same time, in Deuteronomy it mentions remarriage after divorce, and does not call it adultery and does not demand the death penalty for the remarried spouse.  Nowhere does the bible expicity state that God hates remarriage.  The Bible nowhere commands a remarried couple to divorce.  Deuteronomy 24: 1-4 does not describe the remarriage as invalid.    

You will find my answer in my post to Julie.  

I'm going to try to be very clear about when I am stating my own personal convictions and when I am debating points of logic or consistency....please bear with me if I falter....  

Jesus moved the understanding of the Law from its external, legalistic meaning to its spiritual one. Moving from outward observance to inward motivation and intention is Jesus’ concern (Matt. 5:21, 22, 27, 28). He pushes the Law out to its ultimate meaning (thus filling it full). In this sense Jesus affirmed the heart and the spirit of the Law. He moved to a deeper level of meaning, to the spirit behind the Law which God had intended from the beginning  

I definitely agree with this. It seems that if people are adhering to Biblical rules simply because they fear eternal damnation, then they haven't internalized a relationship with God...well, I'm not sure they are any more fulfilled than people who "break the rules". This is why I feel compelled to question and  seek out all possible interpretations and understandings of God's word.  

The Bible definitely encourages remaining singe or reconciliation over remarriage. At the same time, I believe that God offers His mercy and grace to the innocent party in divorce, and allow that person to remarry without it being considered adultery.     

Not to be combative, but this seems a bit hypocritical in light of using absolute, literal scripture to condemn homosexuality. Why is it okay to believe that God is merciful in a divorce situation despite what the Bible says, but not homosexuality? Why should homosexuals be forced to live lonely, celibate lives to be "Christians", but divorce (which seems more clearly condemned) gets a free pass?  Why wouldn't God be equally merciful to the innocent homosexual who cannot fake an attraction to the opposite sex, and allow that person to have a loving, fulfilling relationship? 

 For example, the word "divorces" in Matthew 5:32 is present, but divorcing is not a continual action. Only the act of getting remarried itself is adultery  

This just seems like a big giant convenient loophole for heterosexuals. I guess with the divorce rate being what it is, if churches condemned divorce and remarriage as strongly as they condemn homosexuality, the coffers would be quite empty. This gives a free pass to knowingly and intentionally commit the "sin" of divorce and adultery, with the intention of repenting and being forgiving. How would the prayer of repentence go? "Okay God, I know this competely goes against the Bible, which I strenuously preach to everyone else, but I knew You'd forgive me, so let's move on now. After all, THIS adultery is a one time sin....no double jeopardy!!"  

Using that logic, we can all intentionally sin as much we want, knowing we can simply ask for forgiveness afterwards. Can gays have sex, repent, have sex again, repent....? Can their "marriage" be a one time sin if they ask for forgiveness?  

Also, all the passages I found about divorce stated that whosoever married a divorced person was an adulterer. It seemed pretty clear. 

Personally, I don't consider divorce to be a sin. But I really don't think homosexuality is a sin either. I think in the end, God will know our hearts, our intentions, our struggles, and our limitations. God does not simpIy know what we do, He understands why - better than we, or any other human, can understand. It seems a contradiction to believe that God loves us and wants us to be happy and fulfilled and also say that he would want anyone to live a life of loneliness and celibacy simply because we either made a poor marriage choice, or because our sexual and intimate desires are for the same gender.  

Okay - I have NO IDEA how the letters got this big and the spell check is not working - so you are going to have to turn off the grammar part of your brain, please. My little one pulled the H out of my laptop and it still skips!!  

Colossians 2:16-17 “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 

Oh good, you didn't leave out my Pagan festivals. =)   

To the newcomers.....are you all Christian?  If so, why are you debating against each other???   

Ha! you made me laugh outloud with this question :) 

Since you are not Christian maybe you don't realize that Christians don't always agree on the many issues our society deals with?  Fortunately, we usually agree on the the basics :)  Unfortunately, some of us are more offensive with the way we share those basic beliefs than others.