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Topic : 05/10 Finding Allene and Mollie, Part 2

Number of Replies: 912
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Created on : Friday, May 05, 2006, 07:02:03 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
A tense family drama continues. Dr. Phil sent private investigator Harold Copus thousands of miles through three countries, including the jungles of Belize, to find 15-year-old Mollie and 13-year-old Allene who were abducted by their father one year ago. Now, join the tearful reunion between the girls and their mother, Michelle. Then, Dr. Phil sits down with Michelle and her husband, Michael. Find out why he says, “You could cut the tension with a knife.” What happens when Michael is confronted about the kidnapping? Next, hear from Hutterite religious leader Peter Hoover who was instrumental in bringing Michael and the girls back to America. But was he honest the first time he was on the show? Did he aid and abet Michael in accomplishing the abductions? Then, follow the girls as they go back home. How will they deal with returning to American teenage life? Join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.

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May 8, 2006, 8:13 pm CDT

Just wondering

Quote From: cwalczak

I don't believe that is what I was talking about.... and in that psalm I believe that it is referring to awe, wonder,  and respect of a power hard to comprehend.   That is not as simply translated as you have made it, or at least that is not what I have been led to believe.   The fear that the father of these 2 girls is evoking is terror and not AWE.   You have made it all seem so superficial,  I don't respect others who expect me to follow out of FEAR and not out of what is GOOD and RIGHT.  The bottom line is that this man has made his choices based on his own selfish agenda, and not out of what is good or right.  

I would like to know how you are so sure that the father evoked terror on those girls and what the intent of his heart was when he ran off.  You have the right to your opinion, I'm just wondering how you got there.
 
May 9, 2006, 1:07 am CDT

There are many types of abuse

Quote From: macrae222

I may be opening a can of worms  here but I can not help how passionate I am about this subject.I feel there should be some kind Of religious police!  

We talk about abuse of children,what is worse than a brain washing cult!  

My grandfather always taught me there was only one God and  he or she was loving god.  

Since I have grown up I feel I don't understand how some groups can actually brain wash people but I know how it works!  

If you cant feel your own feelings and speak what you feel in your heart how is this a religion?I am surprised it is legal to allow children to be treated this way and I'm surprised it's legal.Especially those studs with more than 1 wife.Its illegal to hit a child in the classroom or say the Lords prayer ,why can young children have religion shoved down there throats at home when its not religion but  wrong moral teaching and abuse!Teaching people everyone else but their religion are bad people is abuse no matter how you put it.  

 Ok, religious police is a bit far fetched and scary.  But I do agree that in society, the only abuse taken seriously is physical abuse.  Children are not removed from their home because their parents yell at them 24-7, or because their parents never hug them.  It's a fine line, and it's almost impossible to differentiate as to what is abuse and what is not.  But there is definitely some blantant abuse that is going on which is not being prosecuted.  Both by individuals and religious groups as well.  Sometimes this is due to the fact that a religious group has a lot of political clout.  The community I come from is one of those.  It's the worst kept secret that the boys there get only about a 2nd grade education, most of them can barely write a grocery list or a thank you note, but no one does anything about it.  Is that abuse?  Absolutely!
To those who say that the girls weren't brainwashed, that the hutterites would never force a child to join, I disagree.  The hutterites do not hide the fact that they feel women should cook and clean, and nothing else.  They don't hide the fact that in their society women are 2nd class citizens.  Tell any typical American kid that the religion they're about to join believes those things, and we'll see how many will sign up.  Also, tell the typical kid that they shouldn't live with their mother because of their religion and we'll see how popular it will be.
Some say this is not a cult.  Could be that because of my history I have a very broad definition of what a cult is.  To me, if the religion puts conditions on parental love, e.g. they only love you as long as you follow the religion, if it puts religion before family, if individuality is the sin of all sins, if there is a stirct dress code, if the children are isolated to the point that they have difficulty functioning in society if they were to choose to leave, those are some factors that I would  consider  to be signs of a cult.
 
May 9, 2006, 3:24 am CDT

My opinion

Quote From: jaider

I would like to know how you are so sure that the father evoked terror on those girls and what the intent of his heart was when he ran off.  You have the right to your opinion, I'm just wondering how you got there.

Of course I don't truely know what his heart was anymore than anyone else,  my comments are based on previous actions over the course of many, many years.  His actions, by my standard were abusive and cruel, I would not want my daughters living with him.  I believe that you can tell alot about people by the way they treat their loved ones. That comment you read was directed toward "wintrywood"  who tried to redirect my comment about fear, and turn it into the fear of God, which was not was I was talking about.     

 
May 9, 2006, 8:23 am CDT

ALLENE AND MOLLIE

ITS PLAIN TO SEE THAT ALLENE AND MOLLIE BOTH LOVE THEIR MOTHER, BUT IF ITS ONLY GOING TO CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR THE GIRLS, THEN I THINK IT SHOULD BE UP TO THEM TO LIVE WHERE THEY WANT TO, AS LONG AS THEY ARE LOOKED AFTER AND LOVED AND NOT PRESSURED INTO LIVING A LIFE STYLE THEY ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH. THE MOTHER SAID THAT SHE WILL DO WHAT SHE HAS TO TO MAKE SURE THAT HER EX DOESN'T GET THEM AGAIN. SHE SHOULDN'T SAY "WHEN I GET CUSTODY OF THEM" BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T KNOW THAT SHE WILL. IF IT IS LEFT UP TO THE GIRLS, THEN I BELEIVE THAT THEY WILL CHOOSE TO LIVE WITH SOMEONE ELSE. AND IF THE MOTHER LOVES HER GIRLS, THEN SHE WILL LET THEM CHOOSE WHERE THEY WANT TO LIVE, IF THATS POSSIBLE. IF NOT SHE IS GOING TO PUSH THEM AWAY. I HOPE THE GIRLS GET TO LIVE WITH WHOMEVER THEY WISH TO, AS LONG AS THEY ARE CARED FOR, LOOKED AFTER, AND LOVED, AND IS ALLOWED TO LIVE THE LIFE STYLE THEY CHOSE FOR THEMSELVES. I WISH THEM THE BEST OF LUCK!!!!!
 
May 9, 2006, 9:54 am CDT

They don't know what they want!

I am sorry, but I don't think these girls have any clue what they TRULY want!!  They have been ripped away from their home and their mother and have only heard what their father and their religion has to say.  I am sure they are confused, and scared to say what they really feel for fear of hurting their dad or getting him into trouble.  They may not have been brainwashed but it is clear that they have been heavily influenced in how they should think and feel!
 
May 9, 2006, 3:42 pm CDT

Love

Quote From: time2heal2

ITS PLAIN TO SEE THAT ALLENE AND MOLLIE BOTH LOVE THEIR MOTHER, BUT IF ITS ONLY GOING TO CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR THE GIRLS, THEN I THINK IT SHOULD BE UP TO THEM TO LIVE WHERE THEY WANT TO, AS LONG AS THEY ARE LOOKED AFTER AND LOVED AND NOT PRESSURED INTO LIVING A LIFE STYLE THEY ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH. THE MOTHER SAID THAT SHE WILL DO WHAT SHE HAS TO TO MAKE SURE THAT HER EX DOESN'T GET THEM AGAIN. SHE SHOULDN'T SAY "WHEN I GET CUSTODY OF THEM" BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T KNOW THAT SHE WILL. IF IT IS LEFT UP TO THE GIRLS, THEN I BELEIVE THAT THEY WILL CHOOSE TO LIVE WITH SOMEONE ELSE. AND IF THE MOTHER LOVES HER GIRLS, THEN SHE WILL LET THEM CHOOSE WHERE THEY WANT TO LIVE, IF THATS POSSIBLE. IF NOT SHE IS GOING TO PUSH THEM AWAY. I HOPE THE GIRLS GET TO LIVE WITH WHOMEVER THEY WISH TO, AS LONG AS THEY ARE CARED FOR, LOOKED AFTER, AND LOVED, AND IS ALLOWED TO LIVE THE LIFE STYLE THEY CHOSE FOR THEMSELVES. I WISH THEM THE BEST OF LUCK!!!!!
 I love my son, but I wouldn't let hime live wherever he wants to.  Not now, and not when he's 15.  That's ludicrous.
 
May 9, 2006, 5:33 pm CDT

Agreed

Quote From: tammbo2

I am sorry, but I don't think these girls have any clue what they TRULY want!!  They have been ripped away from their home and their mother and have only heard what their father and their religion has to say.  I am sure they are confused, and scared to say what they really feel for fear of hurting their dad or getting him into trouble.  They may not have been brainwashed but it is clear that they have been heavily influenced in how they should think and feel!
I so strongly agree with you on this one - these 2 girls are of what age???  and yes taken from their home with the only adult interaction in 12 months being the father and the religious groups which is why I therefore believe that as above maybe brainwashed maybe not but MOST DEFINITLEY INFLUENCED by others.  It is really a sad situation that they would not like to live like normal kids of their age
 
May 9, 2006, 5:52 pm CDT

Allene and Mollie

Though it is unfair and very unfortunate that this father is very short-sighted, I think that he joined this religious group in an effort to "leave society". I think he also did this in a way that would tear these girls away from their mother.  The saddest thing and most difficult for them to overcome will be the BELIEFS they have now ingrained in them - beliefs that they are on a different spiritual level from the rest of the world because they "know better" than to be worldly. Beliefs that this is the path God has chosen for them and beliefs that make them suspicious of anything that is worldly. They will have to make a conscious decision to leave the group of people they identify with and with whom they feel understood and loved, in order to be with their mother. They would have to choose education even though this group denounces it as worldly.  It doesn't matter if the Mennonites are considered a "peaceful" group, they have their own prejudices and they have very human inclinations - to leave them is a choice and to leave that way of life is to denounce what they consider important to enter heaven.  These girls need support and love that probably exceed what this mother can truly give them.  They all need professional intervention with someone who specializes in this type of situation - and that will be a huge challenge to find.
 
May 9, 2006, 5:57 pm CDT

Mother of teens

Personally, I think the fact that the mother is trying to make sure the father is prosecuted for doing this is going to come back to haunt her. It won't suprise me one bit, when one or both of the daughters will absolutely turn off the spicket or brick the wall so to speak - to cut off all ties with the mother. 

  

The mother will project  this behaviour onto the "cult" when in reality, it is a result of her actions, behaviour and demeaning their choices that are not necessarily bad choices. Would she rather them be pregnant? I think so. The things she said about what they wear, the constant manipulation tactics only reinforce one thing - CONDITIONAL love. They NEED UNCONDITIONAL love right now and this is really going to bite her bad. 

 
May 9, 2006, 6:02 pm CDT

05/10 Finding Allene and Mollie, Part 2

Quote From: wintrywood

Last time I looked, I believe American's have the freedom to worship anyway they choose and to also inculcate that belief system in their children as long as it is not harming them in any way.  Just because a religion is a bit different from the accepted norms they are labled a cult.  Many of todays accepted religions were once thought of as cults when they first started.  These girls look healthy to me.  I think what is harming them the most and causing most of the problem is the conflict between the parents.  Michael has a right to teach his beliefs to his daughters as does Michele.  Neither parent should be undermining the other.  This does not mean Michele has to support Michael's religious ideals but she should not undermine or degrade his beliefs to the children. 

Neither parent should be undermining the other.  This does not mean Michele has to support Michael's religious ideals but she should not undermine or degrade his beliefs to the children.  

  

I agree......as long as the mother undermines and degrade this belief, she will be able to BLAME the cult for the daughters NOT wanting a relationship with HER  - INSTEAD of herself! 

 
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