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Topic : 05/02 Missing

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Created on : Thursday, April 27, 2006, 07:08:59 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Dr. Phil shines a light on missing children. Some are taken by strangers, but more frequently a parent is the one to snatch them -- too often with terrifying results. The search for two missing girls takes a Dr. Phil investigator inside a seldom-seen religious community where worshippers live what some call "a simpler way of life." Follow this story of child abduction by a father -- now a fugitive of the law -- who is living on the run with his two daughters, while their mother desperately tries to find them. Then, imagine not seeing your children for 10 years. Your 3-year-old is now 13, your 6-year-old now drives, and your 8-year-old is graduating high school – and you’re missing it all. John Clark is living this nightmare. Find out what happened and why his ex-wife is now wanted by the FBI. Join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.

More May 2006 Show Boards.
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purplepain

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May 3, 2006, 12:18 pm PDT

05/02 Missing

Quote From: Candie

I have one question?  If he hasn't done anything wrong ask yourself this:   Why is he in hiding with his daughters?   God wants us to love everybody, even our ex spouse.  He doesn't sound very Christian like to me.
That is the problem with christianity.  It's so completely open to interpretation. The bible is unclear on just about everything and every single version of christianity has scripture to back it up.

I'm sure he has scripture to back up what he is doing and why he is doing it and I'm sure he believes that god is behind him fully.

As I've said twice before. This is the problem with religion. One can justify breaking the law because they believe in a higher power. Empathy, law, reason and logic can all be thrown out the window on a whim.
 
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lilvtlady
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May 3, 2006, 1:00 pm PDT

05/02 Missing

Quote From: jaxxxxxx

In my experience, which is mostly with men who have custody, judges rely on BEHAVIOR alone.

What a person does is, to most judges, the only thing which matters. Depression is, in most judges eyes, not relevant. The actions --if present-- caused by depression are.

Here's an example from about 20 years ago, the thinking still holds:

Couple had two children, depressed mother had custody.

Children were found wandering the streets at 10 pm, barely dressed, the youngest in a very dirty diaper.
Children's aid came in a tried to improve the mother's parenting skills: Mother refused to change.
Children's aid offered her counselling, she refused.
My step daughter was the mother's primary baby sitter: She told my wife everything she saw and heard, which was MUCH more than children's aid knew.
My wife (at the time married to another man) called children's aid and told them some of the other stuff which applied. My wife also told them about the father who had been complaining about the neglect from the beginning: He worked for my wife's at the time husband.
Children's aid agreed to meet with the father and discuss his concerns.
Children's aid decided there were sufficient grounds for a change in custody.
Father, children's aid and my wife went to court and asked for a change in custody.
The judge was ONLY interested in the mother's behavior, her refusal to get help, etc..
Custody was changed.
Father did a great job of raising the kids: One of which now works for my step daughter.

That's how it goes in these things. Judges care about who does what, "does" being the operative word here.
I think that the main reason the father managed to get custody of the kids was the fact that the she was accusing him of sexual abuse and there was nothing supporting that, there was a woman in NY that lost custody of her daughter a couple of years ago for the same thing, it's parental alienation and causes automatic custody to go to the other parent.  The mother was on Dr. Phil last year. 
 
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darwaymac

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May 3, 2006, 1:12 pm PDT

05/02 Missing

Quote From: cwalczak

You know nothing about this situation.   They were married in mainstream religious ceremony, not Amish, Mennonite, etc..    The girls were not exposed to this way of life until they were divorced.    He lost custody of those girls when he became involve with this group and chose stop sending them to school.  He made the decision to change how they would be raised, without hie ex-wife's consent.  He ran off with those girls, because he lost custody of them, due his actions.  
You are wrong.  He never lost custody.  Watch the show again. 
 
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wintrywood
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May 3, 2006, 1:22 pm PDT

Family Courts Promote Combat Between Parents

Divorce and custody are highly emotional situations and in this day of no fault divorce, whereby, either parent can declare the marriage over and file for divorce. Many parents are doing so without first exploring other solutions that could possibly save the marriage but if not, make the parents understand the harm they will do to their children if they don't learn to cooperate with each other after seperation or divorce.  Children need both parents and as long as both parents are fit, they should be entitled to parent the children without interference from the courts.  Lawyers and the family court system is not designed to deal with the high conflict and emotional baggage of the parents.  In fact the courts and everyone connected to it profit from contested divorce cases.  What we need is a family court system that truely protects the children's best interest, a system that identifies problems and arranges programs to help divorcing families.   
 
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chikara1
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May 3, 2006, 2:45 pm PDT

I agree

Quote From: wintrywood

Divorce and custody are highly emotional situations and in this day of no fault divorce, whereby, either parent can declare the marriage over and file for divorce. Many parents are doing so without first exploring other solutions that could possibly save the marriage but if not, make the parents understand the harm they will do to their children if they don't learn to cooperate with each other after seperation or divorce.  Children need both parents and as long as both parents are fit, they should be entitled to parent the children without interference from the courts.  Lawyers and the family court system is not designed to deal with the high conflict and emotional baggage of the parents.  In fact the courts and everyone connected to it profit from contested divorce cases.  What we need is a family court system that truely protects the children's best interest, a system that identifies problems and arranges programs to help divorcing families.   

You are so on-point in your observations. As a family lawyer, I have seen individual judges try to protect children. But I also will never forget the case of a husband and wife who were pursuing reconciliation through counseling. They wanted their case continued without any action for six months. The judge said that the court is not here to reconcile marriages, it is here for divorce.  

  

I understand that judges have full dockets and that the courts are crowded. But that statement, while not an indictment of that judge, is indicative of a systemic problem. You are absolutely correct in your statement that lawyers and the family court system are not designed to deal with the high conflict and emotional baggage of the parents. 

  

Divorce happens way too quickly. The only time that it can't happen quick enough is when there is abuse. But generally speaking, once the case is filed and lawyers are involved, watch out - it's that snowball going downhill. 
 
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cangal32
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May 3, 2006, 3:05 pm PDT

05/02 Missing

Quote From: condar

It is very very very not easy to leave an hutterite colony....... You are an outcast by most, if not all of your relatives that still live in the colony. In most cases, you leave with your personel belongings only. A lot of times, when you leave, as you pack your belongings, a cop or Police is called to the site. It makes you feel like a criminal. If you want to visit your relatives. it is one of the only places in the USA where you have ask to visit, and on some colonies, if you are an exhutterite, you have to be gone before 4 PM. Most Colonies, no over weekend stays, I will ask you this, Would you describe this as Loving??????? I could go on and on and on and on. But I am sure you get the point.
No, it's not easy to leave the colony, my step-mother-in-law left the colony with a small group (sisters and friends) so she wasn't alone.  We have many hutterite colonies in the area where we live (Southern Manitoba), we sometimes purchase products from them and we can just go right in, no gates or anyone stopping you. We did actually stay in the colony for a weekend, slept in my step-mom-in-laws mother's house. I didn't feel like we weren't welcome there at all, in fact, they wanted us to come again soon. These are just my experiences, but I am an outsider.  I wouldn't want to BE a Hutterite, lol, and not just because I'd have to give up my make-up and jeans. I see the young girls and teenagers there and I feel sad for them that they will be expected only to cook huge meals in the community kitchen, sew clothing, and have babies in their lifetime. Life can be so much more than that, as my step-mom-in-law knows...
 
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wintrywood
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May 3, 2006, 3:08 pm PDT

05/02 Missing

Quote From: jaxxxxxx

In no particular order:

Parental abduction isn't all that common, it isn't all that rare either, sad to say.

More mothers than fathers abduct their children:  This is primarily because there are organizations which will help a mother abduct her children. Fathers do not, generally speaking, have that help.

Given the state of gender politics in the first world, it should be obvious to all that fathers are FAR FAR more blamed for abducting their children. The sexism involved is quite extreme and a threat to children. This due to the views taken against men who are abused by the woman in their life. The violence of the views against abused men are, in this manner, a direct cause of some parental abductions. That is sick and sad, but reality in some of these cases (whether the abduction is maternal or paternal).

No person has the right to abduct their chidlren. Doing so is a great wrong and a great evil to the chidlren and the other parent. We need to take public action to stop parental abduction.

Doing so MUST include action to end contempt for men/fathers as such contempt is one of the causes of parental abduction by both fathers and mothers. Actions to end contempt for males must be one part of the movement to end parental abduction.

Another part must be public education. Education to get the idea through to the public that there are easy and fair ways of resolving disputes AND that all have a duty to get involved in settling disputes.

We must further teach all that no parent owns their child! A child is a person and a free individual in their own right. Children have the right to both parents.
From what I have seen on those little flyers that say "have you seen me?" it appears that most times I see mothers abducting their kids.  I called the center for missing and exploited children and was dismayed that they will not help a non custodial parent, with a current visitation order to find their children unless they return to the court and get further court orders. This seems very unfair to me and is treating the non custodial parent like a second class parent.   Non custodial parent's children go missing all the time but because they are with a custodial parent its considered ok, I guess.  I see no reason why a non custodial parent with a current visitation order should not receive the same consideration as a custodial parent when children go missing through a custodial parent moving and leaving no forwarding address.  That is also parental abduction.  Custodial parents exploit their children in the worst possible way by denying them a relationship with the other parent.  Missing and exploited children services should help all parents find their kids, custodial or non custodial should not matter!  We are parents and love our kids and should know where they are.
 
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wintrywood
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May 3, 2006, 3:23 pm PDT

05/02 Missing

Quote From: chikara1

You are so on-point in your observations. As a family lawyer, I have seen individual judges try to protect children. But I also will never forget the case of a husband and wife who were pursuing reconciliation through counseling. They wanted their case continued without any action for six months. The judge said that the court is not here to reconcile marriages, it is here for divorce.  

  

I understand that judges have full dockets and that the courts are crowded. But that statement, while not an indictment of that judge, is indicative of a systemic problem. You are absolutely correct in your statement that lawyers and the family court system are not designed to deal with the high conflict and emotional baggage of the parents. 

  

Divorce happens way too quickly. The only time that it can't happen quick enough is when there is abuse. But generally speaking, once the case is filed and lawyers are involved, watch out - it's that snowball going downhill. 

Thanks.  What I know is from personal experience.  I could tell you many horror stories.  The family courts enabled my ex to destroy our family and inflict emotional harm on myself and our children.  What I and other families worldwide are experiencing is incredibly unjust.  Our laws should protect all parties involved, rights.  Instead they profit from the misery and try to absolve themselves of any responsibility for the outcome.  Its easier to just blame the parents.  Its the innocent children that pay for it emotionally.  REFORM FAMILY LAW TO PROPERLY SERVE THE DIVORCING FAMILIES OF AMERICA!   
 
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jaider
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May 3, 2006, 6:03 pm PDT

Church of the Brethren not the weird church

Quote From: lreinhold

 I am very concerned that the camera man may have just picked a church with the word brethren in it's name when showing the brick church labeled "Church of the Brethren" while the mother was talking about  it being strange church and never going back.

My husband is Chruch of the Brethren which is a German Anabaptist offshoot more closely associated with the Mennonites and the Quakers.  There have been several splits along the way.  The Church of the Brethren is not all like what is implied.  Last year the Christmas service on CBS was done by The Church of the Brethren - pretty diverse and mainstream.  The Church of the Brethren is a small denomination and doesn't need bad press.  I'd hate for people to think that they are a cult.  The best tagline to sum up their beliefs is "Continuing the work of Jesus, Simply, Peaecfully, Together".

God sure works in mysterious ways, doesn't he?  He can even guide the hand of a camera man. 

Just kidding.  Really, I'm just kidding! 
 
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ladygabby
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May 3, 2006, 8:39 pm PDT

Kidnapping

Quote From: wintrywood

From what I have seen on those little flyers that say "have you seen me?" it appears that most times I see mothers abducting their kids.  I called the center for missing and exploited children and was dismayed that they will not help a non custodial parent, with a current visitation order to find their children unless they return to the court and get further court orders. This seems very unfair to me and is treating the non custodial parent like a second class parent.   Non custodial parent's children go missing all the time but because they are with a custodial parent its considered ok, I guess.  I see no reason why a non custodial parent with a current visitation order should not receive the same consideration as a custodial parent when children go missing through a custodial parent moving and leaving no forwarding address.  That is also parental abduction.  Custodial parents exploit their children in the worst possible way by denying them a relationship with the other parent.  Missing and exploited children services should help all parents find their kids, custodial or non custodial should not matter!  We are parents and love our kids and should know where they are.
Actually more children are kidnapped by a parent or relative than a stranger these days.
 
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