Topic : Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

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Created on : Saturday, April 22, 2006, 09:13:50 am
Author : xoxo19

The purpose of this board is to debate your views about a particular religion or belief. I understand Religion is a touchy subject, but this board is designed for you to ask questions as well as present arguments for your particular Religion or belief.

 

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May 3, 2006, 12:49 pm PDT

Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

Quote From: kerowyn

This event of the past few years has been brought about due to the Holier then thou actions and attitudes of most Christians treating other religions as doormats.   

Just for the record if I MUST be labeled here you might as well consider me Gnostic and or Spiritual in my believes.  

To many fundamentalists Christians with their overtly BIG Churches that start rivaling the Vatican in $$ and Flamboyancy have in many ways deepened most of the rifts in today’s world social order. Acceptance is not in the actions even though it is in the vocabulary of these Holier then though personages. Not easy to hear is it. But having been a outsider to most of the debates looking in I see a Christian majority trying to suffocate brothers and sisters under God who have chosen a different spiritual path. And not just within our own beloved country but world wide.  

We are of one spirit under our Holy Father... no matter birth right or birth place. God is a all loving and caring father. He speaks to each of us in a way that we can understand and acknowledged based on many factors. Hence all the different Religions of the world who seek the same enlightenment Christians do... they just do it in a different way following rules that were set down for their way of cultural life. Kind of a if you want to talk to someone from Russia it is best if you speak their language. Trying to Speak Greek to a Russian the message would be lost. So upon the Dawn of time and civilization God sent his messages to be interrupted by the different cultures and hence (in extreme short explanation) you have many many religions of the world who believe in a higher power and afterlife.  

Difficulties come in the understanding of these many teaching that were sent down ages ago in a vocabulary that held different meanings. Strong case in point during the time of Christ birth how many of you know that the term virgin simply meant “never married” and that there were many documented “virginal” birth of that era. This information having been kept silent for eons by “religious man” in order to utilize religious order to gain control over the masses.  

The over all point is if Christians where not so one sided in life (we’re right you wrong) and set the stage of a more equal and understanding of all religions the word God would be more readily accepted to the masses as a God for ALL brothers and sisters no matter the religion or beliefs. Ala, God, Eyawa, Buddah, Father, Azna, Om… call out any name and our Creator will honor it as long as we honor him.  

America One Nation Under A Loving Creator of ALL who resides within and without its borders.  

Blessed Be  

 

 

  

 

"We are of one spirit under our Holy Father"

  

 

 

  

 

Not true.  If someone worships budda, satan, adi da, the moon and sun, mohammed,

  

 

etc, they are not of the same spirit as a Christian who worships Jesus Christ and His

  

 

Father.

  

 

 

  

 

John 14:6

  

 

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

  

 

 

  

 

"You have many many religions of the world who believe in a higher power and afterlife" God is a all loving and caring father.

  

 

 

  

 

                It's not enough to just believe in a higher power or afterlife.  And God is 

                also a jealous God of wrath. 

 

  

 

Revelation 3:16, 19

  

 

Thus saith the Lord:

  

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue (vomit) thee out of my mouth.

  

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

  

 

  

"During the time of Christ birth how many of you know that the term virgin simply meant “never married” and that there were many documented “virginal” birth of that era."

  

                That may be true during that time, but it did not apply to

  

                Mary, the birth mother of Jesus the Son of God.

  

  Luke 1:34-38

  

Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

  

 

 35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

  

 

37For with God nothing shall be impossible.

  

"The over all point is if Christians where not so one sided in life (we’re right you wrong) and set the stage of a more equal and understanding of all religions the word God would be more readily accepted to the masses as a God for ALL brothers and sisters no matter the religion or beliefs."

  

  

 

                       Christians Do understand that humans are all given free will (equality)  

                       to choose their God and their spiritual path in life.  Ours would not be  

                       the only religious view to say (we’re right you’re wrong), yet Christians 

                       are targeted and made the “bad guys” in every scenario of this type.   

                       That’s okay, Jesus told us in the bible that would happen, because it 

                       happened to Him.    

                       We can listen to and try to understand another’s beliefs all we want to, 

                        but to adopt, accept, or condone another’s religious practice that is 

                        contrary to our own would be blasphemy against the one we call our 

                        Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  He expects us to spread his word, but not 

                        to condemn.  Christians who condemn (telling you you're going to hell 

                        if  you don't change), are commiting sin. 

  

 
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May 3, 2006, 2:00 pm PDT

Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

Quote From: hazel_eyes

 

 

  

 

"We are of one spirit under our Holy Father"

  

 

 

  

 

Not true.  If someone worships budda, satan, adi da, the moon and sun, mohammed,

  

 

etc, they are not of the same spirit as a Christian who worships Jesus Christ and His

  

 

Father.

  

 

 

  

 

John 14:6

  

 

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

  

 

 

  

 

"You have many many religions of the world who believe in a higher power and afterlife" God is a all loving and caring father.

  

 

 

  

 

                It's not enough to just believe in a higher power or afterlife.  And God is 

                also a jealous God of wrath. 

 

  

 

Revelation 3:16, 19

  

 

Thus saith the Lord:

  

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue (vomit) thee out of my mouth.

  

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

  

 

  

"During the time of Christ birth how many of you know that the term virgin simply meant “never married” and that there were many documented “virginal” birth of that era."

  

                That may be true during that time, but it did not apply to

  

                Mary, the birth mother of Jesus the Son of God.

  

  Luke 1:34-38

  

Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

  

 

 35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

  

 

37For with God nothing shall be impossible.

  

"The over all point is if Christians where not so one sided in life (we’re right you wrong) and set the stage of a more equal and understanding of all religions the word God would be more readily accepted to the masses as a God for ALL brothers and sisters no matter the religion or beliefs."

  

  

 

                       Christians Do understand that humans are all given free will (equality)  

                       to choose their God and their spiritual path in life.  Ours would not be  

                       the only religious view to say (we’re right you’re wrong), yet Christians 

                       are targeted and made the “bad guys” in every scenario of this type.   

                       That’s okay, Jesus told us in the bible that would happen, because it 

                       happened to Him.    

                       We can listen to and try to understand another’s beliefs all we want to, 

                        but to adopt, accept, or condone another’s religious practice that is 

                        contrary to our own would be blasphemy against the one we call our 

                        Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  He expects us to spread his word, but not 

                        to condemn.  Christians who condemn (telling you you're going to hell 

                        if  you don't change), are commiting sin. 

  

I hate to break it to you, but Christians aren't in the least bit persecuted in the USA.

Think about it:

- Has there ever been an Athiest president, or for that matter a President other than Christian?
- Do Christians make up anything other than the majority in this country?
- Do we swear on the Koran at trials? The Bhagavad Gita?
- Do churches pay taxes?
- If a convicted murderer were to "change his ways" and become a Scientologist, Muslim or Buddhist, would a parole board give him a second thought?

I could go on...

But face it, Christians are not persecuted in this country.  The jury is even out that Christians were persecuted in Rome!

Want to see real persecution? Just mention "Falun Gong" in Bejing.  That is what real persecution looks like.
 
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May 3, 2006, 2:49 pm PDT

Thanks to you!

Quote From: elffie

how many of you know that the term virgin simply meant “never married” and that there were many documented “virginal” birth of that era.  

  

I do know that.  I read it when I was on my way to spiritual enlightenmet.  They also said it on the History Channel. 

  

Glad to have you aboard. 

Elffie 

I could not locate my book of reference on that subject.  Seems to still be in a box yet unpacked from my move to new home.    

   

funny thing is I did a little research via internet just now and located more information that the idea of the new traditional 'virgin' (never having sex) birth might have come from paganism.  As I was unable to to verify this is actuality other then a few babbles on a webpage here and there I can only give it credit for the ... mmm interesting thought factor.... and little more credence.  

 
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May 3, 2006, 3:29 pm PDT

agreed

Quote From: progdad

I hate to break it to you, but Christians aren't in the least bit persecuted in the USA.

Think about it:

- Has there ever been an Athiest president, or for that matter a President other than Christian?
- Do Christians make up anything other than the majority in this country?
- Do we swear on the Koran at trials? The Bhagavad Gita?
- Do churches pay taxes?
- If a convicted murderer were to "change his ways" and become a Scientologist, Muslim or Buddhist, would a parole board give him a second thought?

I could go on...

But face it, Christians are not persecuted in this country.  The jury is even out that Christians were persecuted in Rome!

Want to see real persecution? Just mention "Falun Gong" in Bejing.  That is what real persecution looks like.

It is an interresting facet to this generation of religions and followers.  We truly have bred a generation of "poor pity me" humans.   Everyone seems to be persecuted for one reason or another by the "they" party who end up fitting the bill at the time.  " THEY hate me" or "I was discrimnated against by THEM"  Yu can substitute about any name or group into the "they/them" sections and come up with the favorite line of todays society.  

Personally I would like to see a Buddhist president.  Muslim?  that would put a new spin on this war going on.  Sorry my mind just churing around thinking about the what if's or life.   

Scientology... there is a subject of interest and contriversy.  I have yet to figure those folks out over all.  don't know enough about them yet Wacko Tom is not that great of a front man lately for the religion.  In basics I do see thier belief and thoughts being very good... but dig in deep is smacks of cult.  For me jury is still out on them.  But more power to them as long as we don't end up with another Jonesboro. ( shudder).   

 I have been hearing and catching a few things about the Christians in Rome.  Man (as in human) have modified so much of history over the years.  I enjoy the information out there wish I could absorb more infromation and new knowledge.  Might need to return to College for a course or two.  

   

 
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May 3, 2006, 5:58 pm PDT

Yes!

Quote From: kerowyn

I could not locate my book of reference on that subject.  Seems to still be in a box yet unpacked from my move to new home.    

   

funny thing is I did a little research via internet just now and located more information that the idea of the new traditional 'virgin' (never having sex) birth might have come from paganism.  As I was unable to to verify this is actuality other then a few babbles on a webpage here and there I can only give it credit for the ... mmm interesting thought factor.... and little more credence.  

Don't get me started on how many things are actually Pagan. LOL  I've written about this before.  In one of my many Pagan books is where I saw this definition.   

  

Take care. 

Elffie 

 
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May 3, 2006, 6:11 pm PDT

Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

Quote From: progdad

Yessir that's my baby ;)  She's a new addition to the ProgDad household - just shy of 3 months old.  I'm tempted to post a new picture since she's getting cuter every day!

As for higher power - I view it along the lines of "prime mover."  Some power which "moved" the big bang that brought everything into existence.  I don't think we, as humans, have any capacity to understand it other than acknowlege that it exists. 

 I would identify myself as a Christian in the sense that I "try to be like Christ."  He defined the personage of passive resistor, social crusader and pacifist that became the archetype for many others after him like Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., Henry David Thereau (sp?) and Mother Teresa.  He also inspired (note I said inspired) Socialism, Democracy and Egalitarianism through his "first shall be last and last shall be first" doctrine.

However, being that he never claimed to be God - I do not think Christ was God.  And when he said "son of God" he was talking about all mankind being a son of God.  The Gnostic gospels delve deeper into this, but he's pretty clear about this in the Beatitudes as well.

 

"However, being that he never claimed to be God - I do not think Christ was God.  And when he said "son of God" he was talking about all mankind being a son of God." 

  

John 10:30 - Jesus said He was part of God. He said, "I and my Father are one." 

  

Exodus 3:14 -God identifies Himself to Moses by calling himself "I AM." Twice Jesus refers to Himself as the "I AM." Those around him knew exactly what he was saying and they were greatly offended.  

  

"Jesus said unto them, Verily verily, I say you, before Abraham was, I am. Then they took up stones to cast at him …" (John 8:58, 59a) "Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them I am he. As soon as he said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground." (John 18:4b, 5, 6) 

  

Revelation 1:8 -18 -Jesus said, he is the Almighty Lord. The following is a vision John had of Jesus. Verses 2, 13, 17,18 identify Jesus as the: 

(v 2) "… testimony of Jesus Christ …"(v 8) "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."(v 11) "Saying I am alpha and Omega, the first and the last…"(v 13) "And in the midst of the seven lamp stands, one like the Son of man …"(v 17b. 18a) "Fear not; I am the first and the last; I am he that liveth and was dead…" 

  

Isaiah 44:6 -In Rev 1:11, Jesus says He is the first and the last. Isa. 44:6 shows that the one who is "first and the last is actually God. "Thus saith the Lord, the King of Israel, and his redeemer, the Lord of host: I am the first, and I am the last, and beside me there is not God." 

  

Hebrews 1:8 -God the Father said Jesus was God.  

"Unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom." 

  

Isaiah 9:6 -Jesus (the Messiah) is called the Mighty God.  

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace." 

  

Matthew 1:23 -Jesus is called Immanuel, which means "God with us."  

"Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel, which, being interpreted, is God with us." 

  

"… stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me and every tongue shall confess to God." (Romans 14:10b, 11)  

"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow … and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." (Philippians 2:10a,11a)  

  

John 5:23 -We have to honor Jesus that same way as God the Father.  

"That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father who hath sent him." 

  

  

  

  

 

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May 3, 2006, 8:08 pm PDT

Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

Quote From: progdad

Yessir that's my baby ;)  She's a new addition to the ProgDad household - just shy of 3 months old.  I'm tempted to post a new picture since she's getting cuter every day!

As for higher power - I view it along the lines of "prime mover."  Some power which "moved" the big bang that brought everything into existence.  I don't think we, as humans, have any capacity to understand it other than acknowlege that it exists. 

 I would identify myself as a Christian in the sense that I "try to be like Christ."  He defined the personage of passive resistor, social crusader and pacifist that became the archetype for many others after him like Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., Henry David Thereau (sp?) and Mother Teresa.  He also inspired (note I said inspired) Socialism, Democracy and Egalitarianism through his "first shall be last and last shall be first" doctrine.

However, being that he never claimed to be God - I do not think Christ was God.  And when he said "son of God" he was talking about all mankind being a son of God.  The Gnostic gospels delve deeper into this, but he's pretty clear about this in the Beatitudes as well.
She is a cutie! I bet she has you wrapped around her little finger ;) Is she your only child thus far?
 
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May 3, 2006, 8:33 pm PDT

Debating Among Different Religious Beliefs

Quote From: kerowyn

It is an interresting facet to this generation of religions and followers.  We truly have bred a generation of "poor pity me" humans.   Everyone seems to be persecuted for one reason or another by the "they" party who end up fitting the bill at the time.  " THEY hate me" or "I was discrimnated against by THEM"  Yu can substitute about any name or group into the "they/them" sections and come up with the favorite line of todays society.  

Personally I would like to see a Buddhist president.  Muslim?  that would put a new spin on this war going on.  Sorry my mind just churing around thinking about the what if's or life.   

Scientology... there is a subject of interest and contriversy.  I have yet to figure those folks out over all.  don't know enough about them yet Wacko Tom is not that great of a front man lately for the religion.  In basics I do see thier belief and thoughts being very good... but dig in deep is smacks of cult.  For me jury is still out on them.  But more power to them as long as we don't end up with another Jonesboro. ( shudder).   

 I have been hearing and catching a few things about the Christians in Rome.  Man (as in human) have modified so much of history over the years.  I enjoy the information out there wish I could absorb more infromation and new knowledge.  Might need to return to College for a course or two.  

   

  

Christians do not pity themselves.  The bible tells them what to expect (ie: persecution), because it happened to Jesus Christ. 

  

http://www.biblicaltheism.com/willchrist.htm 

  

http://www.worship.com/help/index.shtml 

  

http://www.onlyvisiting.com/gallery/lyrics/songs/america/america.html 

 
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May 3, 2006, 9:10 pm PDT

Reincarnation?

  

 I recently had a Jehovah Witness come to my house ( I know, it was very interesting!). I invited them into my home.   Needless to say that they didn't want to stay, instead they said they would come back.  They gave me some pamplets to read over.........so I did.  My question to you, and I will ask them when they come back (if they do) is what does this verse below mean?  Does it mean you do beleive in reincarnation?  It sounds to me like it has a hint of Karma in it.  Those who do good in this life will be rewarded in their next and those who do evil will be punished.  I'm curious to know what you all think of it. 

  

Thanks. 

Elffie 

  

  

  

  

28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. 

  

  


 

 
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May 4, 2006, 12:58 pm PDT

Yeah, I still have it

The pamphlet was talking about an old man who was on his death bed.  When he finally died the church memebers were comforting his wife and they put this verse in.  When the Witnesses came to the door they asked my husband if he had lost a loved one and if he would like to see them again.   

  

So I read the pamphlete and this is the verse that they used.  John 5:28,29. 

  

I googled it (because I remember there being talk of the ever so great biblegateway.com =) ) to see if this was an actuall verse and it is. 

  

I was wondering what everyone on this board thought this verse meant.  Even if you don't believe in reincarnation, does this sound like it to you? 

  

Elffie 

 

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