Topic : Setting Boundaries

I am in a situation with a soon to be step child that just turned 11 yesterday.  Her mother died when she was 17 months old.  Her father and I found out a few months ago that she has been telling people lies about me and my daughter.  This child has always been one on one with her father, told him what they were eating, where they were going, where he was taking her whether it be the movies, bowling, camping, etc.  Her life was whatever she wanted and she got it. There were no rules and if he asked something of her and she didn't want to do it, she told him no. 

As far as the lying goes...my fiance' FINALLY approached his daughter about her lies, he didn't believe me at first, but she admitted she was doing this.  The problem is, he NEVER did anything about it.  There were no consequences for her actions so now several months down the road, social services was called into school, there is a teacher at the school that has befriended her and fallen right into her lies, the grandmother is involved, she involved her father's family and yet NO ONE has said ONE thing to either her father or I.  We found out about the social services issue because Hailey got scared and told her dad.  He was devestated.  His response to this was to cut off contact with her grandmother.   It's grandma's fault.  I told him that she is responding to the stories she has heard from her grandaughter, do not be so quick to blame everyone else.  I also found out after talking to my faince's sister last night on the phone for the first time in a LONG time that she has told everyone there that I am mean too and that Hailey's grandfather purposely omitted my children from his Christmas to punish me because of it.  This teacher, who I might add is not even Hailey's teacher but a mother of one of her classmates, she has sent letters to my fiance's father, called Hailey's grandmother (her mom's mom) on the phone when they called in Social Services, but NEVER ONCE called US to talk with us.  I feel it is some sort of defamation of my character and it hurts me.  IF they truly feel there is a problem, WHY is no one coming to us?  Social Services didn't even call on us, the counselor said it's probably because they didn't feel a need to, that they didn't feel there was a problem.  But I feel a need to be heard here.  How do you let a child purposely deface you based on lies? 

We have been going to counseling and the counselor told us that Hailey has never had any consequences for her actions.  That she is obviously upset that Dad's attention is not 100% devoted to her anymore.  She can't handle someone else being in his life so she will get attention any way that works.  The lies have worked for her so she uses it.  She told us that Hailey needs to decide in which manner to do this BUT she must go to the people she lied to and admit her mistakes.  She can write a letter, talk face to face, whatever works for her but she MUST step up and "own her mistake."  The first time her father tried to do this three weeks ago, he never followed through, she sat in front of the TV and just rode him out, he never made her do it.  This time she had to stay in her room, she stayed there three daysand wrote letters but they were lies on top of lies, then her father caved.  His response to me was "how long should she stay in her room?"  I told him to remember what the counsleor said, she stays UNTIL she gets the job done.   Remember, this is not a child who has ever been told no and never been disciplined.  The biggest thing is you need to be consistent.  She needs to know you are in control.  You will not just give up because she didn't do what was expected of her. Unfortunately for us, my fiance knows this but didn't follow through and now he must start all over, that is if he will.  I am thinking it may be the end for us, then she wins.  But like the counselor says, she doesn't win, she loses.  We tried Hailey in counseling first but all she said was her dad needs to spend more time with her and she is scared of me.  I'm thinking that the reason she is scared of me is she hears me call my kids on their actions, I don't scream and hollar but I do face it with them and she has never had anyone do that with her.  I have never disciplined her because that is not my place.  I think she is scared of me because I am on to her.  When the counselor suggested that all three of us come in and talk, Hailey wanted no part of it, the counselor said that after talking with me and seeing the big picture, it is because Hailey can't sit in a room with me and talk about this because she knows she will be busted.  SHe told me Hailey is very manipulative and that her father needs to get a grip on this before this really escalates. 

Stand your ground, it won't be easy, but she needs to know that you are the parent, you do not say and do things to harm her and that there are consequences for her actions.  If she has to sacrifice her privledges, and they are not given back until she follows through and EARNS them back, then she will see that you mean business and will not just give up stating "nothing works".  It DOES indeed work, I know this because I have three children, 19, 16 and 6.  It's hard but it's a must and once you get this established, many other things fall in place too. 

Good luck to you! 

I have tried to explain to my fiance' as has the counselor that if this issue is not dealt with, that she will only escalate it and things will be terribly bad.  He says he understands, agrees with every counseling session we have been to, agrees on what the counselor tells him to do and then goes home on a mission to complete this and then doesn't follow through.  Last night I cooked supper, has the table set, he walked in, showered and left with his daughter to go eat, no good bye, nothing.  He is vindictive this way so I try not to let it bother me but it does.  How can people treat each other like this? 

I told him this morning that I spoke with his sister last night and he was heading out the door to work, he said, yeah, what was said?  All I could think was there is no way I can condense a 3 1/2 hour conversation into 5 minutes so I'm not even trying.  Off to work he went. 

Hailey always blames everyone else.  It's never her fault.  She has one good friend at school and one pen pal.  All her other friends she fights with on and off.  It's always "they did that to me" or "they are mad at me and I didn't do anything wrong".   

She's very "smooth and a sweet talker" with older people.  VERY much so.  Her Aunt said the same thing to me last night.   

I'm at my wits end.  Tomorrow is the next counseling session, I highly doubt this man will go, I just don't see it, that's the way he is.  What is he going to say, I didn't follow through again?  No, the counselor will tell him again to follow through and he will say okay and he won't, so I feel like the best thing to do is leave this mess.  NO one is happy in the house right now and it's been this way for months.  The stress is unbelievable and I have lost 13 pounds in the last three weeks.   

I just need some help here on what to do. 

Your comment about the police, she won't call them on her dad, it will be me she does it to.  I haven't heard where she's said anything too negative about him, it's all aimed at me and my 16 year old daughter.  Maybe if it was directed at him he would respond to it. 

I already mentioned to her father, what if she says someone touched her inappropriately or something?  He thinks I'm nuts. 

With the going to dinner without saying anything was that a punishment?  He sounds very manipulative.  His daughter is learning this from him.  Tell me about why he left with his daughter for dinner without telling you.  Were you both arguing? He is teaching his daughter that manipulation is the way to get what you want in life and offers little accountability.  I think in therapy you really need to tell him that what he is doing is abusive behavior.  His job is to guide his daughter into developing a healthy and happy attitiude toward people and relationships.  When she is creating anger and manipulation she is telling everyone she is out of control.  She obviously has tumultuous relationships with other children.  When she reaches 12 or 13 she is going to become extremely defiant toward him because he is not setting boundaries for her.  This is abuse and neglect.  He does not have the right to do this with her.  His needs are being met in some way or he would not encourage manipulation with her out of guilt.  He should set boundaries that if she lies there is a consequence and follow through.  She will first ignore it and it may take days even weeks to get through to her but once the heiarchy is established this behavior may subside to some extent.  I would tell him that he is not showing love to his daughter by not setting boundaries this is actually abuse.  I would also reevaluate your relationship with this man.  If there is a lot of stress now there is going to be 10 times more stress when she becomes an adolescent. 

You both have to be on the same page with regard to parenting and if he sabatoges your authority with this girl I think this is a deal breaker.  He is using his daughter to not respect you.  The counselor will eventually tell him that in order for counseling to work he has to take the steps necessary to develop authority with this girl.  He may recomend individual counseling for him. 

I think you need to tell him that if he can't be supportive of your needs and the needs of his daughter it is time to reevaluate the relationship.  I believe you said you are not married yet.  If she is making up stories about your daughter you also have a the obligation of protecting her.  So don't marry him until you straighten all of this out.  This daughter will become defiant and turn on her father.  She will probably turn on you too.  Hailey is a girl that utilizes manipulation to get what she wants.  Is her mother involved?  It sounds that maybe her mother has rejected her in some way and her dad feels extreme guilt for it.  He has to not feel guilt because it is clouding his judgment and enabling her to developing very destructive coping strategies with regard to interpersonal relationships.  I would talk to the therapist about what I have told you and talk to your fiance (husband) about some of the issues I see that are going on here.  This will bring out some of these issue into the open so you can discuss them safely. 

Thank you for your response! I cannot tell you how much it meant to me to hear someone validate my feelings. 

Hailey's mom died when she was 17 months old.  Now, her mom and dad were married but not together as a couple as her mom was having an affair, I'll just stop at that. 

She had a heart condition and Dean does feel guilty because he feels if he would have taken her to the doctor, she might be alive and it's not that they would be together as a couple, but Hailey would have a mom.  I have tried to explain to him that it is not his fault, that she was an adult and that she had a heart condition all her life and she knew how to take care of herself.  She also knew how to go to a doctor.  He says I know, but I don't think it sets in.  Dean and his wife had not been intimate in months before her death but they  were still living in the same house. 

Last night was Hailey's birthday, we have four kids in this house, three are mine and 1 of his.  In the past, when Dean gets mad, he will up and take Hailey out to eat, kind of like "screw you" and it really upsets my children.  I have confronted him on this and he admits to doing it once which we all know is a lie because we have asked Hailey how her meal was when they returned and she says "great."  I always feel like there are double standards here, she pulls for his attention and the fool then does something like this.  Every child's birthday, we do dinner together, cake, presents and spend the evening together as a family.  What REALLY kills me is that Hailey supposedly says we ignore her as a family member and yet what the heck was this??  They obviously had this planned, Dean must have felt REAL guilty for trying to discipline her, so here, let's go to dinner and just you and I will spend the evening together, screw Karen and her family...So, what he said with his actions was, I'm mad at you, don't know why because it wasn't me who fell apart parenting my child and didn't follow through...I'm mad at you and here, stick this up your butt, my daughter deserves special treatment over what we do for your children on their birthdays. 

I wanted to clarify the issue of telling him about my conversation with his sister the night before, I didn't tell him about the conversation before he was leaving so there wasn't time to talk, but to let him know that we needed to discuss this.  My son Chris told me this morning that this issue has been bothering him so bad that he sat in the living room last night trying to talk with Dean, he went as far as to tell me he had to keep taking "deep breaths" in order to get his comments out.  This saddend me so deeply, this is my child, NOT the fixer of MY problems.  This is completely out of control.  Knowing my son like I do, he loves Dean to death but this has to be killing him emotionally because he would NEVER step up and just say something.  Again, I need to talk with my children. 

I will talk with the counselor tomorrow, your comments have given me some strength and I can't tell you how good that makes me feel.   

I think it's time for me to eat something, it's been two days of no food due to this stress and I can't take this anymore.  Just the smell of it makes me ill. 

The last two nights, Dean has slept on the couch, by HIS choice.  I'm sure his daughter knows that too.   

The frustration, hurt and anger that I am feeling inside is starting to consume me.  I can't take a breath, I have to take deep breaths, light headed, can't concentrate, I know these are all signs of anxiety and depression, I want my life back.  I want the peace and comfort back in my life before my children and I  moved into this house.  It's time I take the steps once and for all. 
I had told Dean, this won't heal over night and it might take a LONG time, however, he has to be consistent and as long as I see his consistency, I will staqnd by him, it's when he pulls this crap and then tries to put the blame on someone else, maybe to take it off himself, that I get furious. 

Again, I can't thank you enough for your "boost" it gave me strength and I will take it counseling tomorrow and see what our counselor has to say. 

Thank you for your response! I cannot tell you how much it meant to me to hear someone validate my feelings. 

Hailey's mom died when she was 17 months old.  Now, her mom and dad were married but not together as a couple as her mom was having an affair, I'll just stop at that. 

She had a heart condition and Dean does feel guilty because he feels if he would have taken her to the doctor, she might be alive and it's not that they would be together as a couple, but Hailey would have a mom.  I have tried to explain to him that it is not his fault, that she was an adult and that she had a heart condition all her life and she knew how to take care of herself.  She also knew how to go to a doctor.  He says I know, but I don't think it sets in.  Dean and his wife had not been intimate in months before her death but they  were still living in the same house. 

Last night was Hailey's birthday, we have four kids in this house, three are mine and 1 of his.  In the past, when Dean gets mad, he will up and take Hailey out to eat, kind of like "screw you" and it really upsets my children.  I have confronted him on this and he admits to doing it once which we all know is a lie because we have asked Hailey how her meal was when they returned and she says "great."  I always feel like there are double standards here, she pulls for his attention and the fool then does something like this.  Every child's birthday, we do dinner together, cake, presents and spend the evening together as a family.  What REALLY kills me is that Hailey supposedly says we ignore her as a family member and yet what the heck was this??  They obviously had this planned, Dean must have felt REAL guilty for trying to discipline her, so here, let's go to dinner and just you and I will spend the evening together, screw Karen and her family...So, what he said with his actions was, I'm mad at you, don't know why because it wasn't me who fell apart parenting my child and didn't follow through...I'm mad at you and here, stick this up your butt, my daughter deserves special treatment over what we do for your children on their birthdays. 

I wanted to clarify the issue of telling him about my conversation with his sister the night before, I didn't tell him about the conversation before he was leaving so there wasn't time to talk, but to let him know that we needed to discuss this.  My son Chris told me this morning that this issue has been bothering him so bad that he sat in the living room last night trying to talk with Dean, he went as far as to tell me he had to keep taking "deep breaths" in order to get his comments out.  This saddend me so deeply, this is my child, NOT the fixer of MY problems.  This is completely out of control.  Knowing my son like I do, he loves Dean to death but this has to be killing him emotionally because he would NEVER step up and just say something.  Again, I need to talk with my children. 

I will talk with the counselor tomorrow, your comments have given me some strength and I can't tell you how good that makes me feel.   

I think it's time for me to eat something, it's been two days of no food due to this stress and I can't take this anymore.  Just the smell of it makes me ill. 

The last two nights, Dean has slept on the couch, by HIS choice.  I'm sure his daughter knows that too.   

The frustration, hurt and anger that I am feeling inside is starting to consume me.  I can't take a breath, I have to take deep breaths, light headed, can't concentrate, I know these are all signs of anxiety and depression, I want my life back.  I want the peace and comfort back in my life before my children and I  moved into this house.  It's time I take the steps once and for all. 
I had told Dean, this won't heal over night and it might take a LONG time, however, he has to be consistent and as long as I see his consistency, I will staqnd by him, it's when he pulls this crap and then tries to put the blame on someone else, maybe to take it off himself, that I get furious. 

Again, I can't thank you enough for your "boost" it gave me strength and I will take it counseling tomorrow and see what our counselor has to say. 

I am glad that I could be a objective ear for you.  I really hear that you love him and I think it is important for both of you to maybe go out to dinner and talk this out.  I think it might be important you both to get couples counseling before you both get married.  I see a pattern with him sabataging relationships.  I don't know why but he seems to be using his daughter to manipulate you and he is teaching her that is how you get people to do what she wants.  I can see how hurt your family is. Your children have feelings in this too.  I don't think he realizes his actions are hurting them also. 

Just talk to your counselor and see if you both can't go to counseling together to talk.  IF he won't go try to go to a place where both of you can talk alone.  It sounds like you know what it is you want out of him as well as yourself. You want to have a close and loving relationship that is consistant and you both coparent your children together.  He cannot be on a different page and expect  peace and harmony in the family.  If you ever need to talk email me ebeadit@sbcglobal.net 

Well, just when you think things can't get much worse, WRONG again. 

We went to counseling yesterday, of course this man defended his actions of taking his daughter to dinner for her birthday.  He claims there was TOO much tension in the house.  Well who does he think put that tension there???  I told him in front of the counselor that HE is setting the pattern for his daughter's behavior, that HE is the one that needs to stop this vindictive "I'll show you" behavior and WHAT did he think he was showing Hailey EXCEPT 'you can do whatever you want if you can come up with a reason to put the blame on someone else".  I asked him WHY he never thinks about how his actions or decisions are going to effect the people around him before he makes them and WHY do I ALWAYS think that way, even when I am angry and could very easliy aim at him?  I am starting to hate myself for that and I guess I can "blame" my parents for setting that standard in my life when I was a child.  Counseling was VERY heated this time and Dean broke down crying several times.  I told him he was DONE taking advantage of me and my children and I was extremely upset that I allowed my children to be placed in a situation of such stress and turmoil.  My daughter, who Hailey has also attacked, she is an honor student at school, her grades have plummeted and she is constantly sick.  I am coming down on her to get it back together and yes, she has to go to school, sick or not, she cannot let her grades go like this.   Then I get upset with myself because I know I am the one who put her here.  I'm sacrificing my children for this mess?  Long and short of the entire meeting yesterday want that again, Hailey's father and I were to make an attempt to sit down and talk to her, he would do the majority of the talking, I would be the "soft person", then Hailey MUST follow through and get these letters out.  We MUST go to talk to this teacher friend she has confided in at school and get this lady straightenend out.  Basically everything we have agreed to do the last 4 meetings and it never gets done.  I told Dean that maybe if the attacks were aimed at him, maybe he would deal with it then and NOT feel guilty for having his daughter take responsibility for her actions.  This is not a game, this is her life, this is her as an adult, this is SO VERY IMPORTANT that he step up and do his job here.   

I went home and called my grandmother, this lady is like a mother to me, she has helped me through to this point if anything to be an ear to listen to.  She is also a step mom to my mother, so the step child thing is not something new to her.  At any rate, I was filling her in on what had happened in counseling and I see my daughter calling me on the other line...it was 2:00 and I figured that she was calling me to tell me she was sick again.  I continued to talk with my grandmother and she called several more times, I told my grandmother that something must be going on for her to be calling like this, over and over.  I answered her call and sure enough, she tells me she was pulled from class so that she could meet with a Social Worker in regards to Hailey and her accusations of being locked in her bedroom.  She missed 40 minutes of school because of it.  I thought I was going to get sick.  I hung up the phone, called Dean to get him home from work and called Social Services asking them to contact that worker and PLEASE have her come to our home BEFORE she left town.  We live 45 minutes away from the main office and it was Friday and all I could think was here are yet MORE accusations and we won't be able to say a word about them.  WHY would nobody come to us when this all started?  They all went around us.  This teacher has even gone as far as to send a letter to Dean's FATHER, anonomously of course, call Hailey's grandmother but NEVER ONCE bothered to contact Dean.  He went in to the school last time SS was called in and talked with the teachers, then he fell right into Hailey's lap, coddled her, spent extra time with her, etc.  The counselor told him, NO, be very very careful because the accusations she made are false and if you don't handle this correctly, she will do this again.  Well, that's when the letter writing issue came up, where she had to write and fix her false accusations.  Now we're being accused of "locking her in her room."  You know, the kid's room is a palace and if we wanted to be mean, we could have stripped the room of all her "extras" and left her bed and clothes in there.  The point was to teach her she cannot go around lying about people, acting the victim and getting attention for it.  Well, doesn't look like she learned a thing, not anything correct anyway, I do think she learned that SS is people who will BELIEVE her and help her to get the attention back.  The funny thing of it is, it's now on DEAN!  Now it's her DAD that is the bad guy.  Needless to say, he is irate at this point.   

I told Dean he needed to contact his father who is on vacation for the next few weeks, tell him what is happening  here.  We already know Hailey has talked to him about "her idea of how hard her life is".  Dean called him and they got into a fight at first.  Dean's father told him he is "brain washed" by me.  He told Dean MORE of what he heard and Hailey has been telling people she has to cook her own meals too, that she is always sick, her stomach hurts, that her grandmother supposedly told her there is blood in Hailey's stool.  My thought was, WHY is that lady checking Hailey's stool?  This grandma is a hypochondriac and I mean bad.  SEVERAL times she has had Hailey convinced she has some terrible disease and has even taken Hailey to the hospital twice for a simple yeast infection from swimming in a pool and not changing into dry clothes afterwards.  The hospital!   Dean has begged this woman to stop and now he finds out she has been passing information like this around??  By the time Dean finished with his father, he said he thought his father might be seeing the light here.  I asked him if he point blank told his father that she has admitted her lies, he said he was so upset, he concentrated at what was being thrown at him and did not get to mention that. 

I left last night, I had to get out of here.  Both of my older children were gone and I took my 6 year old and left the house for a couple hours.  I sat with my son at the local McDonalds and ALL I can think about is the mess at home.  This is robbing me of my thoughts and feelings with my own children.   

Prior to leaving last night, I told Dean to be careful, reminded him of his actions the last time SS was called in and told him NOT to fall into this again.  I also told him to keep his ears open with her because the last time this happened, she TOLD him they talked to her, my guess is she will NOT tell him this time. 

I came home a couple hourse later and Dean, Cameron and I spent a little time together.  Cameron needed it and I needed it.  Dean said Hailey NEVER mentioned a word about what went down at school, that just made him angrier.  I asked him to make a list of what he intended to get across to Hailey during this three way talk. I have decided that I will not say anything except to back him up, this was his issue to straighten out and I need to continue to sit back and just support him, but I need to be present this time, not have it secret one on one.  I also told him that I felt she would NOT say a word because I was sitting there, he agreed.  She has NEVER had to sit down with both of us, it's always been him and her, one on one in privacy.  I suggested he then take this as a making statement session. Make his statement on what he expects from her, explain to her what she needs to do and why and that we all want to move forward here but we need to make sure this issue is resolved once and for all.  We can't go forward until she repairs the damage she has caused.  I also mentioned that he might want to contact his siblings and bring them up to date.  They have been listening to lies from her for a LONG time and they need to know the truth.  He agreed.  I told Dean that my daughter metioned that she asked the SS worker if she felt Hailey was abused and she told Kristin that she thinks Hailey's feelings are "genuine" but she doesn't know where they are coming from.  She also asked whether I ever disciplined Hailey and Kristin told her that I asked her to clean her room ONE time in a year and that no, I do not do that, that Dean does that, IF HE DOES IT AT ALL, he falls back then and never follows through. 

We need to get on the right page but ignoring this issue is not it.  Dean finally appears to be ready to go to bat here.  He is pacing back and forth, he does that when he is worked up, I hope he stops soon or we'll need new carpet!  Just kidding.   

I'm trying very hard to stay positive but last night I started to ask myself, has too much damage been done to repair this?  Am I emotionally finished with this relationship? I don't know,  I'm know I'm numb at this point.  I want to leave, but I know she wins, I want to leave, but I know I have to stand behind Dean and support him through this. I want to leave because it would be easier, not the packing and moving part but getting my life back, I want to leave, but I can't, because I love him.