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Topic : 05/10 Finding Allene and Mollie, Part 2

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Created on : Friday, May 05, 2006, 07:02:03 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
A tense family drama continues. Dr. Phil sent private investigator Harold Copus thousands of miles through three countries, including the jungles of Belize, to find 15-year-old Mollie and 13-year-old Allene who were abducted by their father one year ago. Now, join the tearful reunion between the girls and their mother, Michelle. Then, Dr. Phil sits down with Michelle and her husband, Michael. Find out why he says, “You could cut the tension with a knife.” What happens when Michael is confronted about the kidnapping? Next, hear from Hutterite religious leader Peter Hoover who was instrumental in bringing Michael and the girls back to America. But was he honest the first time he was on the show? Did he aid and abet Michael in accomplishing the abductions? Then, follow the girls as they go back home. How will they deal with returning to American teenage life? Join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.

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May 8, 2006, 7:57 am CDT

Jumping to conclusions

Quote From: macrae222

I may be opening a can of worms  here but I can not help how passionate I am about this subject.I feel there should be some kind Of religious police!  

We talk about abuse of children,what is worse than a brain washing cult!  

My grandfather always taught me there was only one God and  he or she was loving god.  

Since I have grown up I feel I don't understand how some groups can actually brain wash people but I know how it works!  

If you cant feel your own feelings and speak what you feel in your heart how is this a religion?I am surprised it is legal to allow children to be treated this way and I'm surprised it's legal.Especially those studs with more than 1 wife.Its illegal to hit a child in the classroom or say the Lords prayer ,why can young children have religion shoved down there throats at home when its not religion but  wrong moral teaching and abuse!Teaching people everyone else but their religion are bad people is abuse no matter how you put it.  

 "There should be some kind of religious police!"

Don't worry, many American police personnel are deeply religious. :)

On a serious note, I don't know if you've heard, but there are progressive nations that do have "religious police." The U.S. could learn much from their successes. Places like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and North Korea. History is rich with examples as well, such as Soviet Russia, Cambodia, and Hitler's Third Reich. The communist governments especially, have developed highly effective anti-brainwashing programs. Do you suppose you would feel at home in any of these regimes?
 
May 8, 2006, 8:13 am CDT

Dr Phil!

I can't believe you asked these children who they wanted to live with!  You should never ask a child to choose between two parents they love!  These children are entitled to a fully functioning relationship with BOTH their parents, if the parents are willing and fit.  Adults should not put children in the middle!  Both these parents and the family court system have done that and its time for change!  Family courts faced with two fit and capable parents should require that they make a plan that protects the child's best interest.  The plans should be made by the parents! They know their children's needs best!  If there is tension and issues between the parents then courts should order the family into therapy to get the help they need in order to put their issues, anger, hurt feeling aside and get on  with the important task of parenting their kids after divorce/seperation.  The present family law system enables this putting children in the middle and parents squaring off against each other in a contest to prove who is the better parent when in reality the children need BOTH parents!  Never ask a child to choose between their parents!  What were you thinking Dr Phil?  Looking forward with great interest to the show!
 
May 8, 2006, 8:46 am CDT

Religious Police?

Quote From: macrae222

I may be opening a can of worms  here but I can not help how passionate I am about this subject.I feel there should be some kind Of religious police!  

We talk about abuse of children,what is worse than a brain washing cult!  

My grandfather always taught me there was only one God and  he or she was loving god.  

Since I have grown up I feel I don't understand how some groups can actually brain wash people but I know how it works!  

If you cant feel your own feelings and speak what you feel in your heart how is this a religion?I am surprised it is legal to allow children to be treated this way and I'm surprised it's legal.Especially those studs with more than 1 wife.Its illegal to hit a child in the classroom or say the Lords prayer ,why can young children have religion shoved down there throats at home when its not religion but  wrong moral teaching and abuse!Teaching people everyone else but their religion are bad people is abuse no matter how you put it.  

Last time I looked, I believe American's have the freedom to worship anyway they choose and to also inculcate that belief system in their children as long as it is not harming them in any way.  Just because a religion is a bit different from the accepted norms they are labled a cult.  Many of todays accepted religions were once thought of as cults when they first started.  These girls look healthy to me.  I think what is harming them the most and causing most of the problem is the conflict between the parents.  Michael has a right to teach his beliefs to his daughters as does Michele.  Neither parent should be undermining the other.  This does not mean Michele has to support Michael's religious ideals but she should not undermine or degrade his beliefs to the children. 
 
May 8, 2006, 10:33 am CDT

About Molly and her sister

Quote From: wintrywood

Last time I looked, I believe American's have the freedom to worship anyway they choose and to also inculcate that belief system in their children as long as it is not harming them in any way.  Just because a religion is a bit different from the accepted norms they are labled a cult.  Many of todays accepted religions were once thought of as cults when they first started.  These girls look healthy to me.  I think what is harming them the most and causing most of the problem is the conflict between the parents.  Michael has a right to teach his beliefs to his daughters as does Michele.  Neither parent should be undermining the other.  This does not mean Michele has to support Michael's religious ideals but she should not undermine or degrade his beliefs to the children. 
Remember Jones town?Instead of killing people in this case their killing their free spirit! (My Opinion) this religion caused a lot of problems and I believe the girls would be better of to choose without guilt where they want to be and what they want to do! I do beleive this religion has them quite confused along with every thing else.And I still say it is a cult for the vunerable.
 
May 8, 2006, 10:58 am CDT

brilliant idea

Quote From: macrae222

I may be opening a can of worms  here but I can not help how passionate I am about this subject.I feel there should be some kind Of religious police!  

We talk about abuse of children,what is worse than a brain washing cult!  

My grandfather always taught me there was only one God and  he or she was loving god.  

Since I have grown up I feel I don't understand how some groups can actually brain wash people but I know how it works!  

If you cant feel your own feelings and speak what you feel in your heart how is this a religion?I am surprised it is legal to allow children to be treated this way and I'm surprised it's legal.Especially those studs with more than 1 wife.Its illegal to hit a child in the classroom or say the Lords prayer ,why can young children have religion shoved down there throats at home when its not religion but  wrong moral teaching and abuse!Teaching people everyone else but their religion are bad people is abuse no matter how you put it.  

Brilliant idea, however one always faces the problem of who is right and who is wrong.  As a christian we believe (no, we know) that there is only one God.  As a muslim they believe, no know, that their god is right.  However, what is sickening is that this sexual obsessed men - proven by their many wifes and dominating behaviour - base their so-called religion - on the Bible.  They twist the truth to suite their own needs.  The problem with these religions is that they more often than not, turn into horrible mishaps, unhappiness and mostly in death (inside & outside).  Go to www.amw.com and see that one of your most wanted persons committed unacceptable crimes in the name of religion.  At least, we live in the most dangerous country in the world (South Africa - where else), here they kill in Johannesburg alone 9000 people a month - in the name of evil and not the false pretense of some cult or the other.  Police them if you want to keep your company in tact.  These children could not make a choice - not that they had no choice, but purely because of the fear of their choice.  That's how these cults operate - choose yes or no, but remember God said you MUST choose xxx or else you will be punished by His 'personally' called prophets or whatever they call these obsessive monsters.  Do not be fooled by the answers of the girls but look at their reaction and eyes when they make their choice.
 
May 8, 2006, 11:03 am CDT

You must be joking

Quote From: jaider

I challenge the idea that these girls are being brainwashed.  Your use of the word brainwashing communicates your disapproval of the influence of a religious group that you think to be illegitimate. I agree that religious groups can have a heavy influence over their members but the use of the word brainwashing suggest that powerful means of manipulation are being used to control. The brethren group the oldest girl joined happens to believe in what is called believers baptism. What that means is that one does not become baptized and become a member of the church until they reach the age of accountability and can make the choice freely on their own. Often times, even though the children have been raised in this environment all of their life, they never become members. Not a very good job of brainwashing . Are the children brainwashed by their parents and religion? No. Are they influenced? Yes. 

Brainwash has quite a few faces to it.  Here's the guarenteed lotto numbers: xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx and the quarenteed payout is USDollar 10mil.  Now, you have a choise: Play or not.  And then in a wisper voice: If you don't play and share the winnings with me, this...that...this will happen to you.  That, my dear freind is brainwash also.  It's very clear that the children were told that they have a choise between mom and dad (sick choice by nature!), however if you choose mom then this and that will happen to you and this and that will be taken from you.....!  And what's worse - all in the name of God!  Not the real God, but the God they invented to be able to manipulate, rule and own other human beings as in an effort to hide their own shortcommings.  That's brainwash!!
 
May 8, 2006, 12:35 pm CDT

Good answer

Quote From: helgaana

Brainwash has quite a few faces to it.  Here's the guarenteed lotto numbers: xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx and the quarenteed payout is USDollar 10mil.  Now, you have a choise: Play or not.  And then in a wisper voice: If you don't play and share the winnings with me, this...that...this will happen to you.  That, my dear freind is brainwash also.  It's very clear that the children were told that they have a choise between mom and dad (sick choice by nature!), however if you choose mom then this and that will happen to you and this and that will be taken from you.....!  And what's worse - all in the name of God!  Not the real God, but the God they invented to be able to manipulate, rule and own other human beings as in an effort to hide their own shortcommings.  That's brainwash!!
     Very well said!
 
May 8, 2006, 12:41 pm CDT

Brainwashing goes two ways

Quote From: helgaana

Brainwash has quite a few faces to it.  Here's the guarenteed lotto numbers: xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx and the quarenteed payout is USDollar 10mil.  Now, you have a choise: Play or not.  And then in a wisper voice: If you don't play and share the winnings with me, this...that...this will happen to you.  That, my dear freind is brainwash also.  It's very clear that the children were told that they have a choise between mom and dad (sick choice by nature!), however if you choose mom then this and that will happen to you and this and that will be taken from you.....!  And what's worse - all in the name of God!  Not the real God, but the God they invented to be able to manipulate, rule and own other human beings as in an effort to hide their own shortcommings.  That's brainwash!!
And the other side of the coin:

"You have a choice: Join whatever religion you believe is true–"and then in a whisper—"If you do join, they will take away all your freedoms and brainwash you and you'll turn into this totally religious nut without any ability to think for yourself. You'll. Never. Get. Out."

Who is to say one side is brainwashing and the other is not?

Also, it is remarkable how many unquestionable facts you seem to have mined from those trailers. "It's very clear the children were told such and such." You then proceed to criticize not the statements actually made, but the ones you suppose must have been made, referring to those as brainwash. Wouldn't be more informative for you to criticize the actual facts, rather than your own fantasies about the story?
 
May 8, 2006, 1:36 pm CDT

Free Choice?

How does one make a free choice when there is FEAR involved.  These girls made choices based on how their father would react to them.  Michael controls people with fear, if you are afraid of me, then you will do what I want you to do.  Not much free choice there.  He plays psychological mind games with people, making them believe that he will punish them if they don't do what he wants them to do.  We all do things to a certain extent because of fear..... hot stove - fear of burning our  hands....... do your homework/behave - fear of what our parents will either do to us or think of us.  He manipulated his CHOICES to fulfill his sickening and abusive needs. 
 
May 8, 2006, 4:20 pm CDT

Ironic, amazing

Quote From: macrae222

I may be opening a can of worms  here but I can not help how passionate I am about this subject.I feel there should be some kind Of religious police!  

We talk about abuse of children,what is worse than a brain washing cult!  

My grandfather always taught me there was only one God and  he or she was loving god.  

Since I have grown up I feel I don't understand how some groups can actually brain wash people but I know how it works!  

If you cant feel your own feelings and speak what you feel in your heart how is this a religion?I am surprised it is legal to allow children to be treated this way and I'm surprised it's legal.Especially those studs with more than 1 wife.Its illegal to hit a child in the classroom or say the Lords prayer ,why can young children have religion shoved down there throats at home when its not religion but  wrong moral teaching and abuse!Teaching people everyone else but their religion are bad people is abuse no matter how you put it.  

We need religious police for these brainwashing cults? Please allow me to tell you some things about the brainwashing cult that Michael and his oldest daughter joined. I’m not talking about the Hutterites here. I’m not as familiar with them but I do know they share some similar beliefs and both are part of the Anabaptist heritage. The brethren church they are part of has a long established history. They are Christian peace loving people who would go out of their way to help anyone. They go to work, school, eat, sleep and raise family’s just like everyone else. They believe in their ways just like you believe in yours. They teach their children their ways but do not force or manipulate their children into their church anymore than any other Christian people do. Their desire is that their children will become part of their church family but they strongly believe it must be of their own free will. In fact, I know they sometimes discourage their children from joining if they think the child is to young or immature to make that kind of decision. Some grow up and join other churches and some join no church at all. If you still want to maintain they are a brainwashing cult that is your choice but most people that interact and know these people would disagree. I can say that with a good deal of confidence because I don’t think Social Services or Child Protective Services would entrust children to a brainwashing cult that victimizes children. Do you? In case you didn’t get that, let me ask you the question again. DO YOU THINK SOCIAL SERVICES OR CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES WOULD HAND OVER CHILDREN TO A BRAINWASHING CULT THAT VICTIMIZES CHILDREN? I didn’t think so. Several family’s of this church foster children. Some have also adopted. Sometimes the foster parents even get frustrated because the CPS pressure them into taking on more children. The CPS know that these are trustworthy people who will provide a loving, stable environment for the children, and believe me, the children need it desperately. It is kind of ironic that these people who almost never divorce, never put their children through a custody battle and put great emphases on strong family relationships would be accused of victimizing children. Simply amazing. 

 
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