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Topic : 08/30 Possessive People

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Created on : Thursday, April 27, 2006, 07:11:52 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 05/03/06) Claudia describes her mother, Bernice, as an "emotional, psychological vampire, sucking the life blood" out of her. She feels smothered by her mother's controlling, possessive behavior toward her and her two children, and finds herself snapping at her husband and taking it out on her kids. When Claudia and her husband, Thomas, built their new home, Bernice built a house right next door, so she could drop in at any time -- an opportunity she has taken full advantage of. Claudia says Bernice makes her feel like a terrible mother because she won't stop questioning her decisions and undermining her. If the situation doesn't change, Claudia and Thomas say they will move their family to Ireland. Bernice says her grandchildren are her life and if she loses them, she will die. What is behind Bernice's possessiveness? Is this just grandmotherly love, or is she crossing the line? Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

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May 5, 2006, 2:17 pm PDT

possesive grandmother

  

Dear Dr. Phil, 

  

Thank you for having this topic on my day off from work!  I am 49 and have two daughters who are married, and one son who is single.  I have no grandchildren yet, but when asked, I tell people it 

is  a decision based on when they are ready to be parents, not when I am ready to be a Grandmother.   I am enjoying this lull between children and grandchildren, and look at it as "me"/"us" time for my husband and myself.  (as much as any farmer gets me time) 

but I digress.... 

I have voiced thoughts about quitting my job if and when the grandchildren come along and babysitting for them if their parents want that.  I love children and we have the farm  for them  

to enjoy just as their parents did.  

  

I stayed home with my children for 11 years before going back to work, and understand most 

mothers don't have this luxury, and would like to give my grandchildren the next best thing if  

their mom's and dad's choose to be working parents. 

After seeing your show, I am afraid that this is a bad thing.  I think I am pretty good at boundaries 

and respecting privacy etc., but I have to wonder is this  ok as long as we all respect each others' needs for privacy, independence, boundaries and roles or am I asking for trouble? 

  

Not there yet, but I sure don't want to be either. 

  

Kathleen Giebel 

  

  

  

 
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May 5, 2006, 3:23 pm PDT

Final Letter

Quote From: marlittle

Did you feel guilty about the end of your relationship with her?  I haven't spoke with my Mother since Nov of 2004. She used to tell me that is was my job to call her every morning to make sure she made it through the night.  At the time, she was about 70, but in very good health, living with my stepfather and in a home right down the hill from ours.  It made me so resentful of her.  That is only  the tip of the iceberg with my problems with her.  I tried over many years to get her involved in activities or volunteer organizations so she felt needed.  Needless to say all my efforts failed and I just could not handle feeling responsible for her happiness.  I couldn't please her enough or do enough to make her happy. One time she asked me to help her prune her giant rose bush.  I helped her and we worked two hours on it.  A few days later, she started telling me off about how I turned her "Lady Banks Rose" into "Lady Bankrupt."  She said I turned the best thing in her yard into the worst thing and so on and so on.  I asked her why she didn't say something to me while we were working on it together and she had nothing but excuses saying she was too busy to notice.  I   

was upset and she knew it.  Instead of dealing with any of the things I said to her, she didn't speak to me for 6 weeks. (This was part of her habit and she did this to me many times.)  She lives right next door so this is very awkward considering we see her drive in and out all the time.  At the end of the 6 weeks she came to my house and started telling me again about how everything was my fault.  I tried very rationally to  tell her that we were only going to take so much of her behavior and then we would be done.  I also told her that she could not expect to treat people like doormats and have them want to come back for more.  She apparently did not hear a word I said.  Later that year, she let me have it again.  After calling me many names, she told me not to come down, visit or speak to her until I could apologize.  I had nothing to apologize for and it was time for me to stand up for my family.  Her pride has cost her many broken relationships. My heart breaks for her because her life seems to empty.  That is the part I have problems with.  I still do not miss her.   

I have a final letter I want to give her but I am afraid.  Doesn't that sound dumb! At 49, I am afraid to put a note in my Mother's mailbox.  I just know it will cause her to yell at me again and I barely made it though last year.  The letter means closure for me though and I really want to get the strength to do it.   

Maryann, don't send that final letter.  It will not be read with your tone of voice, but instead in your mother's tone - and they are probably as different as night and day.   

  

Also if your mom is anything like mine, the letter will become public.  She will share it with everyone to show how cruel and uncaring you are.    My mother read to me everything my siblings wrote to her, and then expected me to side with her.   When I tried to explain to her how innocent the letters were she would turn on me.  It's a lose-lose situation.    

  

Keeping a journal, and writing experiences down on paper, helps me to relieve the anger and frustration.  But they never see the light of day.   My personal rule is: if you don't want everyone and their uncle to see your letter, don't send it to your mother.   

  

Your pal, Lizbeth  

 
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May 5, 2006, 4:52 pm PDT

Living Far Away on Purpose

It's my M-I-L that drives us crazy.  So crazy, we haven't lived in the Western USA for 16 YEARS now. I know if we were to live too close, we would soon be divorced from her meddling.  Of course, when she does visit it's for WEEKS at a time and she does nothing but complain about how her other D-I-L treat "her" boys...or how we raise our children. She invades my fridge and throws out perfectly good food, drinks our fine wine for Hubby's VIP's from work and even bangs on our bedroom door in the early morning  hours while we are trying to sneak in SEX before anyone else wakes up.....telling Hubby that he will be late for work. The man has gotten himself off to work for 25 years without her around...yet she still feels the need to tell him...at 5:30 am!  If you ask her why she does it, she would be like Bernice and say something like, "well, he was going to be late for work, how is that a problem?"  

  

I wonder how much of it is a cultural thing, because she TRULY sees nothing wrong with her behavior. As much as I want MY children to have a grandmother around, I know she would PUSH ME ASIDE.   She has already told me how to raise them even though we are polar opposites. I haven't, nor will I ever tell her, that I didn't respect the way she handled her own husband and the scar it left on her own children. As much as she complains about her D-I-L's, we are the best thing to happen to her broken sons.  (although she would never see it that way) 

 

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May 5, 2006, 6:26 pm PDT

05/03 Possessive People

Quote From: slb1956

I agree with you that it is a privilge to be a grandparent and please understand I never go to my daughters without calling although when it is reversed they know that I do not expect them to call ahead they are always welcome.My daughter would call me everyday not me calling her and I always took the time to talk and listen .If she would ask for advice I would give it and yes sometimes I gave it without being asked.If she is going to involve me in something she is doing by talking to me about it and if I feel I can steer her in a better direction then I will.If she does not want me to say anything then she should not involve me,go tell a friend,but isn't that what friends do also?(give advice)Once they are grown and they feel they know everything,they want to have total control of their lives and they don't want parents involved in their lives then don't  involve them.I would not tell my grandmother( as I said I lived with her) in my problems because I did not want to worry her.I would talk to a friend.I did not constantly ask to see and keep my grandkids, my daughter would always ask me to keep them and I'm serious when I say she would ask no less than 3 weekends a month and at least twice a week. Grandkids do melt your heart and I by choice did not refuse to keep them.So I ask is it fair for your kids to take away that privilege with the grand kids when they were the ones that gave all of the contact to begin with?Claudia did have a choice as all parents do, find a daycare or a babysitter and if the situation is so bad with the grandparent don't wait until the grandparent has such a tremendous bond with the kids and then pull the plug.Nip it in the bud as soon as you see what is happening. I agree Bernice way over stepped her bounds but so did Claudia.If it had been me I would have taken the key,not got my mother so involved once I say things heading in the wrong direction,gave her a schedule in writing,suggest counseling and I am sure there are other solutions.When it comes down to it Claudia helped to create the problem.
Talking with your mother and talking with a friend are different. Whether it's fair or not, I don't know....but when you are raised by someone you can't ever look at them as just a friend and advice from your mother feels more like bossing and lecturing then friendly advice. Again, it might not be right, but most grown people feel that way.

I am so sorry that your relationship with your daughter and grandkids is in such a bad state. I was in no way trying to justify your daughters behavior. I was just trying to make it clear that grandparents should not have automatic rights over kids.
 
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May 6, 2006, 5:49 am PDT

advice????

    My sons fathers mother has court ordered visitation with my son every other weekend.. my son is 4 and has come to me and said the following things "grammy hits me" "grammy wants to be my mumma" he has told me "my eyes dont sleep at grammys" "I like to be at home with you mumma". Over the past few years she has had many crazy concerns about my child , his health and development. Although i have not noticed any of the symptoms she has I have almost always taken him to make sure he was okey.He is a happy, healthy age appropriate 4 year old boy!  When my son was 2 she took him to the hospital and got him robitussin with codine he was to take an adult dose every 4 hours she athorized the treatment and when she brought my son home he was barely moving and unreasponsive. I was scared.I took him to the hopital and the nurse told me not to give it to him that was way too much for him.  I have gotten the hopital record and it sounds like she keeps stressing that "He cant sleep".. I did not give my child the medication and he slept fine.  After this inncedent however i did not stop the visits i just told her over and over again as many ways as i knew how to BRING HIM HOME if he was sick. It wasnt till he came to me saying these things that i got very concerned and stoped her court ordered visits. I only want to do what is  in the best interest of my child. Both my childs Father and his mother are controling and minipulative. They both have very abusive qualities. I dont think it is in my childs best intrest to have any contact with these people at all. Since I have stopped the visits my childs behavior has changed for the better he seems even happier. I welcome any advice.
 
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May 6, 2006, 6:59 pm PDT

possessive people

This show felt very familiar to me. I struggle with the same problem. When Dr. Phil read the daughter's message saying how she felt out of control, etc. I knew that I could have written that same letter. While I appreciate all that Dr. Phil advised and see the logic and need to do just as he suggested, I can't help but wonder about the fall out for the daughter of imposing those boundaries. I guess I just see that she will have somewhat solved the problem of her mother imposing and controlling her every day life, but I wonder about the emotional turmoil the daugher will experience and the effects of the likely passive aggressive, negative, guilt-inducing behavior of the mother as a response to having her power taken from her. My problem is I just see the daughter trading one problem for another and as I am familiar with the current problem I am totally conflicted about how to handle the possible new problems to follow.
 
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May 6, 2006, 9:46 pm PDT

Babysitter?

I have told my mother that I plan on hiring a babysitter, but then she puts a guilt trip on me and says" I'm the best babysitter you got, nobody would watch Gina and take care of her as good as I do." 
My husband's step-mother has watched Gina in the past and all Gina does is watch TV over there.  There is no interaction, no helping out with her homework...basically nothing.  My husband's niece has watched her also, she's seventeen, and all she does is chat online, use our phone to talk to her boyfriends, turn up our heat  to 90 degreesin our house, and have Gina watch TV also.  His niece does have a baby boy in which the father's mother has custody and his niece only visits her son on the weekends.  Kind of a screwed up situation.
I know my mother is the best babysitter , it just comes down to the decisions that my husband and I make are always ridiculed by my mother. 
The good thing coming soon...I have been off of work now for two weeks, going to be three soon, due to surgery and I start my new shift at work from 7 am- 3:30pm.  This means that I will be spending more time with Gina and my mother doesn't have to babysit anymore.  Gina is in school right now, but I plan on putting her in daycamp during the summer. 
I know the problem will not end there because my mother will still call and also visit, which means she'll still be telling me what to do. 
There is no end....HELP

 
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May 6, 2006, 10:49 pm PDT

05/03 Possessive People

Quote From: purplepain

Talking with your mother and talking with a friend are different. Whether it's fair or not, I don't know....but when you are raised by someone you can't ever look at them as just a friend and advice from your mother feels more like bossing and lecturing then friendly advice. Again, it might not be right, but most grown people feel that way.

I am so sorry that your relationship with your daughter and grandkids is in such a bad state. I was in no way trying to justify your daughters behavior. I was just trying to make it clear that grandparents should not have automatic rights over kids.
I agree that Grandparents should not have automatic rights but I do believe that if the parents are the ones that depend on the grandparents to be totally involved in the grand kids lives and if for no good reason the parents pull the kids away and especially after the kids are older and the strong bond has been established,then the grandparents should have as much contact as they had been given before by the parents.It can devastate  the grandkids from what I have seen.My grandson has been told by his Mom about the situation and heard his mom talking bad about me and he has gotten upset at his mom because he does not understand why she is keeping them from me.I have never discussed his mom and the situation to the kids because in my opinion they should not have to hear all of the details.My grandson thinks they are to blame for what is going on.I feel they are to young to hear all of the details (he is 10).He has slipped and called me when he was at his other grandmothers his mom will not even let them call.I reassure him it is not their fault and as much as I would like to tell them my side of this mess I will not.I try never to hurt them and I will not and I have never degraded their Mom to them ever.I appreciate your replies, in a way it is helping me.It is always good to have an outside opinion about matters. Unless you walk a mile in some ones shoes you can never really know all of the details involved. It really does tear a grandparents heart out to not see the kids as much as what you get use to.If my daughter had problems with something I was doing wrong she could have told me but she chose to not do that.She pulled the kids when I called her to let her know my son-in-law had went way over the minutes on his cell phone that was in my name and the deal had been that would pay the bill but that was not what happened.I had payed the bill for 18 months while they reaped the benefit and the day I called I was not calling for money I was asking which phone plan would work better for him and she blew up.She still to this day has not came up with where I crossed any lines as regarding as the kids.She uses the kids as a pawn.She gets mad at you and the result is you don't get the kids.I am still hoping I can get the court to see the bond that I have with the kids and that I am in no way interfering with her parenting nor is it harmful for the kids to come and visit as it was before.If not I want die but I sure will miss them and I know that they will miss me.The case is in WV and the law has little room to maneuver.
 
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May 6, 2006, 10:56 pm PDT

Babysitting grandkids

Quote From: kgiebel1

  

Dear Dr. Phil, 

  

Thank you for having this topic on my day off from work!  I am 49 and have two daughters who are married, and one son who is single.  I have no grandchildren yet, but when asked, I tell people it 

is  a decision based on when they are ready to be parents, not when I am ready to be a Grandmother.   I am enjoying this lull between children and grandchildren, and look at it as "me"/"us" time for my husband and myself.  (as much as any farmer gets me time) 

but I digress.... 

I have voiced thoughts about quitting my job if and when the grandchildren come along and babysitting for them if their parents want that.  I love children and we have the farm  for them  

to enjoy just as their parents did.  

  

I stayed home with my children for 11 years before going back to work, and understand most 

mothers don't have this luxury, and would like to give my grandchildren the next best thing if  

their mom's and dad's choose to be working parents. 

After seeing your show, I am afraid that this is a bad thing.  I think I am pretty good at boundaries 

and respecting privacy etc., but I have to wonder is this  ok as long as we all respect each others' needs for privacy, independence, boundaries and roles or am I asking for trouble? 

  

Not there yet, but I sure don't want to be either. 

  

Kathleen Giebel 

  

  

  

I think you are going to be a great grandparent.  You said..."I want to quit work and babysit IF my children want that." and the comment on your wanting them to have kids when they are ready, not when you're ready to be a grandma.  I think you know the boundaries and how wonderful to be able to do that for your grandchildren when they are young.  My mom worked when my son was young but I worked 2 jobs and I never felt bad for those extra few hours because he got great time with my parents.  Even today (he's 16 now!) he has a very close and loving relationship with my parents.  I looked at it as a gift from my parents.  I also for several years lived a block from them...I never felt invaded nor did I hang at thier house daily.  I think if you are anything like the note you wrote you'll do fine.  Most of it is simply reading the responses from others.  Today's case was a woman who meant well I think but was obtuse to the obvious.  I think most parents do a pretty good job letting their kids go and being involved in the right way!  Good luck on those babies!  One more thing...I think its great to look at the time as a time for you and hubby...take every time in life and enjoy it...when the grandkids come it will be great but if you're like my parents...those kids will come first most of the time!!! 

  

AJ 

 
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May 7, 2006, 7:38 am PDT

Emotional vampire..I had one too!

Dear Dr Phil (and staff),  

I found your show on the possessive, controlling mother on 5/3/06 to be much like my life EXCEPT that I had a backbone and would never have permitted what this family is permitting from this woman. I used the same term, "emotional vampire", to describe my mother and still do when talking about my past with her.  

My mother, until her death, was possessive, controlling and a perfectionist who was impossible to please. She was verbally abusive and had us all walking on eggshells around her when I was a kid. My dad was a lovely, soft-spoken Irishman who would dive into the bottle on weekends to escape. I adored him, but resented that part.   

The difference was that later, when I was a young adult and they had stopped drinking (by my intervention), my dad and I could talk about things honestly and so healing happened and there was nothing left unsaid between us and no regrets and we had a wonderful adult relationship until his death. I still grieve for him on occasion and after 20 years I still miss him, but I have yet to shed a single tear over my mother's death nearly 16 years ago.  

My mother could not handle any criticism so it was impossible to explain to her what she was doing that was driving me away from her without an emotional tantrum in which she would attempt to make everything my fault. After a childhood of this, my smouldering anger and resentment hit the fan when I reached legal adulthood, which was age 21 back in the day.  

When I was 22, I left home for good after I graduated from college. My mother threw an adult temper tantrum and I heard it all, just as the daughter on this show described. However, unlike her, my pent-up rage at being controlled and manipulated all of my life finally came to a head. I was now a legal adult with a college degree and a teaching job waiting for me in a few weeks, and I was moving out, period. Of course my mother panicked and went through all of her 'tricks' to try to control me yet again.  

First came the 'bully' behavior.."If you leave this house, you'll never come back again". So, I said.."Fine. This is an empty threat and we both know it, but give me a half-hour to throw my stuff in my car and I'll be gone. No problem". She was shocked, of course. I had called her bluff and her bullying had no effect except to strenghten my resolve to get away from her.  

Next came the attempt to pile on the guilt. "You'll stay home and pay board..you owe us." I said.."I owe you nothing. It was your job to take care of me until I reached adulthood. No child is responsible for literally paying his or her parents back for her own childhood. It was your JOB to take care of me, feed me, clothe me, as it will be my job someday to do that for my children. I owe you nothing financially. I paid my own way through college with student loans that I'll be paying back for the next ten years, so sorry, but you're not going to guilt me with that nonsense."  

Ok..so, the guilt trip continued. While she stopped short of telling me she'd die if I left..she did pull that later in my life under different circumstances..she tried everything she could think of to make me feel guilty for wanting to get away from her, right up to "the dog will be miserable if you leave!" I mean..give me a break. If I hadn't been so angry, it would have been comical.  

Then came her big finish..the tears. Again, an attempt to induce guilt. It didn't work. I asked her if she'd like us to clear the floor so she could lie down and kick her feet to make her tantrum complete. I left two days later and never moved home again, although I did begin to visit but it took over a year before I came home again for visits. I needed to make a statement first.  

I needed to make a definite statement because she was obsessed with me and my life and had no life of her own. She would sit at home (I later found out) and make checks on the calender for every day I failed to call home, and was beside herself because she had no power to make me do anything I didn't want to do. How sad for her.  

I told her this..that she needed to find something else to occupy her time.. so I really identified again with the daughter on this show. Again, the difference is that I meant it. I told my mother that she was not living my life for me, and I refused to give in.   

 It took several years for my mother to accept that I was not coming back home, and I literally broke two telephones because we had such fights over the phone that I slammed the receivers down so hard, I knocked wires loose.   

The woman was beside herself because she could no longer control me and so she got nasty and tried the guilt trip every chance she got, which infuriated me.  

It took me a while to realize that I was an abused child, because while no one ever struck me, verbal abuse is just as bad. Whenever I hear Dr Phil say that, it really verifies my feelings. My mother always negated my feelings when they clashed with what she wanted me to do or think, which was pretty much all the time. The resentment is something I am still working to overcome, for my sake.  

I wasn't raised as a child with unconditional love and acceptance. Instead, we had a role reversal. I was responsible for making my mother happy, and when I failed I was verbabally attacked to my core. She thought she owned me, body and soul.  

I began to come to grips with this as a young adult, with professional help. I was never accepted for myself unconditionally by the same-sex parent, so you can imagine what that did to my sense of self-worth for a long time.  

Up until the day she died, when I was 41 years old, my mother was manipulative and if I didn't do things her way, she was mean and nasty. She would call neighbors, my friends, my in-laws..just about anyone she could think of to put me down and complain about how 'selfish' I was for not putting her needs before my own. She never understood that she drove me further away from her by this behavior.  

The day she died, when we all visited her in the nursing home, she asked me if I loved her after she turned her face away from me when it came time to kiss her goodbye. I said yes, but the truth was, "I don't know because you make it very difficult sometimes" but I knew I'd have to live with my answer for the rest of my life so I chose to be kind.  

 I didn't know that she would die that night, and I was planning on coming back alone the next day to tell her why I could not take care of her myself, something she was sulking over for the entire time she was in the home. It would have meant a lot to me to get that off my chest but I never got the chance.  

 Fortunately for us all, she was only there for 6 weeks, but it was 6 weeks in hell for us all, including the staff. My mother was impossible to please, she was mean and nasty and when they would call me to discuss this, I just said, "Welcome to my world. I can't help you."  

 I would hate for the daughter on your show to have unfinished business with her mother. She needs to speak out and get some professional help to understand that she is NOT responsible for her mother's happiness, from what I saw, because she doesn't seem to really believe it yet.  

It took years of therapy to regain my self-esteem..something I am still working on..and to begin to forgive my mother.   

Iam proud that I created for myself in adult life what I did not get as a child, so when Dr Phil says that we must sometimes give ourselves what we did not get from others, I can really identify and it makes me feel really good about myself because that's exactly what I did as soon as I got the personal power (legal age and a job) to do so.   

For this particular family who was just on your show, I cannot even imagine letting it get so far. I would move again..if not to Ireland, than an hour or more away at least..and tell the mother that she is not to follow or a restraining order will be issued to keep her away from her grandchildren and daughter until she learns boundaries.   

If the daughter can't do it, then the law should and I hope the husband stands up more. He's probably trying to get along with his wife's mother and keep the peace, but this has gone too far and must be stopped one way or the other.   

I don't believe for a minute that this daughter has the guts to stand up to this woman, or that the mother took Dr Phil's words to heart because she is so self-centered and controlling that she'll rationalize it away and believe that she is right. Her behavior isn't going to change without something drastic or without professional counseling.   

There was another daughter, I think, but she wasn't mentioned much. I imagine it's because she won't put up with this nonsense from her mother and so the mother sticks to the one she can still control.  

It's too late for me and my mother, but this daughter still has a chance. However, she must be firm and she must not buckle, and living next door to her mother is unthinkable when the mother respects no boundaries and feels like she's in charge and can walk right into their home unannounced. They must get away from her both physically and emotionally, and they need to do it now.  

Thanks for listening. I'll keep watching. I find a lot of shows really touch on what happened to me and Dr Phil and I seem to be on the same page.  

 We cannot look for our sense of self from others if it was not gently nurtured as children. We can't give away our own personal power to the opinions of others, which is something I struggle with all the time because of my past. It's taken me years, but at this stage of my life I'm finally realizing that I can't please everyone and that's ok. I'm a good person, I deserve to be happy, and my sense of self-worth must begin within my own heart.  

Thanks, Dr Phil, for reinforcing this for me and for everyone else who has had a destructive emotional history.  

Yours,  

Caitie Franklin  

 
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